Fire in the Hole: A Trump teleprompted speech excoriating Hillary Clinton

[anatess2]

This is what has been missing from the Republican Party.  Gonads to skewer a Democrat.  They have no problem skewering their own but they've been on PTSD-mode against the Democrats fearing that they're going to be called Racist or Sexist.  Trump doesn't have that problem.  Even Republicans call him racist and sexist and he'll say what needs to be said anyway.

Here's the teleprompter transcript:

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trump-on-the-stakes-of-the-election

And here's how he delivered it.

 

 

Quotable quotes:

"I have always had a talent for building businesses and, importantly, creating jobs. That is a talent our country desperately needs. "

" The fact is, we can come back bigger and better and stronger than ever before --Jobs, jobs, jobs! "

" We will never be able to fix a rigged system by counting on the same people who rigged it in the first place. "

"Hillary Clinton who, as most people know, is a world class liar – just look at her pathetic email and server statements, or her phony landing in Bosnia where she said she was under attack but the attack turned out to be young girls handing her flowers, a total self-serving lie. Brian Williams’ career was destroyed for saying far less."

" Hillary Clinton has perfected the politics of personal profit and theft. "

"Hillary Clinton wants to be President. But she doesn't have the temperament, or, as Bernie Sanders' said, the judgement, to be president.  She believes she is entitled to the office.  Her campaign slogan is “I’m with her.”  You know what my response to that is? I’m with you: the American people.  She thinks it’s all about her.  I know it’s all about you – I know it’s all about making America Great Again for All Americans."

Lots and lots more good stuff in there.  Speech fees in exchange for removal of sanctions, Benghazi and the video, etc. etc. etc.

 

[tesuji]

At least as much negative could also be said about Trump.

Finding common ground and working together to find pragmatic solutions is better than lobbing artillery shells at the other side. Alas, the days of trying to understand the other side are gone:

Report: Partisan Bad Blood Highest In Decades 
http://www.npr.org/2016/06/22/482970864/report-partisan-bad-blood-highest-in-decades

No one side has a monopoly on goodness or on good ideas.

My hope is that at least among Mormons we can move toward Zion, toward becoming one, even as the world becomes even more divided by anger and pride and close-mindedness. 

 

Edited June 22, 2016 by tesuji

[anatess2]

7 minutes ago, tesuji said:

My hope is that at least among Mormons we can move toward Zion, toward becoming one, even as the world become even more divided by anger and pride and close-mindedness. 

 

The last 8 years is an exercise on how much we can divide this country.  Hillary will give you 4 more of those.  You should hope that Americans will make it possible for (at least) the Mormons to move toward Zion.

 

But then your comment gives the feeling that you never did really listen to/read the speech.  That's fine.

Edited June 22, 2016 by anatess2

[Just_A_Guy]

It'll be interesting to see whether Trump pulls any meaningful support from the Sanders supporters.  I'm skeptical.  I don't think the left, as a whole, really minds dishonesty--at least, not in their own candidates (frankly, Trump's presumptive nomination shows me that a critical mass of the right doesn't care about integrity any more, either--but I suppose that's not directly topical, at least in this thread).  Sanders' core appeal didn't come from people who thought he was honest and Hillary a liar; it came from folks who felt like Hillary's public service to date hasn't yielded enough free stuff for them individually.  I suspect that, confronted with Trump, most of them will come home to Hillary.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Just_A_Guy

[tesuji]

I saw your quotes, that was enough. I already know I don't trust anything Trump says.

The divisions in this country didn't start with Obama, but they certainly have been fanned during Obama by demagogues

Edited June 22, 2016 by tesuji

[anatess2]

9 minutes ago, tesuji said:

I saw your quotes, that was enough. I already know I don't trust anything Trump says.

The division in this country didn't start with Obama, but they certainly have been fanned during Obama by demagogues

Those quotes are not even 5% of the speech.

Here ya go.  Closer to Zion:  http://www.npr.org/2016/06/21/483018976/inside-trumps-closed-door-meeting-held-to-reassures-the-evangelicals

 

And just a piece of advise - it's difficult to learn anything unless you listen to the other side.  I'm not saying you should trust Trump.  I'm saying, there is going to be a new President of the USA and right now there are only 2 most likely ones.  Might as well know what these people are saying so you will have an idea of which of the 2 is more likely to hinder your trip to Zion.

Edited June 22, 2016 by anatess2

[tesuji]

4 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Those quotes are not even 5% of the speech.

