What Does Malachi 4: 5-6 Mean?

[Guest]

On 7/21/2016 at 10:27 AM, anatess2 said:

Carb, this is another divergence in teaching between LDS and Catholic - Matt 16.  In LDS, it means death shall not prevail against revelation which then makes post mortal baptisms possible.  In Catholic it means death shall not prevail against Christ's atonement.  Christ's atonement then opened the gates of heaven to those who have died in righteousness before His atoning sacrifice.  So, limbo of the Fathers is where the righteous who died went before Christ's death on the cross.  So, if Elijah did die, this is where he would have gone until Christ's resurrection.

I don't see why you categorize this as divergence.  I see this as similar, or at least, parallel.

[anatess2]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

I don't see why you categorize this as divergence.  I see this as similar, or at least, parallel.

It is a divergence from the perspective of Catholics because the Catholics don't believe that salvific ordinances is available past death except for those who passed before Christ's atonement.  Baptisms for the dead, therefore, is heresy.

[DennisTate]

On 7/20/2016 at 2:57 PM, Carborendum said:

That's interesting.  I wonder what other sects say about this.

For one thing......  John the Baptist had parents who were relatives of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus' parents.....

So if John the Baptist can fulfill the role of the Elijah for that time period.....

without coming down out of heaven in a chariot.... the I assume that it is possible that an ordinary human

with human parents.... who grows to maturity in our time period could well be given the mantle of Elijah and play out the role of a modern

John the Baptist.........

I wonder if the modern John will be explaining a modern Yom Kippur type of event..... 

which could be significantly different than the life, death, burial and resurrection of Messiah the Passover Lamb.  

 

One question on my  mind is will... a major fallen angel / Watcher.....

repent and turn to the G-d of Abraham.....

divide the kingdom of Satan and cause it to fall???

 

but the goat on which the lot fell for Aza'zel shall be presented alive before the LORD to make atonement over it, that it may be sent away into the wilderness to Aza'zel.(Leviticus 16:10 RSV)

 

And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
(Matthew 12)

[mordorbund]

15 hours ago, DennisTate said:

For one thing......  John the Baptist had parents who were relatives of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus' parents.....

So if John the Baptist can fulfill the role of the Elijah for that time period.....

without coming down out of heaven in a chariot.... the I assume that it is possible that an ordinary human

with human parents.... who grows to maturity in our time period could well be given the mantle of Elijah and play out the role of a modern

John the Baptist.........

I wonder if the modern John will be explaining a modern Yom Kippur type of event..... 

which could be significantly different than the life, death, burial and resurrection of Messiah the Passover Lamb.  

You may be interested to know that when Joseph Smith was given his mission by an angel, the angel paralleled Gabriel's message by referencing Malachi. In short, Joseph Smith was to go forth in the spirit and power of Elijah and fulfill the portion of the Malachi prophesy that John left undone. 

[DennisTate]

6 hours ago, mordorbund said:

You may be interested to know that when Joseph Smith was given his mission by an angel, the angel paralleled Gabriel's message by referencing Malachi. In short, Joseph Smith was to go forth in the spirit and power of Elijah and fulfill the portion of the Malachi prophesy that John left undone. 

Wow!

Do you happen to know if Mr. Joseph Smith really.... gave the White Horse President prophecy?

If so then:

 

[mordorbund]

4 hours ago, DennisTate said:

Wow!

Do you happen to know if Mr. Joseph Smith really.... gave the White Horse President prophecy?

Joseph Smith did give a prophecy that the Constitution would one day hang by a thread, and if it is to be saved at all, it will be by the Latter-day Saints (some variations have it saved by the Elders of the Church). There is another prophecy attributed to Joseph Smith that incorporates this but adds apocalyptic elements (including the titular white horse). This White Horse prophecy is almost certainly spurious. More details can be found here.

[zil]

7 hours ago, mordorbund said:

spurious

...what you call a cowboy in a hurry; the state of a Pony Express rider while carrying out his duties.

