LDS Church and other faiths ask Government to reject report

[pam]

The following letter has been sent to President Barack Obama, Sen. Orrin Hatch and House Speaker Paul Ryan in response to a report issued by the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights. The letter is signed by a diverse group of faith leaders (including Presiding Bishop Gérald Caussé of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints), representing tens of millions of Americans.

 

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/interfaith-coalition-president-congress-biased-religious-liberty-report?__prclt=fijwKVOE

[prisonchaplain]

Thank you for sharing this, Pam.  If anything should generate cooperation between faith communities, this horrific report is it.

[yjacket]

Welcome to the future. Anyone who thinks this crap is going to stop with Hillary as President is fooling themselves.  What do you think her comment about "implicit" bias is all about?

This country is done for.  The 2nd amendment will be gone and then the 1st and then we can be like the rest of the world.  The age of American greatness is coming to a close-we are seeing what made it great being hollowed out bit by bit.

Mark my words, tax exempt status for religious organizations will soon be going the way of the dust. When that happens, most of your small town churches will simply dry up having been taxed out of existence.

While Congress and the President haven't yet found a way to get around the constitution with actual laws, they can very easily tax it out of existence.

Edited October 12, 2016 by yjacket

[Guest]

Obama's response: (after only reading the first couple paragraphs)  Could you go ahead and send something about protecting freedoms and make it sound friendly to religion.  What?  Whose?   I don't care.  It's not like we're actually going to do anything to protect them.  Just write the letter so they can go back to where ever they came from.

Orrin Hatch's response: Why I think that report is terrible. But there's nothing we can really do about it.  So, lunch anyone?  Oh, could you write a response saying we're doing something about it?  What?  Nothing really.  But we just need to tell them we're doing something.  Anything.

Paul Ryan's response:  What?  I don't have time for this.  I'm trying to figure out how to keep my seat with this albatross called Trump hanging around my neck.  Just write some response would you?

Pardon my cynicism.  On second thought, no, this is probably reality.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Guest

[Just_A_Guy]

Here's a link to the report being objected to.  (How anything over 300 pages could be called a "briefing report", is beyond me . . . )

[Guest MormonGator]

It's really nice that many leaders of all types of faiths have come together for this reason. So that's a positive. 

[Guest]

20 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Here's a link to the report being objected to.  (How anything over 300 pages could be called a "briefing report", is beyond me . . . )

Thanks, JAG.

For those having trouble with legalese, let me break this down for ya.  (JAG, let me know if I've got it right).

Excerpt from the abstract

Quote

The Commission heard testimony from experts and scholars in the field and a majority of the Commission made findings and recommendations. 

The one point that is so obvious that everyone ignores it is that this report was generated by a COMMISSION.  That means that a government body thought this issue was so important that they created a government study group to say what they wanted them to say.  Many of the politically controversial commissions are not trying to do a real study.  They just want to put something together to sound really official and scientific when they present the conclusion they had already pre-determined.

Quote

FINDING

1. Civil rights protections ensuring nondiscrimination, as embodied in the Constitution... 

RECOMMENDATION

1. Overly-broad religious exemptions unduly burden nondiscrimination laws and policies. Federal and state courts, lawmakers, and policy-makers at every level must tailor religious exceptions to civil liberties and civil rights protections as narrowly as applicable law requires.

No, nondiscrimination is NOT embodied in the Constitution.  It never was, never intended to be.  The founders knew that "discrimination" as used today was simply another word for "conscience".  This was NEVER to be regulated.

The "overly-broad" language simply means "things the other side doesn't like".

Quote

FINDING

2. Religious exemptions to the protections of civil rights based upon classifications such as race, color, national origin, sex, disability status, sexual orientation, and gender identity, when they are permissible, significantly infringe upon these civil rights... 

RECOMMENDATION

2. RFRA protects only religious practitioners’ First Amendment free exercise rights, and it does not limit others’ freedom from government-imposed religious limitations under the Establishment Clause.

IOW, religion should have no power to teach anything contrary to the rainbow agenda, nor should churches have any exemptions whatsoever.  And this is after one of the key selling points about any gay marriage laws were that there would be religious exemptions.

Quote

FINDING

3. The First Amendment’s Establishment Clause constricts the ability of government actors to curtail private citizens’ rights to the protections of non-discrimination laws and policies...

RECOMMENDATION

3. In the absence of controlling authority to the contrary such as a state-level, RFRA-type statute, the recognition of religious exemptions to nondiscrimination laws and policies should be made pursuant to the holdings of Employment Division v. Smith, which protect religious beliefs rather than conduct.

IOW: Religious freedom and peaceful coexistence cannot peacefully coexist unless one side or the other has its rights taken away.  They recommend the religious side has its rights taken away.