Here ya go.  Closer to Zion:  http://www.npr.org/2016/06/21/483018976/inside-trumps-closed-door-meeting-held-to-reassures-the-evangelicals

And just a piece of advise - it's difficult to learn anything unless you listen to the other side.  I'm not saying you should trust Trump.  I'm saying, there is going to be a new President of the USA and right now there are only 2 most likely ones.  Might as well know what these people are saying so you will have an idea of which of the 2 is more likely to hinder your trip to Zion.

I realize what you are saying - part of the problem is people aren't listening to each other.  But I've listened to Trump enough and learned enough about him. He is a demagogue and a liar and a horrible person. If I watch that speech it will push my blood pressure to dangerous levels

It's not my Zion, it's the Lord's. Zion is becoming one in heart. Partisan fighting over worldly ideologies is going in the opposite direction.

[tesuji]

In case you think I'm just talking out of ignorance or close-mindedness when I say Trump is a liar, check out:

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

For more, just google "trump lies" for more fact checking analyses on his past speeches.

Google shows there are also already a lot of articles showing how much he has lied and distorted the truth in this speech about Clinton.

For example:

AP FACT CHECK: Trump's distortions on Clinton
http://bigstory.ap.org/a0eecb48c6c84aaa9cdad9141fbcd09c

 

Donald Trump gets lost beneath 'an avalanche of falsehoods'
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/donald-trump-gets-lost-beneath-avalanche-falsehoods

Edited June 23, 2016 by tesuji

[anatess2]

19 minutes ago, tesuji said:

 

It's not my Zion, it's the Lord's. Zion is becoming one in heart. Partisan fighting over worldly ideologies is going in the opposite direction.

Yet, it is these worldly ideologies that Zion has to stand upon as your article of faith clearly states - we are subject to kings, presidents, etc. etc.

And as is evident in everything politics - there are many different ideologies on how the country should be run.  You get to choose which of these worldly ideologies will support your trip to Zion so you can make your voice be heard on which one you want to be subject to.

And I will tell you right now... if your objective is Zion - becoming one in heart - you should try to avoid a Clinton presidency.

Edited June 22, 2016 by anatess2

[tesuji]

8 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Yet, it is these worldly ideologies that Zion has to stand upon as your article of faith clearly states - we are subject to kings, presidents, etc. etc.

And as is evident in everything politics - there are many different ideologies on how the country should be run.  You get to choose which of these worldly ideologies will support your trip to Zion so you can make your voice be heard on which one you want to be subject to.

And I will tell you right now... if your objective is Zion - becoming one in heart - you should try to avoid a Clinton presidency.

Zion will not stand upon or be supported by worldly ideologies. And Christ will head the government. Zion will be above what Republicans, Democrats, Communists, Capitalists, Socialists, etc have to offer. But we won't get there unless we live the gospel and become one in heart.

Edited June 22, 2016 by tesuji

[anatess2]

38 minutes ago, tesuji said:

Zion will not stand upon or be supported by worldly ideologies. And Christ will head the government. Zion will be above what Republicans, Democrats, Communists, Capitalists, Socialists, etc have to offer. But we won't get there unless we live the gospel and become one in heart.

Sure.  If you think the way there is by putting your head in the sand until Jesus comes again, then yeah, you don't have to face the reality of today.  As it is, we can't just sit and wait for the millennium.  We get to try to get closer to Zion through the Republicans, Democrats, Communists, Capitalists, Socialists, etc. who has the power to LIMIT OUR AGENCY and PEDDLE INFLUENCE TO DIVIDE THE COUNTRY.

 

 

Anecdote:  I feel like I'm talking to my Mother-in-Law...

MIL:  "Why are you buying a house when you already have one?"

ME:  "Because I bought my house when I was still single.  I have a husband and 2 kids now and we'll be more comfortable with more than 1,000sq ft."

MIL:  "You don't need to buy another house.  Jesus will come again and there wouldn't be need for big houses."

I kid you not.  I love her to death but I just couldn't understand the way she thinks.

Edited June 22, 2016 by anatess2

[tesuji]

I don't know why you assume I'm saying we should put our head in the sand until Jesus comes. Yes, it is our duty to vote as citizens in a democracy. But that is not going to bring about Zion.

The way to build Zion is to become a Zion people. It is not by fighting among ourselves as church members about worldly philosophies, which are merely the ideas of men. Our thinking and our actions must rise above worldly politics.

4 Nephi describes what we should be working towards, and also the account in Acts of how the early church members treated each other.

 

[anatess2]

2 minutes ago, tesuji said:

I don't know why you assume I'm saying we should put our head in the sand until Jesus comes. Yes, it is our duty to vote as citizens in a democracy. But that is not going to bring about Zion.

