Armies Of Helaman

[prisonchaplain]

cool. :-) (huge sigh of relief)

SORRY>>>I just needed a cyber hug, today. LOL

[GayLDS]

O.k. I am new to this forum and stuff but I just had a thougth occur to me that I thought was interesting:

So general conferance time is just around the corner yeah?! And we all know what that means right, protesters. I was wondering if you guys thought that there would be anything wrong with getting to temple square before the protesters with a couple hundred freinds of mine and taking all of the spots that the protesters take so there is nowhere as visable for them to protest... Thoughts please!

Hi Hocobo! I'm new to this board also! I've been to conference several times. I see the protestors, and I see the different reactions to their opinions. I've seen sister missionaries singing right in front of the protestors. I've seen late teens or twenty-something guys get agitated and start yelling and threatening to beat them up. I've seen conference goers try to debate, and yet they always fail miserably. Why? Because you can never sway an opinion if someone truly believes in what they preach (some members of the church are prime examples: Apostles)

I personally believe that the best way to deal with them is to deal with the 'problem' would be to ignore them. When no one reacts to their messages (yes a burnt fetus may be quite offensive) then their objective begins to fail. I think if they where completely ignored they would leave. But what you have now is over-zealous saints reacting to their passion and embarrassing themselves.

I also think it sets a dangerous precedent by preventing the protestors from doing just that. You forget the term 'free agency'? All persons are free to believe whom and what they will. They are also (in America) free to voice that opinion. Though hurtful, the words of the protestors are never fatal. So think about that. If you were in a reverse position and felt strongly about a topic you'd want other people to hear it, wouldn't you? Think of them as missionaries, with an unusual method of spreading their 'gospel'.

Hope my opinion helps someone.

[shanstress70]

<div class='quotemain'>

O.k. I am new to this forum and stuff but I just had a thougth occur to me that I thought was interesting:

So general conferance time is just around the corner yeah?! And we all know what that means right, protesters. I was wondering if you guys thought that there would be anything wrong with getting to temple square before the protesters with a couple hundred freinds of mine and taking all of the spots that the protesters take so there is nowhere as visable for them to protest... Thoughts please!

The best thing to do is ignore them. Or you can sing hyms to help contrast who the real Christians are: Video Time

PS.

It's Army of Helaman (not plural).

Don't hate me, but I'm going to take another side here. What did that guy do that was so horrible? He thinks you guys are going to hell for what you believe. If you thought that about someone, would you try to help them? Do you send missionaries to peoples' homes? Even when they ask you not to come back? And that isn't public property... it's private. I expected to see him saying really ugly things, insulting LDS, but he really didn't. If I missed it, please tell me. Wrong or right... he's concerned and he's doing what he thinks God would want him to do. He thinks that to stay quiet, he is denying God and doing you guys a disservice.

I guess it all depends on whether he's on LDS property or public property. I'm not sure what the answer is to that question.

[Doctor Steuss]

<div class='quotemain'>

The best thing to do is ignore them. Or you can sing hyms to help contrast who the real Christians are: Video Time

PS.

It's Army of Helaman (not plural).

Don't hate me, but I'm going to take another side here. What did that guy do that was so horrible? He thinks you guys are going to hell for what you believe. If you thought that about someone, would you try to help them? Do you send missionaries to peoples' homes? Even when they ask you not to come back? And that isn't public property... it's private. I expected to see him saying really ugly things, insulting LDS, but he really didn't. If I missed it, please tell me. Wrong or right... he's concerned and he's doing what he thinks God would want him to do. He thinks that to stay quiet, he is denying God and doing you guys a disservice.

I guess it all depends on whether he's on LDS property or public property. I'm not sure what the answer is to that question.

Do you not see what is in his companion’s hands? Those are something that LDS feel is sacred to their religion. Do you not see the sign (Liars Deceivers Seducers)?

Would it be ok if he was standing outside a Jewish synagogue with a sign that had an acronym demeaning Jewish people while waving around Bigdei Kodesh, and shouting at them as they walked by peacefully going to their religious service?

If you see nothing wrong with the approach that his ilk takes, and see it as equivalent to the approach that LDS missionaries take, then I don’t know what to say.