Quote

FINDING

4. With regard to federal government actions, RFRA protects only First Amendment free exercise rights of religious practitioners and not their Establishment Clause freedoms. Prior to RFRA’s enactment,... the First Amendment “had never been held to excuse [an individual’s religiously motivated conduct] from compliance with an otherwise valid law prohibiting conduct that the state is free to regulate.”...

RECOMMENDATION

4. Federal legislation should be considered to clarify that RFRA creates First Amendment Free Exercise Clause rights only for individuals and religious institutions and only to the extent that they do not unduly burden civil liberties and civil rights protections against status-based discrimination... 

They are now taking an otherwise good SCOTUS decision to justify the state regulation of conscience.  The recommendation is that whether in court or in the legislature, the religious side should lose.

NOTE:

I honestly don't believe I'm being overly jaded about this.  I'm just putting it in stark language, stripped of any political correctness or obfuscation.  Once all that is taken away, my interpretations are what you're essentially left with.

Edited October 14, 2016 by Guest

[yjacket]

7 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I honestly don't believe I'm being overly jaded about this.  I'm just putting it in stark language, stripped of any political correctness or obfuscation.  Once all that is taken away, my interpretations are what you're essentially left with.

In other words: we're screwed.

Edited October 14, 2016 by yjacket

[prisonchaplain]

Pam, you inspired me to write a short post for this in LinkedIn.  For those interested:  https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/civil-rights-vs-religious-liberty-tommy-ellis?trk=pulse_spock-articles

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, yjacket said:

In other words: we're screwed.

I don't look at it that way.  It is just this kind of thing that may actually start a real change.  They're awakening a sleeping giant.  That's the way these things work.

[yjacket]

29 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I don't look at it that way.  It is just this kind of thing that may actually start a real change.  They're awakening a sleeping giant.  That's the way these things work.

You have more faith in the system that I do.  I believe the only thing that is going to save us is literally Christ Himself; can't wait for Him to get here.

In other news:

Looks like the Clinton Team were putting out fake jobs on Craigslist spoofing Trump. Now the curious thing about this is the items they mention like.

* Must be open to public humiliation and open-press workouts if you do gain weight on the job

and the date on the e-mail was May 18th.  It can be inferred that the Clinton Team knew about the Machado thing many, many months ago and with the collusion with the News Media it becomes obvious that they were instructing the news media to specifically hold back on it until they wanted it released.

Trumps fault in all this isn't that he is a cad, it's that he's a political neophyte, they are and have been screwing him 6 ways to Sunday, but he certainly hasn't helped himself

https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/12803

The political elite with their open disdain for religion and this "commission" report. We are only at year 1 of homosexual marriage . . .just wait this will get a lot worse before it gets better.

Edited October 14, 2016 by yjacket

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, yjacket said:

You have more faith in the system that I do.  I believe the only thing that is going to save us is literally Christ Himself; can't wait for Him to get here.

I'm not talking about the system as in "the political process".  I'm thinking that when push comes to shove, a collapse of the government as we know it will occur.  Then religion will be a natural place for Christians to go to for leadership.  Others will have nothing.

That is the best reset button I can think of.

Edited October 14, 2016 by Guest

[yjacket]

4 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I'm not talking about the system as in "the political process".  I'm thinking that when push comes to shove, a collapse of the government as we know it will occur.  Then religion will be a natural place for Christians to go to for leadership.  Others will have nothing.

That is the best reset button I can think of.

I personally think the only thing that will save us will be the 2nd Coming; but I definitely hope more people will take solace in religion.

[prisonchaplain]

Jesus says to count ourselves blessed when we are lied about for upholding the gospel.  The Apostle Paul adds that we must not grow weary in doing good works.  Prayer, perspiration and perspective. 

[Blackmarch]

On October 12, 2016 at 4:45 PM, yjacket said:

Welcome to the future. Anyone who thinks this crap is going to stop with Hillary as President is fooling themselves.  What do you think her comment about "implicit" bias is all about?

This country is done for.  The 2nd amendment will be gone and then the 1st and then we can be like the rest of the world.  The age of American greatness is coming to a close-we are seeing what made it great being hollowed out bit by bit.

Mark my words, tax exempt status for religious organizations will soon be going the way of the dust. When that happens, most of your small town churches will simply dry up having been taxed out of existence.

While Congress and the President haven't yet found a way to get around the constitution with actual laws, they can very easily tax it out of existence.

hate to stomp on what little faith you have in the constitution but the second amendment has already been screwed over. Has been for a looong time. You get out of the rest of the constitution the same way; convince the masses to intrepret it differently.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Food for thought:

Years ago, I heard Reed Benon speak. He said we were rapidly losing our freedom but no one was paying any attention. He further said that our religious freedom would be the last to go because people would notice that, but by then it would be too late.

Such a haunting thought that I've remembered it all these years.