[mordorbund]

10 hours ago, mordorbund said:

This White Horse prophecy is almost certainly spurious

 

3 hours ago, zil said:

...what you call a cowboy in a hurry; the state of a Pony Express rider while carrying out his duties.

Now I wish I had added a ^--SeeWhatIDidThere

[DennisTate]

14 hours ago, mordorbund said:

Joseph Smith did give a prophecy that the Constitution would one day hang by a thread, and if it is to be saved at all, it will be by the Latter-day Saints (some variations have it saved by the Elders of the Church). There is another prophecy attributed to Joseph Smith that incorporates this but adds apocalyptic elements (including the titular white horse). This White Horse prophecy is almost certainly spurious. More details can be found here.

Whether or not it is spurious..... I don't know but......

if voter fraud was the main reason for Mr. Mitt Romney being defeated in 2012....

then in the sight of G-d... .who knows all things... he would have been inaugurated President in 

January of 2013 and those four years were stolen from him.  

This possibility..... has at minimum Artistic Value... that can theoretically be 

transformed into having Economic Value as well.... because George Soros and others have been

quite public about their plans to devalue the USA petro- dollar.  

 

It can be argued that the USA constitution and economy.... are somewhat hanging by a thread .... right now!

[DennisTate]

6 hours ago, zil said:

...what you call a cowboy in a hurry; the state of a Pony Express rider while carrying out his duties.

Does your statement mean that like me.......

you personally take the White Horse Prophecy rather seriously?

[zil]

40 minutes ago, DennisTate said:

Does your statement mean that like me.......

you personally take the White Horse Prophecy rather seriously?

No.  Horse.  Spur.  Use spur to make horse go faster.  It was a word play on "spurious".

[Overwatch]

4 hours ago, DennisTate said:

Whether or not it is spurious..... I don't know but......

if voter fraud was the main reason for Mr. Mitt Romney being defeated in 2012....

then in the sight of G-d... .who knows all things... he would have been inaugurated President in 

January of 2013 and those four years were stolen from him.  

This possibility..... has at minimum Artistic Value... that can theoretically be 

transformed into having Economic Value as well.... because George Soros and others have been

quite public about their plans to devalue the USA petro- dollar.  

 

It can be argued that the USA constitution and economy.... are somewhat hanging by a thread .... right now!

Is George still alive?  What you are saying reminds of something Glenn Beck would say and we see what is happening there after his fallout with that rude young lady. I don't remember her name at the moment. Also I thought someone in the church said the white horse prophecy was not inspired. 

[DennisTate]

16 minutes ago, Overwatch said:

Is George still alive?  What you are saying reminds of something Glenn Beck would say and we see what is happening there after his fallout with that rude young lady. I don't remember her name at the moment. Also I thought someone in the church said the white horse prophecy was not inspired. 

And lots of Jews rejected Messiah Yeshua - Jesus but the White Horse Prophecy could well be

very relevant for our time period if in fact the 2012 election was stolen through fraud.  If Mark Taylor is correct.......

this will be revealed pretty soon.... so we may as well be ready for some surprises.... and yes... George is still alive and pretty active.

You can find out more about what he is doing by googling this title:

"George Soros: The United States Must Stop Resisting The Orderly Decline Of The Dollar, The Coming Global Currency And The New World Order"

[Overwatch]

1 minute ago, DennisTate said:

And lots of Jews rejected Messiah Yeshua - Jesus but the White Horse Prophecy could well be

very relevant for our time period if in fact the 2012 election was stolen through fraud.  If Mark Taylor is correct.......

this will be revealed pretty soon.... so we may as well be ready for some surprises.... and yes... George is still alive and pretty active.

You can find out more about what he is doing by googling this title:

"George Soros: The United States Must Stop Resisting The Orderly Decline Of The Dollar, The Coming Global Currency And The New World Order"

Haha are they still trying to do that new world order?  So dumb. Only person capable of running the world is Jesus himself (Yes I know he got crucified by choice)  

I am not worried as long as the saints don't become stupid. If we hold to our values and acknowledge the laws of God we'll be just fine. I also think repentance is being obedient so I am by no means expecting saints to be perfect, Jesus can expect that from us. 

