Should I focus more on learning?

[Guest]

I only put so much focus on getting married and temple sealed because it's the crowning ordinance you need for exaltation, but instead of focusing on women, wouldn't it be a better path to focus on learning more about the gospel and increasing in knowledge and wisdom about the Lord and God's church? Things are going to happen in the Lord's time so shouldn't we be focused on trying to grow in intelligence?

[Guest]

A lot of young people worry about getting married and having kids, but the thing we should worry about is learning. We are here to learn and grow.

[Guest MormonGator]

6 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

A lot of young people worry about getting married and having kids, but the thing we should worry about is learning. We are here to learn and grow.

I agree with you. People get married too young sometimes. Thank goodness it's changing though. I'm seeing more and more people get married later in life when they are more sure of what they want and who they are. 

[LeSellers]

2 hours ago, Zarahemla said:

instead of focusing on women, wouldn't it be a better path to focus on learning more about the gospel and increasing in knowledge and wisdom about the Lord and God's church?

1 hour ago, Zarahemla said:

A lot of young people worry about getting married and having kids, but the thing we should worry about is learning. We are here to learn and grow.

They're not mutually exclusive, fer cryin' in a bucket.

The first commandment God gave mankind is "multiply and replenish the earth." It was not learn the Gospel, it was not learn your trade or craft. These are important things to do, but they are not the principle reason for being here.

1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

People get married too young sometimes. Thank goodness it's changing though. I'm seeing more and more people get married later in life when they are more sure of what they want and who they are. 

And, as they marry older, the number of children decreases. This is bad both spiritually and temporally, personally and culturally. (Read The Birth Dearth: What Happens When People in Free Countries Don't Have Enough Babies?, by Ben J. Watternberg.)

As they get older, they become more set in their ways, and they are less able to adapt to married life and make the concessions required when two people live together.

As they marry older, they are less able to sacrifice their personal "wants" to a greater good, that of their family.

Having a good job is nice, but it is not a requisite for marriage. Having "stuff" is nice, but it is not required for marriage. Having all this eliminates the struggle and reduces the necessity of bonding together in (trivial, although it doesn't seem so at the time) adversity that will make facing hardships later easier and natural.

Late marriage is worse than early marriage. Physically, it seems better, but measuring those things that count, it doesn't hold a candle to having a spouse and children when our God-designed bodies are ready for parenting.

Lehi

Edited August 6, 2016 by LeSellers

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

A lot of young people worry about getting married and having kids, but the thing we should worry about is learning. We are here to learn and grow.

 

19 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

I agree with you. People get married too young sometimes. Thank goodness it's changing though. I'm seeing more and more people get married later in life when they are more sure of what they want and who they are. 

I agree and disagree.  There are some interesting dynamics going on here that should be considered.

In older times people got married much younger because various social factors required much more responsibility of children and youth such that, by the time you were 18 to 21 years old, you were perfectly mature and aware of yourself and the world in which you lived.

Today, people just don't expect much of children and little of youth.  Too many luxuries and not enough responsibilities make today's 18 to 21 y.o. adults less mature.  So, the term "tweens" seems more appropriate than young adult.

Because of this change in dynamic, yes, people ought to spend more time learning about those things which make a person more responsible and mature.  It is unfortunate that this has happened to our society.  But it is a reality to deal with.

[UtahTexan]

You can do both....but, learning is always a great idea.  We are taught in the Book of Mormon that prayer, fasting, and study is how you grow your testimony.

If your testimony is not growing, it is shrinking.....

[Guest MormonGator]

12 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

  But it is a reality to deal with.

It is. People are marrying older and having less kids. At the same time, we are living longer lifespans than ever before. 

To me it's good and bad. It's good because people have more options. In bad, because some countries are dying off. Look at Europe. 

Like you said, better get used to it. 

Edited August 5, 2016 by MormonGator

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Like you said, better get used to it. 

Actually, I don't believe I said that.  I said it was a reality to deal with.  But I'd rather not get used to it.  I'd rather preach to the world to get up off their spoiled bums and get to work doing stuff that matters while you're still a youth.  Then by the time you're an adult, you'll actually be an adult.

This could very easily lead to my soapbox topic of the rising generation not knowing anything.  And I'm sure every generation has said that.  But really, to not know what you just spent four years paying to learn drives me nuts.

[Guest MormonGator]

2 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Actually, I don't believe I said that.  I said it was a reality to deal with.  

You are, of course, free to ignore reality. 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

You are, of course, free to ignore reality. 

I wish I could.  But unfortunately, I lack that gene.

[Guest]

I bring up intelligence because the scriptures say "The glory of God is intelligence". And intelligence is really what's going to separate those in Spirit Paradise from Prison and from the different degrees of glory. Different degrees of intelligence.