Edited to add:

I don't hate you, BTW. I don't even hate them. I'm to forgive all men (D&C 64: 10), but it does boggle my mind how people can look at the tactics of these people (these are the same types that used to call newlywed LDS brides "whores" before the city passed legistlation keeping them out of the area) and equate them with the LDS missionary tactics.

[shanstress70]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

The best thing to do is ignore them. Or you can sing hyms to help contrast who the real Christians are: Video Time

PS.

It's Army of Helaman (not plural).

Don't hate me, but I'm going to take another side here. What did that guy do that was so horrible? He thinks you guys are going to hell for what you believe. If you thought that about someone, would you try to help them? Do you send missionaries to peoples' homes? Even when they ask you not to come back? And that isn't public property... it's private. I expected to see him saying really ugly things, insulting LDS, but he really didn't. If I missed it, please tell me. Wrong or right... he's concerned and he's doing what he thinks God would want him to do. He thinks that to stay quiet, he is denying God and doing you guys a disservice.

I guess it all depends on whether he's on LDS property or public property. I'm not sure what the answer is to that question.

Do you not see what is in his companion’s hands? Those are something that LDS feel is sacred to their religion. Do you not see the sign (Liars Deceivers Seducers)?

Would it be ok if he was standing outside a Jewish synagogue with a sign that had an acronym demeaning Jewish people while waving around Bigdei Kodesh, and shouting at them as they walked by peacefully going to their religious service?

If you see nothing wrong with the approach that his ilk takes, and see it as equivalent to the approach that LDS missionaries take, then I don’t know what to say.

I don't hate you, BTW. I don't even hate them. I'm to forgive all men (D&C 64: 10), but it does boggle my mind how people can look at the tactics of these people (these are the same ones that used to call newlywed LDS brides "whores" before the city passed legistlation keeping them out of the area) and equate them with the LDS missionary tactics.

No, I truly did not see what is in the other guy's hands. Let me look again. I also didn't see the sign. Sorry, but I'm trying to post in between cooking dinner. Maybe I take back my words. Let me see...

[Doctor Steuss]

No, I truly did not see what is in the other guy's hands. Let me look again. I also didn't see the sign. Sorry, but I'm trying to post in between cooking dinner. Maybe I take back my words. Let me see...

I would honestly have no problem if they were just standing there, handing out pamphlets or something. But to sit there with temple garments, and a sign, shouting and demeaning while people are trying to maintain the spirit of Christ they just received during a semi-annual religious meeting is wrong IMO.

[shanstress70]

Yep, I watched it again and saw that he was holding undergarments. I didn't pay attention to it before and thought he was just holding some scarf or something... you probably don't believe that, but I seriously thought that. After you pointed it out though, I see how obvious it was.

Also, in my own defense, that sign isn't visible for most of the video.

If it weren't for those two things, would you see my point at all? Once again, not saying I agree with what he's doing, but do you see what I was saying?

[Josie]

If you check into the back ground of this problem, I believe you will find that many of these protestors are paid to be there and doing it for the money, and been given scripts, signs, etc.

I appreciate the Churches stand, asking members not to fight or get involved with them in any way.

Big reasons of having the missionaries there singing is one to drown out to some extent what they are yelling, and to keep other members away from them. Members were getting angry when they saw them slinging around garments and trying to take them away from them and fighting with them over it because of their sacredness.

I think the singing is a great idea. The missionaries might be roped off to protect them. Not sure.

Josie

[Doctor Steuss]

Yep, I watched it again and saw that he was holding undergarments. I didn't pay attention to it before and thought he was just holding some scarf or something... you probably don't believe that, but I seriously thought that. After you pointed it out though, I see how obvious it was.

Also, in my own defense, that sign isn't visible for most of the video.

It’s all groovy. I apologize for getting all uppity. I have never been to a General Conference, but my brother went some years back. One of the street screechers… er, I mean preachers yelled at my little nephew that he was going to hell. I have several videos though of such things as the Book of Mormon being dragged on the ground by a string, people blowing their nose on garments, having signs that equate Mormons with child molesters, etc. So, the well is a bit poisoned for me in regards to these types of demonstrators and I tend to let my emotions get in the way of my mind sometimes. Hopefully you will be able to forgive me for that shortcoming.

