Has KK and Planned Parenthood gone too far?

[NeedleinA]

22 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Is that shield/logo copyrighted by the Church? 

20 hours ago, Backroads said:

I believe Symbol Arts owns the copyright to the shield...

16 hours ago, Blackmarch said:

I get the feeling PP didn't sanction this- if they did they could be sued (and should be). 

15 hours ago, zil said:

Are we sure those are even legit? 

2 hours ago, Ironhold said:

Yeah - If these are real, then PP is going to get sued senseless unless they can prove that the use of the image falls under "Fair Use" law. 

I just saw this this morning from KSL.com news channel in Utah:

"Church spokeswoman Kristen Howey declined to comment on the issue other than to say that CTR is a registered trademark owned by the Church and its affiliated organizations. She said the Church did not give Planned Parenthood permission to use it...

...Randall Bateman, a registered patent attorney with Snow, Christensen & Martineau, said the trademark issue boils down to whether the organization's use of the logo creates "likelihood of confusion."

"If some percentage of the population would see that and think, 'Oh, these are somehow sponsored by the LDS Church or approved by the LDS Church, then that would be trademark infringement," Bateman said."

[Jane_Doe]

30 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

I just saw this this morning from KSL.com news channel in Utah:

"Church spokeswoman Kristen Howey declined to comment on the issue other than to say that CTR is a registered trademark owned by the Church and its affiliated organizations. She said the Church did not give Planned Parenthood permission to use it...

...Randall Bateman, a registered patent attorney with Snow, Christensen & Martineau, said the trademark issue boils down to whether the organization's use of the logo creates "likelihood of confusion."

"If some percentage of the population would see that and think, 'Oh, these are somehow sponsored by the LDS Church or approved by the LDS Church, then that would be trademark infringement," Bateman said."

And KK is a lawyer, so I'm guessing that she already knew basic copyright law, and how big of a blunder this could be...

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

And KK is a lawyer, so I'm guessing that she already knew basic copyright law, and how big of a blunder this could be...

Sometimes anger/hatred can blind one to reality and cloud one's judgment.

Edited July 27, 2016 by Guest

[zil]

3 hours ago, Ironhold said:

Yeah - If these are real, then PP is going to get sued senseless unless they can prove that the use of the image falls under "Fair Use" law. 

That's why I wondered if they were real, because you'd think that organization would have some sort of legal department vet this sort of thing.  I guess we'll see what happens.

Edited July 27, 2016 by zil

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, zil said:

That's why I wondered if they were real, because you'd think that organization would have some sort of legal department vet this sort of thing.  I guess we'll see what happens.

They sold baby parts and allowed living, breathing, crying babies to die of dehydration and starvation so they could harvest their organs and tissues for profit.  I don't think they have a legal department that thinks much of the law -- anyone's law.

Edited July 27, 2016 by Guest

[Traveler]

As bad as we may all think this is - one has to ask - who are they targeting with this campaign and why.  The real problem may not be with KK or PP but elsewhere.  They may be addressing the same problem many good parents are facing - or perhaps trying to ignore.

 

The Traveler

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Traveler said:

As bad as we may all think this is - one has to ask - who are they targeting with this campaign and why.  The real problem may not be with KK or PP but elsewhere.  They may be addressing the same problem many good parents are facing - or perhaps trying to ignore.

 

The Traveler

If you think the "problem" is teen pregnancy, then I disagree.  If you think the "problem" is teen sex, then this doesn't address it.  It encourages it.

[Backroads]

1 hour ago, Traveler said:

As bad as we may all think this is - one has to ask - who are they targeting with this campaign and why.  The real problem may not be with KK or PP but elsewhere.  They may be addressing the same problem many good parents are facing - or perhaps trying to ignore.

 

The Traveler

 

37 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

If you think the "problem" is teen pregnancy, then I disagree.  If you think the "problem" is teen sex, then this doesn't address it.  It encourages it.

 

Yes and yes. Tossing condoms at your teen and saying you've just fully taught safe sex is woefully inaccurate. But plenty of Mormon kids are out there having sex and someone needs to be discussing it with the kiddos.

[LeSellers]

31 minutes ago, Backroads said:

plenty of Mormon kids are out there having sex and someone needs to be discussing it with the kiddos.

They are, but it's not because no one is discussing it with them. Parents do (not all, but most), YM/YW leaders do, bishops do, stake president do, general authorities do.

If they aren't listening, it's not the faults of those who have undertaken to tell them that the only legitimate sex is with one's spouse.

Handing out condoms or any other form of birth control/infection protection sends the wrong message.

No one wants a young woman to get pregnant. No one wants a young man or a young woman to get a venereal disease. But if he does, that's a direct consequence of his breaking the Low of Chastity, not a lack of knowledge. That pregnancy or disease is not unique to the uninformed: every grtf-welfare school teaches the birds'n'the bees, and millions of their coerced inmates get pregnant and get infected every year anyway.

Lehi

[NightSG]

1 hour ago, LeSellers said:

Handing out condoms or any other form of birth control/infection protection sends the wrong message.

Not really any more than explaining to them that they're a lot better off calling me to come get them if they (or whoever is driving) get drunk.  I certainly hope it won't be an issue, but we've all been that age, and things do happen.  Refusing to prepare for those things doesn't keep them from happening.

Now, that's not to say they'd get a 12 pack every weekend; one, just in case, accompanied by a long talk about why it shouldn't be needed, and replaced when it expires.  If it needs replacing before it expires, then the long talk will have to get longer. 