The way to build Zion is to become a Zion people. It is not by fighting among ourselves as church members about worldly philosophies, which are merely the ideas of men. Our thinking and our actions must rise above worldly politics.

4 Nephi describes what we should be working towards, and also the account in Acts of how the early church members treated each other.

 

I didn't say "Bring about Zion".  I said, "Come closer to Zion"... same as "become closer to a Zion people".

We are not fighting among ourselves.  Unless you're fighting.  Trump in that speech is telling us why Hillary Clinton is not fit to be President.  Campaigning for our chosen leaders does not negate working towards unity.  We are campaigning to bring other people to like-mindedness.  To show them our way is better.  To show them how the other guy will be detrimental to freedom.  It is these worldly politics that will make it DIFFICULT if not IMPOSSIBLE to live according to our conscience.  Therefore, I will continue to work towards putting good leadership in the countries that affect my sphere of influence in their quest to be closer to a Zion people.  It is quite difficult to think of eternal things when you don't have a job to support yourself.  It is quite difficult to think of unity when you have people trying to kill you.  I can choose to kumbaya all day that's fine.  I prefer to kumbaya at the same time making the environment conducive to Godly pursuits.

 

[tesuji]

55 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

We are not fighting among ourselves.  Unless you're fighting.  

Americans are fighting about politics. Congress is fighting rather than getting anything done. Trump and Clinton are fighting (yeah, it's a campaign, I know).

Mormons are getting too caught up in the partisan enmity in our country. I've heard too much in church meetings about politics. It's not heading us toward Zion.

I do object to political threads like this one. It's impossible usually to debate politics and keep the Spirit. For example, personally, even seeing this thread praising Trump made me angry enough I'm sure to lose the Spirit. Most any political discussion is going to make people angry or upset. Yes, we should vote, but not argue with other members about politics.

The reason there isn't more fighting here on my part is that I believe political debates are largely fruitless - most people are not going to change their minds and it just generates ill-feelings. How many people here will even look at the counter-Trump links I posted above?

 

Edited June 22, 2016 by tesuji

[LeSellers]

5 hours ago, tesuji said:

The divisions in this country … certainly have been fanned during Obama by demagogues

And chief among them, O'bama himself.

Lehi

[Just_A_Guy]

Is there some backstory here that makes this talk of Zion relevant?  Since when does the Church subcontract its divine imperatives out to Babylon?  

Because ultimately, now that its Trump or Hillary, that's all this election is about--whether Babylon will be personified over the next four years by a dishonest, corrupt, mildly sadistic, money-grubbing serial philanderer; or by a Clinton.

In fact, if you interpret the 10th Article of Faith as being about a physical city of Zion to be built in the political borders of the US and drawing on a global pool of saints for its population--well, only one current major presidential candidate would be amenable to the requisite influx of non-Americans; and it ain't Trump.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Just_A_Guy

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

whether Babylon will be personified over the next four years by a dishonest, corrupt, mildly sadistic, money-grubbing serial philanderer; or by a dishonest, corrupt, wildly sadistic, money-grubbing serial philanderer's enabler.

Fixed it for ya.

[LeSellers]

9 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

only one current major presidential candidate would be amenable to the requisite influx of non-Americans; and it ain't Trump.

It's not Clinton, either, since her goal is to import as many people who are not Saints as possible. Muslims are not likely (any time soon, at least) to convert to the Church of Jesus Christ. South Americans and Mexicans don' convert as readily as one might hope, and those who come illegally are not upholding and sustaining the law.

Further, while Trump has advocated building a wall to keep illegal aliens out, he had likewise advocated installing a "beautiful door" to allow legal aliens in. All this blather about his being a racist is poppycock: he's for upholding the law, not against people from other countries.

Lehi

[mordorbund]

19 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Closer to Zion:  http://www.npr.org/2016/06/21/483018976/inside-trumps-closed-door-meeting-held-to-reassures-the-evangelicals

I wonder how well that could go.

My experience with evangelicals is that they tend to frown on the idea of secret teachings.

[prisonchaplain]

sigh...I don't know why John 11:35 keeps coming to my mind, whenever I consider the election this year....

[Guest Godless]

I think Trump would be a much easier pill to swallow if we saw more speeches like this from him. As I've said before, it's not necessarily his stance on the issues that is off-putting to people, it's the over-the-top rhetoric he spews when he's off-script at his big rallies. That's the real Trump. That's the Trump that Democrats and many Republicans will do anything to keep out of office. The Trump in this video said several things that I don't agree with, but he did so in a way that doesn't deepen the cultural divide that rally Trump has dug time and again. So kudos to his speech-writer for that. He's not fooling anyone though. He's already shown his true colors to the American people. It will take many more speeches like this (and the debates) to convince me that the last 6+ months have all been an elaborate pandering act.