If it weren't for those two things, would you see my point at all? Once again, not saying I agree with what he's doing, but do you see what I was saying?

I see what you’re saying, but I still think there is something completely different about going to a place of worship to target a particular group while they are assembled to worship, and what the missionaries do. Maybe I could see a little bit more of a similarity if the LDS missionaries knocked on a person’s (maybe a Catholic for example) door and started shouting about what doctrines of theirs were wrong, and how they had been deceived, etc. Or maybe if the LDS missionaries stood outside of your Methodist religious services waiting for you to exit and then shouting about how you were going to hell, etc.

It is not that they are trying to evangelize. I would be a complete hypocrite if I took offense for that. It is the how that I find distasteful.

BTW,

If you have had LDS missionaries that are coming back after you have told them not to, you should contact their mission president. They are acting against mission rules and need to be disciplined accordingly.

[prisonchaplain]

If you check into the back ground of this problem, I believe you will find that many of these protestors are paid to be there and doing it for the money, and been given scripts, signs, etc.

Are you sure about the pay part? It's my understanding that most of these fundamentalists consider these "short term missions" trips, and that they pay their own way. It may be that some of them have raised the money they need for the journey through donations. But, I doubt that many of these folks are salaried.

Still don't agree with the approach...but money is not the motivator here, imho.

[Doctor Steuss]

<div class='quotemain'>

If you check into the back ground of this problem, I believe you will find that many of these protestors are paid to be there and doing it for the money, and been given scripts, signs, etc.

Are you sure about the pay part? It's my understanding that most of these fundamentalists consider these "short term missions" trips, and that they pay their own way. It may be that some of them have raised the money they need for the journey through donations. But, I doubt that many of these folks are salaried.

Still don't agree with the approach...but money is not the motivator here, imho.

Some might be paid... if you believe this source (a Sister Missionary), that is:

One funny thing about these men is that they are paid to do this, and so when each Conference session started and everyone was inside, there was no one to yell at, so they'd put their signs and megaphones down and relax. This was an opportune time to chat. We called one anti-Mormon over who seemed to be our age and asked why he was here. He didn't really know. He was cold and "kind of wanted to get back home." He came all the way from the east coast. (I hope he got a big paycheck.) We noticed one more man who seemed mentally slower than the others. As everyone was entering the Conference Center, he was holding an arrow that said "False Prophet," but it was pointed at the man next to him who was also an anti-Mormon. When his partner noticed, he re-directed his arrow so it was pointing at the Conference Center. We chuckled. Now that it had died down we made eye contact with this man and smiled. He smiled back and waved as if he wasn't aware of what he was being asked to do. My companion and I had a break, so we went across the street, back to Temple Square, to warm up. Before our next shift we really prayed that our presence would have some kind of impact.

Without the Walls of Temple Square

I think the vast majority are unpaid though. I doubt someone would want a paycheck bad enough to do this.

[prisonchaplain]

I remember reading this before and thinking that she simply assumed these protestors were ordained and paid evangelical clergy. The vast majority of them are not. If there is a group, it may be that the leader is a minister. Even then, his pay would come to him whether he was at home counseling, preparing sermons and the like, or in SLC waiving signs and shouting at people.

[Doctor Steuss]

I remember reading this before and thinking that she simply assumed these protestors were ordained and paid evangelical clergy. The vast majority of them are not. If there is a group, it may be that the leader is a minister. Even then, his pay would come to him whether he was at home counseling, preparing sermons and the like, or in SLC waiving signs and shouting at people.

Methinks you are most-likely right.

[Jason]

Until someone provides evidence we can all examine, I think it's an absurd notion to think anyone is being paid to stand there and preach.

Methinks these yahoos actually get off on this, and do it for a rush.

[Doctor Steuss]

[...]

Methinks these yahoos actually get off on this, and do it for a rush.

Maybe they just need an Xbox 360. Or perhaps they haven't found the joys and rush associated with the carnage of chess.

[prisonchaplain]

Until someone provides evidence we can all examine, I think it's an absurd notion to think anyone is being paid to stand there and preach.

Methinks these yahoos actually get off on this, and do it for a rush.

