NeuroTypical Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 She knows our right wingers (which is most of us) are all struggling with Trump, so she's now openly pandering to us: Exclusive: Hillary Clinton: What I have in common with Utah leaders — religious freedom and the Constitution Quote I’ve been fighting to defend religious freedom for years. As secretary of state, I made it a cornerstone of our foreign policy to protect the rights of religious minorities around the world — from Coptic Christians in Egypt to Buddhists in Tibet. And along with Jon Huntsman, our then-ambassador in Beijing, I stood in solidarity with Chinese Christians facing persecution from their government. ... But you don’t have to take it from me. Listen to Mitt Romney, who said Trump “fired before aiming” when he decided a blanket religious ban was a solution to the threat of terrorism. Listen to former Sen. Larry Pressler, who said Trump’s plan reminded him of when Missouri Gov. Lilburn Boggs singled out Mormons in his infamous extermination order of 1838. Or listen to your governor, who saw Trump’s statement as a reminder of President Rutherford B. Hayes’ attempt to limit Mormon immigration to America in 1879. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 Heh. Someone should ask her what she thought of The Book of Mormon Musical. Hemisphere 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeSellers Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 Pandering is what she does best. Well, that and having people killed if she doesn't like them. Oh, and attacking the women who dare accuse her husband of rape. I nearly forgot, losing eMails. Lehi Hemisphere and Jojo Bags 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesuji Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 (edited) Why does it have to be pandering, when she explains to Mormons in terms that Mormons understand, why she will be a better president than Trump? Apparently, she was asked by they paper even, to give this statement. Personally, as a Mormon even, it's not even close. Hillary will be a better president and shares my values, much more than Trump does. Way more than Trump does. Edited August 10, 2016 by tesuji Sunday21 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 6 minutes ago, tesuji said: Hillary will be a better president and shares my values Which ones? I'm curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordorbund Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 The Book of Mormon says we should only have men for political leaders: Quote Nevertheless, if it were possible that ye could always have just men to be your kings it would be well for you to have a king. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 Yeah, no one wants a woman for a king. Just men. Like Obama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesuji Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Eowyn said: Which ones? I'm curious. OK, as some of you may know, I don't like arguing politics and I think it's almost always pointless. I would prefer not to see political threads on this site. But even if a dog just wants to take a nap, if you poke it enough it will probably respond - that's how it feels. In this election, in my opinion, you don't even have to love Hillary. Trump is so unsuited to be president and says so many ignorant and offensive things that clearly it should be anyone but Trump. He is so far out off the map, as far as what a candidate should be. To someone who disagrees with me, I can only say please follow the news better, and don't get only one perspective. Go to the Washington Post site on any given day, if you want to see what I'm talking about, as far as Trump. There are too many points, as far as areas I agree with Hillary on. I don't agree with everything - I'm completely against gay marriage, for example. Check out all her points, and see how you think they align with the gospel. I mean the gospel, not Mormon conservative culture. https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/ I'm not a Democrat, but I agree with them on many points, Please read the following, including page 2, to get my general feeling about that party and the gospel. http://www.patheos.com/Resources/Additional-Resources/Why-Im-a-Mormon-Democrat I apologize if I'm seeming to be evasive. I really don't want to argue about this. I stated my opinion. I know many Mormons disagree with me. I'm sure I haven't answered to your satisfaction. [edited, forgot the second link] Edited August 10, 2016 by tesuji Sunday21 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted August 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 Obama isn't a king, kings don't bow that much. LeSellers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesuji Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 I just sent this as a private message to Eowyn. I will copy it here publicly too - maybe it will explain myself a little better to you all: To Eowyn: I apologize for not answering your question in detail. I posted against my better judgement, but I get upset. Politics is not worth arguing with most people. It feels like a big pointless waste of time, and everyone is just mad at each other afterward. I will try to give you more details about what I mean sometime soon. I don't agree with Hillary on everything, but especially in this election you don't have to love her - Trump is so horrible, in my opinion. Sunday21 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 Catch 22 for her. If she ignores religious people, she gets yelled at for not reaching out. If she DOES reach out, it's called pandering. I don't agree with her and I wouldn't vote for her at gunpoint. But I can see her dilemma