Edited August 5, 2016 by Zarahemla

[Jane_Doe]

1 hour ago, Zarahemla said:

I only put so much focus on getting married and temple sealed because it's the crowning ordinance you need for exaltation, but instead of focusing on women, wouldn't it be a better path to focus on learning more about the gospel and increasing in knowledge and wisdom about the Lord and God's church? Things are going to happen in the Lord's time so shouldn't we be focused on trying to grow in intelligence?

Your (and everyone else's) focus should be on growing with God.  That involves increasing in knowledge AND wisdom, as you said (got to have both, and people often neglect the wisdom).  

Focusing on "I need to get married right now" is not a good goal, because things happen in the Lord's time, not ours.  However, during your course of growing with God, a product of that is you will be prepared to become a spouse (patient, loving, long-suffering, etc) when it is time.

[Jane_Doe]

56 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

A lot of young people worry about getting married and having kids, but the thing we should worry about is learning. We are here to learn and grow.

Again, the most important thing is for us to be disciples of Christ and do things in His time.

If a person impatiently gets married/has kids before the time, that is not well.

If a person selfishly refuses the Lord's prompting to get married/have kids, that is not well.

If a person fails to grow in the Lord at any time, that is not well.

[Connie]

I got married young by today’s standards. I was 20 years old. Getting married young and starting to have kids right away has been the most intense learning experience of my life. And 16 years later I’m still learning and growing. For me, this has been the best way I could learn about my Heavenly Father and His work to “bring about the immortality and eternal life” of His children. He is, after all, first and foremost a father. What better way to learn about Him than by becoming a parent myself and relying on Him for help in my parental role.

I think humans are given such varying life experiences because we each have our own individual journey. We all learn in different ways and are each on a different level of learning. So, yes, we should be focused on learning to grow closer to the character and intelligence of God in the context of the experiences He chooses to send to us individually. Turn to Him in all things and ask what He would have you learn from your current circumstances.

[zil]

1 hour ago, LeSellers said:

As they get older, they become more set in their ways, and they are less able to adapt to married life and make the concessions required when two people live together.

That.  So the question becomes at what point are you mature enough for marriage and still not so set in your ways that no one in their right mind would want to live with you.

I prefer @Jane_Doe's answer best: be a disciple of Christ.  The glory of God is intelligence, or in other words, light and truth.  (Or "For behold, this is my work and my glory -- to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.")  This is not a worldly, intellectual education*, it's a spiritual one, and our teacher is Jesus Christ.  If you're worried about becoming like God, help him to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.  If you're worried about getting married, become marry-able.  The best way I can think of to do that is to become a true disciple of Jesus Christ.

*I'm not arguing against education that is not obviously spiritual (I think all honest education can be spiritual),  I'm just arguing that our focus should be to follow Christ.

For some reason, some people think we need something more / different than the Sunday School answers, and yet, until we've mastered those answers with real intent, they are the best answer.  I'm not saying you think that @Zarahemla, I don't know, but you appear to be searching for something "more" and the best answers really are the standard ones, but with more effort, more desire to let the Lord lead you, etc.  (I think I used to be you in this regard, so I'm telling you, I've discovered that the mysteries were under my nose the whole time, not hidden away in some book they didn't tell young people about. )

Edited August 6, 2016 by zil

[LeSellers]

49 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

I bring up intelligence because the scriptures say "The glory of God is intelligence". And intelligence is really what's going to separate those in Spirit Paradise from Prison and from the different degrees of glory. Different degrees of intelligence.

What you say is true, but it seems you mean it differently from what I'd mean were I to have said it. You truncate the passage, not even including a full sentence.

Doctrine and Covenants 93:36

Quote

36 The glory of God is intelligence, or, in other words, light and truth.

The scripture you cite has nothing to do with "learning" in any classical sense. We don't get the glory of God by going to school or studying the scriptures. We get intelligence by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. "Light and truth" are the key, not "learning".

Again, we point out that the first commandment is multiply and replenish the earth. One cannot legitimately obey this commandment without marriage, and, as the prophets have said, those who delay bearing and raising children will reap disappointment by and by. And no amount of learning will supply its want.

Lehi

Edited August 6, 2016 by LeSellers

[LeSellers]

1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

People are marrying older and having less kids. At the same time, we are living longer lifespans than ever before.

The two don't cancel each other out.

If people have four children by age thirty, by the time they're 60, there will be sixteen grandchildren, plus the four children and the two parents (ignoring the parents-in-law), total of 22 people. By their ninetieth birthdays, it's 64 more, or 86. Then the original parents die, and the others are mostly under 65, and soon-to-be working, contributing to antiSocial inSecurity and other taxes, along with creating the stuff that makes life possible.

If they have two children by the time they're 35, they'll have four grandchildren at age 70, and when they're 105, it'll be eight great grandchildren, plus all the adults, or 22. And, of those, only six are under 65 and over 25 (when some people start working). (Math on-the-fly: check it, but the principle is the same no matter the calculation.)

It's a lose-lose.

Lehi

[zil]

52 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

...