I am not going to google it because it will just annoy me. He was already thwarted with the faulty electronic Hillary voting booths, the ones that "glitched" to not let people vote for Trump. They were all removed and new booths brought in when people complained. They were owned by a company funded by Jorge Soros himself. Anyway, he will just keep throwing his endless pile of money to the wind. We already know the corruption going on, it will just cave in on itself like it always does ex: People of Jared, The Nephites, Gadianton Robbers

Here is a quote. I am not really sure how to feel about the woman comment though.

[DennisTate]

22 hours ago, Overwatch said:

Haha are they still trying to do that new world order?  So dumb. Only person capable of running the world is Jesus himself (Yes I know he got crucified by choice)  

I am not worried as long as the saints don't become stupid. If we hold to our values and acknowledge the laws of God we'll be just fine. I also think repentance is being obedient so I am by no means expecting saints to be perfect, Jesus can expect that from us. 

I am not going to google it because it will just annoy me. He was already thwarted with the faulty electronic Hillary voting booths, the ones that "glitched" to not let people vote for Trump. They were all removed and new booths brought in when people complained. They were owned by a company funded by Jorge Soros himself. Anyway, he will just keep throwing his endless pile of money to the wind. We already know the corruption going on, it will just cave in on itself like it always does ex: People of Jared, The Nephites, Gadianton Robbers

Here is a quote. I am not really sure how to feel about the woman comment though.

Mark Taylor is asserting that some explosive information will soon be made available that will indicate that the 2012 election was actually stolen from Mr .Mitt Romney!

This is worth praying about.......... is it OK to give links to Mark Taylor's statements on this.... and some related articles indicating wide spread voter fraud back in 2012?

Edited July 8, 2018 by DennisTate
add a comment....

[Overwatch]

2 hours ago, DennisTate said:

Mark Taylor is asserting that some explosive information will soon be made available that will indicate that the 2012 election was actually stolen from Mr .Mitt Romney!

This is worth praying about.......... is it OK to give links to Mark Taylor's statements on this.... and some related articles indicating wide spread voter fraud back in 2012?

Hi Dennis,

If you have any concerns for wanting permission on the things you can look at the forum rules and also contact a moderator. I am just a visitor/ semi new member; I am not in any admin/mod roles. 

Thanks.

[SilentOne]

On 7/7/2018 at 6:11 PM, Overwatch said:

Here is a quote. I am not really sure how to feel about the woman comment though.

I believe he's saying King-men and King-women are running our governement.

[Overwatch]

2 hours ago, SilentOne said:

I believe he's saying King-men and King-women are running our governement.

ah, very well could be just that. I was thinking of king-men being clumped and women as a secondary group. Need to think more simply maybe.

[DennisTate]

On 7/19/2016 at 11:44 PM, Carborendum said:

I'm guessing you all know what this passage means to Mormons.  What does it mean to non-Mormons?

5 ¶ Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse."

 

My assumption is that just as John the Baptist was a unique individual.........

not Elijah in person sent down on a UFO or angelic chariot.... so also.... a human being in these latter days will

actually lead many Christians and Jews and people from many nations in a work that I do believe will fulfill the predictions given in the Catholic Bible.....

Ecclesiasticus chapter 48....

Quote

 Who broughtest down kings to destruction, and brokest easily their power in pieces, and the glorious from their bed. [7] Who heardest judgment in Sina, and in Horeb the judgments of vengeance. [8] Who anointedst kings to penance, and madest prophets successors after thee. [9] Who wast taken up in a whirlwind of fire, in a chariot of fiery horses. [10] Who art registered in the judgments of times to appease the wrath of the Lord, to reconcile the heart of the father to the son, and to restore the tribes of Jacob.

I don't know exactly what is all implied by the restoration of the tribes of Jacob / Yacob..... but I am thinking that the full meaning will affect many, many nations. 