here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 @tesuji I certainly didn't want to upset you or even debate! It was just a statement I'd never heard... her values matching someone's... and I was curious. I get not wanting to discuss politics, especially in a public forum with some passionate people. Thanks for your answer. I am honestly torn in half. He is despicable to me, and I don't trust her for a minute even if she says the right things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Godless Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 8 minutes ago, MormonGator said: Catch 22 for her. If she ignores religious people, she gets yelled at for not reaching out. If she DOES reach out, it's called pandering. I don't agree with her and I wouldn't vote for her at gunpoint. But I can see her dilemma here. EXACTLY. Pandering is a politician's game, and HRC is a career politician. Even Lincoln, prior to winning the election, is documented to have condemned slavery when giving speeches in the northern states, and condoning it when campaigning in the south. It's an ugly part of the campaigning process, but a necessary one to anyone who actually wants to get elected. I think Trump's downfall will be his refusal to pander outside of his base. Pandering to that base got him the GOP nomination, but now he has a much broader crowd to bring in, and I don't think he can reach them without losing his base voters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesuji Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 15 minutes ago, Eowyn said: @tesuji I certainly didn't want to upset you or even debate! It was just a statement I'd never heard... her values matching someone's... and I was curious. I get not wanting to discuss politics, especially in a public forum with some passionate people. Thanks for your answer. I am honestly torn in half. He is despicable to me, and I don't trust her for a minute even if she says the right things. You didn't upset me. I appreciate your sincere query about my beliefs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Godless said: EXACTLY. Pandering is a politician's game, and HRC is a career politician. Even Lincoln, prior to winning the election, is documented to have condemned slavery when giving speeches in the northern states, and condoning it when campaigning in the south. It's an ugly part of the campaigning process, but a necessary one to anyone who actually wants to get elected. I think Trump's downfall will be his refusal to pander outside of his base. Pandering to that base got him the GOP nomination, but now he has a much broader crowd to bring in, and I don't think he can reach them without losing his base voters. Tag team time. Amen Godless. The blunt truth that Trumpers and other political junkies refuse to comprehend is that successful politicians build coalitions. Unsuccessful ones just argue. Trump is unsuccessful in that category. it's like being in an online forum. You can be rude, refuse to see the other persons POV and convinced you are always right. Eventually it'll get you thrown out and shunned/ignored by everyone. Just like what'll happen to Trump the day after the election . Getting along with people matters. Basic life truth. Edited August 10, 2016 by MormonGator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted August 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 Wait - isn't the following commonly known to all voters? Politicians, during election cycles, say what they think will get people to vote for them. "Campaign to the center, govern to the [left/right]" is well understood, right? After the election, they have some leeway to advance their real agendas. The power of this leeway is calculated by the margin of winning votes to losing votes. More than 15%, and the politician claims "a mandate from the people", and can afford to insult or offend or steamroller over the opposition. The whole "my side's candidate is honorable and your side is dishonorable" comes from 3rd grade recess mentality. It is not reflected in US political reality. In other words, all politicians pander. Clinton, Trump, Sanders, Johnson, Romney, everyone. It's a thing you do in politics. If you don't do it, you're not a good politician. There is an element to the word 'pander' that suggests ethical or moral naughtiness, someone not being totally on-board with what they're saying. That is also part of politics. SpiritDragon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 6 minutes ago, MormonGator said: Tag team time. Amen Godless. The blunt truth that Trumpers and other political junkies refuse to comprehend is that successful politicians build coalitions. Unsuccessful ones just argue. Trump is unsuccessful in that category. it's like being in an online forum. You can be rude, refuse to see the other persons POV and convinced you are always right. Eventually it'll get you thrown out and shunned/ignored by everyone. Just like what'll happen to Trump the day after the election . Getting along with people matters. Basic life truth. He gets along with people just fine. Too many people who work with him and for him has said so. People like Rush Limbaugh and Rudy Giullani whose opinions used to matter for Republicans. What he doesn't do is pander. You are correct about that. He tells you what he thinks is the right thing to do, not what you want to hear. That would be bad if he is a close-minded fool like the press would want you to think. He isn't. His foreign policy starter pack was testament to that. His economic starter pack is another testament to that. The Trump Organization is testament to that. We finally managed to have a non-politician succeed in the political arena and y'all complain he doesn't sound and act