If people have four children by age thirty, by the time they're 60, there will be sixteen grandchildren, plus the four children and the two parents (ignoring the parents-in-law), total of 22 people. By their ninetieth birthdays, it's 64 more, or 86. Then the original parents die, and the others are mostly under 65, and soon-to-be working, contributing to antiSocial inSecurity and other taxes, along with creating the stuff that makes life possible.

...

So what you're saying is, mortality was the first pyramid scheme?

[LeSellers]

4 minutes ago, zil said:

So what you're saying is, mortality was the first pyramid scheme?

In essence, yes. And this "scheme" was a win-win — it was designed by Father.

AntiSocial inSecurity, on the other hand, may not have been the first, but it is certainly among the most abominable Ponzi schemes. It's legal, but it's morality is non-existent: another lose-lose.

Lehi

Edited August 6, 2016 by LeSellers

[Anddenex]

4 hours ago, zil said:

For some reason, some people think we need something more / different than the Sunday School answers, and yet, until we've mastered those answers with real intent, they are the best answer.

This.

[Edspringer]

13 hours ago, LeSellers said:

The first commandment God gave mankind is "multiply and replenish the earth." It was not learn the Gospel, it was not learn your trade or craft. These are important things to do, but they are not the principle reason for being here.

I really appreciate this insight. Thanx, Lehi

14 hours ago, Zarahemla said:

I only put so much focus on getting married and temple sealed because it's the crowning ordinance you need for exaltation, but instead of focusing on women, wouldn't it be a better path to focus on learning more about the gospel and increasing in knowledge and wisdom about the Lord and God's church? Things are going to happen in the Lord's time so shouldn't we be focused on trying to grow in intelligence?

We are told in the scriptures that “[….] this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors” (Alma 34:32).

This is the second estate referred by Abraham and is the time to do and learn things. So how do we do and learn?

Earthly life is essential in God’s plan for His children because of our physical bodies. As spirits in the pre-mortal existence we advanced in knowledge. Free agency and opposition were present before us and they were extremely important for our eternal progress. Then we needed more advancement. We needed a physical body through which more knowledge would be acquired through experience. When we die, we go to the spirit world, which is here, according to the modern prophets. This is a continuation of our second estate, but the things we could accomplish with the body can’t be done there, for instance, getting married.

So do is part of learning. Learning is doing. Knowledge can only be acquired through experience, whether it is by reading, listening, feeling, acting. Let’s remember that the prophet Lehi taught that there are things in the universe to act and things to be acted upon (2 Nephi 2:14). No knowledge is acquired being acted upon, only through acting. Intelligence can't be attained without experience. 

 

[Guest]

I think it's best to work on improving myself as a person than worrying about dating and marriage. Those things will happen once I become a better person both temporally and spiritually.

[zil]

18 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

I think it's best to work on improving myself as a person than worrying about dating and marriage. Those things will happen once I become a better person both temporally and spiritually.

Zarahemla, IMO, at your age, you shouldn't avoid dating, just don't make it your obsession or let it exclude important things.  Let's look at what happens if we're focused on becoming a true disciple of Christ:

• We pray, study the scriptures, repent, forgive, serve others, attend church, accept and magnify callings (and priesthood), pay tithes and offerings, attend the temple, keep covenants, follow promptings of the Holy Ghost, etc.
• The above things teach us to be humble, sacrifice our time and money for the benefit of others, to focus on eternal things rather than immediate desires (excellent preparation for marriage and children, it seems to me)
• The above things bring us into contact with others, including many striving to do what we are doing
• The above things, continued, make us gradually a better and better person

...date the women you meet who are pursuing the same goals you are pursuing.  (It's only my opinion, but I think this is a better way to find people to date than something more random.)

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, zil said:

Zarahemla, IMO, at your age, you shouldn't avoid dating, just don't make it your obsession or let it exclude important things.  Let's look at what happens if we're focused on becoming a true disciple of Christ:

• We pray, study the scriptures, repent, forgive, serve others, attend church, accept and magnify callings (and priesthood), pay tithes and offerings, attend the temple, keep covenants, follow promptings of the Holy Ghost, etc.
• The above things teach us to be humble, sacrifice our time and money for the benefit of others, to focus on eternal things rather than immediate desires (excellent preparation for marriage and children, it seems to me)
• The above things bring us into contact with others, including many striving to do what we are doing
• The above things, continued, make us gradually a better and better person

...date the women you meet who are pursuing the same goals you are pursuing.  (It's only my opinion, but I think this is a better way to find people to date than something more random.)

Excellent advice. I'll take it.

[LeSellers]

48 minutes ago, zil said:

Zarahemla, IMO, at your age, you shouldn't avoid dating, just don't make it your obsession or let it exclude important things. 

This is good advice, but unmarried adults need to recognize that getting married and raising a family is their primary job.

Whatever else you should be doing (and there are many things that fall under this rubric), find your eternal companion is Job 1.

Lehi