 

I suspect that the final Elijah will somehow prepare people to accept..... not a Messiah the Passover Lamb as fulfilled by Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus..... but perhaps 

a Christian political Cyrus who will fulfill Isaiah chapter 45........ My apologies for whateve degree of error is there in my ideas on this.......?

 

My theory on this fits with:
 

 

I think that the man who I quote in post #6 named Eporu Ronald Alfred... has at least something of an "Elijah" calling on his life.......

the time is coming soon when the least Christian will have a considerable Elijah calling on their lives......

 

Matthew 11:11

Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

 

Edited October 2, 2018 by DennisTate
add quotation....

[DennisTate]

By the time coming when the least Christian will have a considerable John the Baptist calling on their lives.... I mean the time shown to near death experiencer Howard Storm.... around the year 2185 C.E. 

https://www.near-death.com/experiences/notable/howard-storm.html#a04

 

Quote

 

The image of the future that they gave me then, and it was their image, not one that I created, surprised me. My image had previously been sort of like Star Wars, where everything was space age, plastics, and technology.

 

The future that they showed me was almost no technology at all. What everybody, absolutely everybody, in this euphoric future spent most of their time doing was raising children. The chief concern of people was children, and everybody considered children to be the most precious commodity in the world.

 

And when a person became an adult, there was no sense of anxiety, nor hatred, nor competition.

 

There was this enormous sense of trust and mutual respect. If a person, in this view of the future, became disturbed, then the community of people all cared about the disturbed person falling away from the harmony of the group. Spiritually, through prayer and love, the others would elevate the afflicted person.

 

What people did with the rest of their time was that they gardened, with almost no physical effort. They showed me that plants, with prayer, would produce huge fruits and vegetables.

 

People, in unison, could control the climate of the planet through prayer. Everybody would work with mutual trust and the people would call the rain, when needed, and the sun to shine.

 

Animals lived with people, in harmony.

 

 

I assume that at this same time..... feeble residents of Jerusalem will be rather like King David.....

Zec 12:8

In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.

Edited October 2, 2018 by DennisTate
bold a sentence....

[DennisTate]

On 7/20/2016 at 10:29 AM, anatess2 said:

In Catholic tradition, Malachi 4 (in some Bibles , there's no Malachi 4 - rather, that chapter is in Malachi 3) talks of Elijah as returning to prepare mankind for the second coming of Christ in the same way that John the Baptist prepared the way for His first coming.

The description of the full role of the final Elijah in Ecclesiasticus chapter 48 is interesting:

 

http://www.drbo.org/chapter/26048.htm

Quote

 And Elias the prophet stood up, as a fire, and his word burnt like a torch. [2] He brought a famine upon them, and they that provoked him in their envy, were reduced to a small number, for they could not endure the commandments of the Lord. [3] By the word of the Lord he shut up the heaven, and he brought down fire from heaven thrice. [4] Thus was Elias magnified in his wondrous works. And who can glory like to thee? [5] Who raisedst up a dead man from below, from the lot of death, by the word of the Lord God.

Who broughtest down kings to destruction, and brokest easily their power in pieces, and the glorious from their bed. [7] Who heardest judgment in Sina, and in Horeb the judgments of vengeance. [8] Who anointedst kings to penance, and madest prophets successors after thee. [9] Who wast taken up in a whirlwind of fire, in a chariot of fiery horses. [10] Who art registered in the judgments of times to appease the wrath of the Lord, to reconcile the heart of the father to the son, and to restore the tribes of Jacob.

Blessed are they that saw thee, and were honoured with thy friendship. [12] For we live only in our life, but after death our name shall not be such. [13] Elias was indeed covered with the whirlwind, and his spirit was filled up in Eliseus: in his days he feared not the prince, and no man was more powerful than he. [14] No word could overcome him, and after death his body prophesied. [15] In his life he did great wonders, and is death he wrought miracles.

 

Edited October 8, 2018 by DennisTate
add to quotation....