I think it would be a fun missions trip for me to gather up some thoughtful evangelicals (maybe Bible college students), head off to the next LDS conference in SLC, and to do some witnessing work amongst the rabid fundamentalist protestors. I can imagine such an evangelistic encounter going something like this:

ME: God bless you, sir. Tell me, why are you waving those dirty underwear around? Is that something Jesus encourages?

PROTESTER: Mormon! God will judge you unless you come out . . .

ME: Excuse me, sir...but I'm not Mormon. By the way, do you know that Jesus loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life?

PROTESTOR: Listen, brother...if that's what you are...if you're a true Christian, you ought to help me win these cultists to Jeeeeezzzzzussss."

ME: There is a time and place for everything, King Solomon tells us. However, the Word also says that judgment begins in the house of God. This sin of yours--handling the undergarments of other religions...Brother, God is not pleased...

Like I said...it could be an interesting missions adventure.

[Doctor Steuss]

I think it would be a fun missions trip for me to gather up some thoughtful evangelicals (maybe Bible college students), head off to the next LDS conference in SLC, and to do some witnessing work amongst the rabid fundamentalist protestors. I can imagine such an evangelistic encounter going something like this:

ME: God bless you, sir. Tell me, why are you waving those dirty underwear around? Is that something Jesus encourages?

PROTESTER: Mormon! God will judge you unless you come out . . .

ME: Excuse me, sir...but I'm not Mormon. By the way, do you know that Jesus loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life?

PROTESTOR: Listen, brother...if that's what you are...if you're a true Christian, you ought to help me win these cultists to Jeeeeezzzzzussss."

ME: There is a time and place for everything, King Solomon tells us. However, the Word also says that judgment begins in the house of God. This sin of yours--handling the undergarments of other religions...Brother, God is not pleased...

Like I said...it could be an interesting missions adventure.

LOL! One of the apologists I correspond with on occasion once told me that one year there was a group of atheists protesting the protestors.

I imagine that the protestors probably saw that as further proof of just how heretical Mormons are. I mean, if atheists are willing to take your side…

[snipe123]

<div class='quotemain'>

I think it would be a fun missions trip for me to gather up some thoughtful evangelicals (maybe Bible college students), head off to the next LDS conference in SLC, and to do some witnessing work amongst the rabid fundamentalist protestors. I can imagine such an evangelistic encounter going something like this:

ME: God bless you, sir. Tell me, why are you waving those dirty underwear around? Is that something Jesus encourages?

PROTESTER: Mormon! God will judge you unless you come out . . .

ME: Excuse me, sir...but I'm not Mormon. By the way, do you know that Jesus loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life?

PROTESTOR: Listen, brother...if that's what you are...if you're a true Christian, you ought to help me win these cultists to Jeeeeezzzzzussss."

ME: There is a time and place for everything, King Solomon tells us. However, the Word also says that judgment begins in the house of God. This sin of yours--handling the undergarments of other religions...Brother, God is not pleased...

Like I said...it could be an interesting missions adventure.

LOL! One of the apologists I correspond with on occasion once told me that one year there was a group of atheists protesting the protestors.

I imagine that the protestors probably saw that as further proof of just how heretical Mormons are. I mean, if atheists are willing to take your side…

I would love to hold up a big huge sign with an arrow pointing in a way so that it is pointing at a protestor that says "Modern day Celsus" in reference to the early anti-CHristian writer who used terrible tactics similar to anti mormons of today...or I could stoop real low and make a sign with an arrow that says "I'm with stupid"

[Jason]

Better sign:

"You're all saved anyway...so everyone go home! :)"

[rosie321]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

I think it would be a fun missions trip for me to gather up some thoughtful evangelicals (maybe Bible college students), head off to the next LDS conference in SLC, and to do some witnessing work amongst the rabid fundamentalist protestors. I can imagine such an evangelistic encounter going something like this:

ME: God bless you, sir. Tell me, why are you waving those dirty underwear around? Is that something Jesus encourages?

PROTESTER: Mormon! God will judge you unless you come out . . .

ME: Excuse me, sir...but I'm not Mormon. By the way, do you know that Jesus loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life?