[unixknight]

18 hours ago, LeSellers said:

And chief among them, O'bama himself.

^This.  Nobody who supports Obama gets to whine about division between Americans. 

"We don’t mind the Republicans joining us. They can come for the ride, but they gotta sit in back."

-Barack Obama 25 October, 2010

When a sitting President talks like that, you know he's not looking to reach across aisles and find bipartisan solutions.  What kind of example does that set?  Say what you want about guys like Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton, they worked with the opposition party to get things done.

Well, at least I can agree with Trump when he says "Hillary Clinton is a world class liar."  Well, maybe not the "world class" part, since her lies are pretty easy to expose.  The problem is that the media doesn't like to report it, and Clinton's followers just don't care anyway. 

Edited June 23, 2016 by unixknight

[Just_A_Guy]

15 hours ago, LeSellers said:

It's not Clinton, either, since her goal is to import as many people who are not Saints as possible. Muslims are not likely (any time soon, at least) to convert to the Church of Jesus Christ. South Americans and Mexicans don' convert as readily as one might hope, and those who come illegally are not upholding and sustaining the law.

Further, while Trump has advocated building a wall to keep illegal aliens out, he had likewise advocated installing a "beautiful door" to allow legal aliens in. All this blather about his being a racist is poppycock: he's for upholding the law, not against people from other countries.

Lehi

*Shrug* The Church itself seems to have a different assessment on the potential that Latino and middle Eastern immigrants bring with them.

Trump has demanded the prerogative to use the office of the presidency to determine that entire religious or ethnic classes of immigrants are "illegal" (in his defense, the plain text of existing statute does allow the president to do this).  So let's spare ourselves the dog-and-pony show about Trump just wanting to enforce the law.  He plans to make laws--new laws--targeted against people he doesn't like.

As a Mormon, how sure are you that he likes us?

Edited June 24, 2016 by Just_A_Guy

[LeSellers]

To be clear, I do not support Trump. It just rankles when the popular lies spread by an antagonistic press get accepted as true. Like Tina Fey's parody of Sarah Palin's statement ("I can see Russia from my home state.") twisted and warped into "I can see Russia from my front porch." Uninformed people believe it was Palin who said it. And a huge number of people mis"quote" Trump based on the lies in the media.

11 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Trump has demanded the prerogative to use the office of the presidency to determine that entire religious or ethnic classes of immigrants are "illegal" (in his defense, the plain text of existing statute does allow the president to do this).

If it's according to law, then how does one claim that he's not trying to uphold the law?

This exact thing (a temporary ban on immigration based on a national threat) has been done a few times in the past, and not all that long ago, either.

One can be kind and generous to refugees without lowering his awareness that among them will likely be those who would do us harm.

Further, why do we have to bring them here when there is plenty of room on, say, Cyprus, where they could go back home, the chaos quelled? We avoid the problems inherent in bringing in large numbers of people who will drain our welfare state of resources, but who are totally incapable of assimilating into the USAan culture (witness the generations of Muslims and South American/Mexican who still have not).

11 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

As a Mormon [sic], how sure are you that he likes us?

As a Saint, I'm not too sure he does. I've read a speech or article of his that shows he doesn't know us very well, and what he does know is not accurate, and that he has based his opinion on those errors. But I also assume that he, like many before, on seeing who we really are, will learn to tolerate us (in the classic sense of the word, not the perversion in general use today), or even like and accept us as being the patriots we are.

11 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

The Church itself seems to have a different assessment on the potential that Latino and middle Eastern immigrants bring with them.

Perhaps. But it ain't happened recently. The Catholic Church boasted that we Saints assumed the incoming Mexicans would convert en masse. They have not. I'm sure there are more, but I've only heard of one Muslim-turned-LDS out of the thousands of Muslims who've immigrated here. It may be that I'm too impatient, but the cost of this process seems out of proportion to the foreseen benefit.

Lehi

[unixknight]

51 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

To be clear, I do not support Trump. It just rankles when the popular lies spread by an antagonistic press get accepted as true. Like Tina Fey's parody of Sarah Palin's statement ("I can see Russia from my home state.") twisted and warped into "I can see Russia from my front porch." Uninformed people believe it was Palin who said it.

Not just uninformed people.  Wolf Blitzer even repeated that one.  Ignorant or lying?  Can't tell.  What's even worse is when they resist the correction.

"Sara Palin said 'I can see Russia from my house!'"

"Palin didn't say that.  Tina Fey did."

"Oh no, Palin totally said that.  She's such an airhead..."

*facepalm*