Edited July 27, 2016 by NightSG

[Backroads]

2 hours ago, LeSellers said:

No one wants a young woman to get pregnant. No one wants a young man or a young woman to get a venereal disease. But if he does, that's a direct consequence of his breaking the Low of Chastity, not a lack of knowledge. That pregnancy or disease is not unique to the uninformed: every grtf-welfare school teaches the birds'n'the bees, and millions of their coerced inmates get pregnant and get infected every year anyway.

 

I believe there was a study done some years ago investigating  the results of various types of sex ed programs. Abstinence-only programs in schools are notorious for failure, but this study revealed that programs that avoided all discussion of abstinence did significantly worse in pregnancy/STD results.

Disclaimer: I feel the majority if not all of this talk ought to be up to the family and community of the young persons in question.

[Backroads]

1 hour ago, NightSG said:

Not really any more than explaining to them that they're a lot better off calling me to come get them if they (or whoever is driving) get drunk.  I certainly hope it won't be an issue, but we've all been that age, and things do happen.  Refusing to prepare for those things doesn't keep them from happening.

Now, that's not to say they'd get a 12 pack every weekend; one, just in case, accompanied by a long talk about why it shouldn't be needed, and replaced when it expires.  If it needs replacing before it expires, then the long talk will have to get longer. 

One of my friend's parents handled teen sex as such: We don't want you having teen sex. We have taught you the ins and outs of intimacy. The Church and the Lord expects you to wait. But, for the love of all that is good, if you decide you're going to bypass all this information, at least come to us so we can get started on a backup plan.

[Backroads]

2 hours ago, LeSellers said:

They are, but it's not because no one is discussing it with them. Parents do (not all, but most), YM/YW leaders do, bishops do, stake president do, general authorities do.

If they aren't listening, it's not the faults of those who have undertaken to tell them that the only legitimate sex is with one's spouse.

Handing out condoms or any other form of birth control/infection protection sends the wrong message.

No one wants a young woman to get pregnant. No one wants a young man or a young woman to get a venereal disease. But if he does, that's a direct consequence of his breaking the Low of Chastity, not a lack of knowledge. That pregnancy or disease is not unique to the uninformed: every grtf-welfare school teaches the birds'n'the bees, and millions of their coerced inmates get pregnant and get infected every year anyway.

Lehi

Lehi, I know how you feel about public schools, but I simply have to include them in this musing inspired by your post:

In this day and age, with the school sex ed programs and parents and friends not to mention our media renaissance where you can pretty much find out anything, there is honestly no good reason why any kid (or adult) in America should be getting pregnant or getting an STD, non-consensual sex excluded. Not one reason. You have to be a special kind of ignorant in this day and age.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, LeSellers said:

to the uninformed: every grtf-welfare school teaches the birds'n'the bees, and millions of their coerced inmates get pregnant and get infected every year anyway.

And another soapbox moment.

[Backroads]

Looks like Planned Parenthood is cancelling the condoms.

[Guest MormonGator]

2 minutes ago, Backroads said:

Looks like Planned Parenthood is cancelling the condoms.

Good move on their part. Maybe they saw that it bothered a lot of us and did the right thing. 

[LeSellers]

1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

Maybe they saw that it bothered a lot of us and did the right thing. 

It's hard to imagine Planned unParenthood's doing "the right thing", ever!

Lehi

Edited July 27, 2016 by LeSellers

[NightSG]

2 hours ago, Backroads said:

One of my friend's parents handled teen sex as such: We don't want you having teen sex. We have taught you the ins and outs of intimacy. The Church and the Lord expects you to wait. But, for the love of all that is good, if you decide you're going to bypass all this information, at least come to us so we can get started on a backup plan.

The way I look at it, like any safety device, it may make one a little more likely to take the associated risk, but I still wear a helmet on my bike nearly all the time, even just for the daily commute where I rarely top 20mph or leave paved roads.  I even generally keep condoms available, though the last few years it's been more to hand one to someone else who seems determined to do something they might regret later.

[Backroads]

A note on the original post and intention: to me it just seems a bit weird to go get "free condoms". It's like collecting the lousy free pens and flashlights at any other expo. What's wrong with paying for condoms? If you can't afford to buy condoms, do you really need to be having sex?

[Guest MormonGator]

3 minutes ago, Backroads said:

 If you can't afford to buy condoms, do you really need to be having sex?

Of course not, but life doesn't work like that. A businessman was once asked "Would you ever do business with someone who is unethical?" and his response was classic "A first year MBA student would refuse to do so, but life in the real world isn't always like that." 

Sometimes people are going to make bad decisions-like have sex and not be able to afford condoms. Like others have said, abstinence education doesn't work well. At our high school they tried talking to us about it while 85% of the class wasn't practicing it. It was a joke.

[NightSG]

2 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Sometimes people are going to make bad decisions-like have sex and not be able to afford condoms. Like others have said, abstinence education doesn't work well. At our high school they tried talking to us about it while 85% of the class wasn't practicing it. It was a joke.

And the other 15% was trying hard not to.

Realistically, when my ex wife and I hit some serious financial hurdles before our first child, one of the best bits of help we got was a local church that gave us a weekly supply of condoms.  It was something that didn't cost anything and helped take our minds off the budget for a while each night until things improved.

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Good move on their part. Maybe they saw that it bothered a lot of us and did the right thing. 

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, Backroads said:

Looks like Planned Parenthood is cancelling the condoms.

Apparently, KK chose the wrong.

Edited July 27, 2016 by Guest

[Guest MormonGator]

21 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I'm writing them a check in your name just for that.

[Ironhold]

8 hours ago, MormonGator said:

Good move on their part. Maybe they saw that it bothered a lot of us and did the right thing. 

Or maybe they realized that if the matter went to court they'd get smacked down so hard the entire Utah chapter would be in danger of collapse from the legal fees and penalties.