PROTESTOR: Listen, brother...if that's what you are...if you're a true Christian, you ought to help me win these cultists to Jeeeeezzzzzussss."

ME: There is a time and place for everything, King Solomon tells us. However, the Word also says that judgment begins in the house of God. This sin of yours--handling the undergarments of other religions...Brother, God is not pleased...

Like I said...it could be an interesting missions adventure.

LOL! One of the apologists I correspond with on occasion once told me that one year there was a group of atheists protesting the protestors.

I imagine that the protestors probably saw that as further proof of just how heretical Mormons are. I mean, if atheists are willing to take your side…

I would love to hold up a big huge sign with an arrow pointing in a way so that it is pointing at a protestor that says "Modern day Celsus" in reference to the early anti-CHristian writer who used terrible tactics similar to anti mormons of today...or I could stoop real low and make a sign with an arrow that says "I'm with stupid"

Prisonchaplin How could you even suggest such a thing?

This is just way too funny

You have me rolling on the floor laughing.

Stop it I've fallen and can't get up lol lol:excl:

When I can stop laughing hard enough you can have a

This is great :lol:

Do it. Do it! I double dare you.

You'd probably get some LDS funders for your cause, after all

and think of all the lessons you'd teach on world peace just for being "nice".

Thanks PC I really needed this

[prisonchaplain]

Rosie, you are your own rainbow coalition. LOL

[Jbs2763]

these jokers are not too different from those silly geese from "westboro baptist"

[shanstress70]

It’s all groovy. I apologize for getting all uppity. I have never been to a General Conference, but my brother went some years back. One of the street screechers… er, I mean preachers yelled at my little nephew that he was going to hell. I have several videos though of such things as the Book of Mormon being dragged on the ground by a string, people blowing their nose on garments, having signs that equate Mormons with child molesters, etc. So, the well is a bit poisoned for me in regards to these types of demonstrators and I tend to let my emotions get in the way of my mind sometimes. Hopefully you will be able to forgive me for that shortcoming.

Don't apologize... I understand completely after this post. Only absolute animals would do the things you talked about! I'm so sorry that happened, especially to your little nephew. I feel like an idiot for suggesting they thought they were doing the right thing... but really I was only talking about that one guy speaking. There is no excuse for the other crap.

However, as ugly as it is, it is free speech. Just like those Westboro freaks that was also mentioned in this thread... they have the right to say what they want to some extent. When does it become slander or harrassment though? Has there ever been any arrests on Temple Square on these grounds? It seems to me that if someone tells a child he's going to hell, that would be harrassment.

If you have had LDS missionaries that are coming back after you have told them not to, you should contact their mission president. They are acting against mission rules and need to be disciplined accordingly.

I know this is against the rules for missionaries (I used to be LDS), but they don't always follow it. This hasn't happened to me, but I know of a few people that it's happened to. It seems that current missionaries are aware, but don't always properly record it so that the next set of missionaries know not to come knockin'.

<div class='quotemain'>

Until someone provides evidence we can all examine, I think it's an absurd notion to think anyone is being paid to stand there and preach.

Methinks these yahoos actually get off on this, and do it for a rush.

I think it would be a fun missions trip for me to gather up some thoughtful evangelicals (maybe Bible college students), head off to the next LDS conference in SLC, and to do some witnessing work amongst the rabid fundamentalist protestors. I can imagine such an evangelistic encounter going something like this:

ME: God bless you, sir. Tell me, why are you waving those dirty underwear around? Is that something Jesus encourages?

PROTESTER: Mormon! God will judge you unless you come out . . .

ME: Excuse me, sir...but I'm not Mormon. By the way, do you know that Jesus loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life?

PROTESTOR: Listen, brother...if that's what you are...if you're a true Christian, you ought to help me win these cultists to Jeeeeezzzzzussss."

ME: There is a time and place for everything, King Solomon tells us. However, the Word also says that judgment begins in the house of God. This sin of yours--handling the undergarments of other religions...Brother, God is not pleased...

Like I said...it could be an interesting missions adventure.

This would be so awesome, PC. And to my LDS friends, if PC and I lived in SLC I could totally see us doing this as a tag-team, cuz that's just how much we care!