like a politician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 (edited) 30 minutes ago, anatess2 said: He gets along with people just fine. He sure does. That's why he's doing so well in the polls and is able to build a strong, winning and united coalition to defeat Hillary in November! Yay Trump! http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/governor-races/291027-poll-clinton-leads-trump-by-7-points-nationwide http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/first-read/polls-clinton-ahead-trump-midwest-battlegrounds-n626541 http://www.weeklystandard.com/polls-trump-trails-clinton-by-double-digits-in-pennsylvania/article/2003746 http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-polls-arent-skewed-trump-really-is-losing-badly/ http://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/2016/08/05/poll-clinton-opens-up-11-point-lead-trump-michigan/88293726/ http://www.wsj.com/articles/hillary-clintons-lead-over-donald-trump-widens-to-9-points-poll-shows-1470347810 Like an alcoholic confronted about their drinking, I expect Trumperdoodles to be in total denial and blame the polls being "biased". You've nominated a cartoon character and this is what you get. Edited August 10, 2016 by MormonGator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeSellers Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 8 minutes ago, anatess2 said: What he doesn't do is pander. You are correct about that. He tells you what he thinks is the right thing to do, not what you want to hear. Indeed. Clinton panders because her actions are in direct conflict with her actions and history. I much prefer someone with whom I disagree than someone who panders to me by telling me things I know he doesn't belive, and is only trying to manipulate me. Lehi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 28 minutes ago, MormonGator said: He sure does. That's why he's doing so well in the polls and is able to build a strong, winning and united coalition to defeat Hillary in November! Yay Trump! http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/governor-races/291027-poll-clinton-leads-trump-by-7-points-nationwide http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/first-read/polls-clinton-ahead-trump-midwest-battlegrounds-n626541 http://www.weeklystandard.com/polls-trump-trails-clinton-by-double-digits-in-pennsylvania/article/2003746 http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-polls-arent-skewed-trump-really-is-losing-badly/ http://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/2016/08/05/poll-clinton-opens-up-11-point-lead-trump-michigan/88293726/ http://www.wsj.com/articles/hillary-clintons-lead-over-donald-trump-widens-to-9-points-poll-shows-1470347810 Like an alcoholic confronted about their drinking, I expect Trumperdoodles to be in total denial and blame the polls being "biased". You've nominated a cartoon character and this is what you get. Trump is popular because what he thinks is the right direction for the country agrees with what many people thinks is the right direction for the country. How many times did he get excoriated by the political class - even in the polls - and instead of backing down, he doubles up? When it is something he believes in, he doesn't back down. That's just the way he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 3 minutes ago, anatess2 said: Trump is popular His popularity is resounding. http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/poll-clinton-leads-trump-226858 http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-08-10/bloomberg-politics-national-poll http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/08/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-cnn-poll-of-polls/ http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2016/08/clinton-leads-in-nc-for-first-time-since-march.html http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-trails-hillary-clinton-double-digits-national/story?id=41210680 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 It's pretty obvious that @anatess2 and I disagree on this issue and we can both get very passionate and tart on it. Just so that everyone knows I do consider Anatess a friend and hope she considers me one too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted August 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 Best way to check the polls: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 "Many people say so" has bcome, as you know, the latest meme of Trumpisms. If I had tried "many people say..." to back a point up in any research paper in any class, I'd expect red marks on my paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordorbund Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 59 minutes ago, MormonGator said: His popularity is resounding. http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/poll-clinton-leads-trump-226858 http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-08-10/bloomberg-politics-national-poll http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/08/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-cnn-poll-of-polls/ http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2016/08/clinton-leads-in-nc-for-first-time-since-march.html http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-trails-hillary-clinton-double-digits-national/story?id=41210680 36 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said: Best way to check the polls: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html How much can we trust the polls? Weren't they pretty unreliable in the primaries? Or have those kinks been worked out? NeuroTypical 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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