estradling75 Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 7 minutes ago, anatess2 said: I'm saying you are not looking outside of the regulated box because... the reason insurance companies cannot offer competitive pre-existing condition coverage is because regulations prevent them from creating large groups outside of big corporations. Well thank you for confirming the point I was trying to make... and then challenging for not making a point that I did not intend to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 7 minutes ago, estradling75 said: Well thank you for confirming the point I was trying to make... and then challenging for not making a point that I did not intend to make. Okay dude. Whatever. You make less sense than a burlap bag. But, hey, keep on that track because it's really great communication. Not. I have better things to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 (edited) 13 hours ago, anatess2 said: You really should stop watching Mainstream Media. Trump never softened on that because he has always stomped on keeping pieces of Obamacare - remember in the very first debates on Fox: "I'm not gonna let people die on the streets" to which all the Republican candidates minus Carson including Fox News went apoplectic over his "support of Obamacare". The Republicans, of course, was just using it to try to eliminate Trump... because, EVERY SINGLE REPLACEMENT HEALTHCARE BILL post Obamacare that the Republican Congress has come up with has provisions for pre-existing conditions and keeping kids up to age 25 on their parent's insurance. Yet they stomped on the campaign trail never mentioning that because they want to make you think they are more conservative than Trump on healthcare. Political sleight of hand... From Trump's own campaign website: Quote On day one of the Trump Administration, we will ask Congress to immediately deliver a full repeal of Obamacare. This is vintage Trump: Take a multitude of positions on all sides of any given issue, and then in any given moment cite the position that is most convenient to you while doggedly denying ever having espoused any of the other positions and questioning the sanity of those who through facts and logic are able to prove you a liar. Welcome to the new state of American political discourse, where we no longer even pretend that truth and facts and integrity matter--and self-professed Christians are willing to accept that as a good thing, so long as it's their bread that (they think is) getting buttered. Edited November 21, 2016 by Just_A_Guy mordorbund 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 16 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said: This is vintage Trump: Take a multitude of positions on all sides of any given issue, and then in any given moment cite the position that is most convenient to you while doggedly denying ever having espoused any of the other positions and questioning the sanity of those who through facts and logic are able to prove you a liar. co-signed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said: From Trump's own campaign website: This is vintage Trump: Take a multitude of positions on all sides of any given issue, and then in any given moment cite the position that is most convenient to you while doggedly denying ever having espoused any of the other positions and questioning the sanity of those who through facts and logic are able to prove you a liar. Welcome to the new state of American political discourse, where we no longer even pretend that truth and facts and integrity matter--and self-professed Christians are willing to accept that as a good thing, so long as it's their bread that (they think is) getting buttered. It is A FULL REPEAL. You can't repeal only parts of it. The replacement bill is what we are talking about that will have pre-existing conditions provisioned. This is the same thing as Ben Carson's platform. I guess you're not done throwing the kitchen sink at Trump yet. Keep on dividing. Your lawyer skills are clouded with your hatred of Trump. And here they accuse Trumpers of being haters. Take a long look at the mirror. Edited November 21, 2016 by anatess2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 (edited) 49 minutes ago, anatess2 said: It is A FULL REPEAL. You can't repeal only parts of it. The replacement bill is what we are talking about that will have pre-existing conditions provisioned. This is the same thing as Ben Carson's platform. A full repeal. But not a full repeal, because we'll be immediately re-enacting major portions of it. But it's still a full repeal--really!--and how dare you suggest he's dissembling? How dare you, I say?! Quote I guess you're not done throwing the kitchen sink at Trump yet. Keep on dividing. Why? The election didn't turn Trump into a virtuous or honest, person. It did not turn him into an ideological conservative. Trump is no leader; he is at best an ally whose loyalty should be constantly held under very tight scrutiny. As long as Trump's mighty corps of gleeful liars and unquestioning bootlickers is out there demanding absolute fealty from conservatives and nominal Christians, there will be a need for folks who will keep the discussion grounded by pointing out Trump's manifold limitations and weaknesses. Edited November 21, 2016 by Just_A_Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 @anatess2, @Just_A_Guy I believe part of the problem is that it isn't just Trump. The Republican establishment wants this much control over healthcare as well. That's why the replacement bill (penned by establishment) has so much of the same in it. They were against it when it was convenient. But now they come in with a very similar bill but market it with the Republican Sachet, and - BOOM - conservatives are all for it because the populace wasn't really conservative to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 3 hours ago, anatess2 said: Okay dude. Whatever. You make less sense than a burlap bag. But, hey, keep on that track because it's really great communication. Not. I have better things to do. I was talking about how you can not just selectively repeal parts of Obama Care. You post that I am wrong... but you then proceed to agree with my points without in any way showing that I was wrong about. Other then vague "think outside the box" Only after I point that out do you explain that one can selectively repeal part of Obama Care... if they also selectively repeal other healthcare regulations. Which again was exactly my point. Trump can not just selectively repeal part of Obama Care, he has to have a comprehensive approach.. Looks like your communication skill are equally sound. Not. And if after all the dust settles what we have rebranded-reshuffled Trump Care rather then Obama Care. Then I will call it promised unfulfilled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirkwood Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 @anatess2 stop the personal attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 22, 2016 Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 So, back on topic... We've now just heard from Trump's chief advisor that he will NOT be pursuing any further investigation or prosecution of Hillary Clinton. Surprise, surprise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted November 22, 2016 Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 5 minutes ago, Carborendum said: So, back on topic... We've now just heard from Trump's chief advisor that he will NOT be pursuing any further investigation or prosecution of Hillary Clinton. Surprise, surprise! Trump got what he wanted. It's time to put the pistols away and work on fixing the country. Hillary lost, and that's punishment enough. She'll never get over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 22, 2016 Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 5 minutes ago, MormonGator said: Trump got what he wanted. It's time to put the pistols away and work on fixing the country. Hillary lost, and that's punishment enough. She'll never get over it. It's not about punishing here. It is about sending a message that there isn't one set of laws for the elites and another set of laws for everyone else. That has not been undone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted November 22, 2016 Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 6 minutes ago, Carborendum said: It's not about punishing here. It is about sending a message that there isn't one set of laws for the elites and another set of laws for everyone else. That has not been undone. Why would Trump (of all people) want to send that message? (Now that he does not have an election to win) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted November 22, 2016 Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 5 minutes ago, Carborendum said: It's not about punishing here. It is about sending a message that there isn't one set of laws for the elites and another set of laws for everyone else. That has not been undone. No, it's absolutely about punishing her and it's a total moot point now. It would cost a huge amount of time, resources and burn an obscene amount of political capital. It's time to move on. Act like Ford when he pardoned Nixon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 22, 2016 Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 7 minutes ago, estradling75 said: Why would Trump (of all people) want to send that message? (Now that he does not have an election to win) That's kinda my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 22, 2016 Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 6 minutes ago, MormonGator said: No, it's absolutely about punishing her and it's a total moot point now. It would cost a huge amount of time, resources and burn an obscene amount of political capital. It's time to move on. Act like Ford when he pardoned Nixon. I would say it's moot if Trump also went through a lot of other similar cases and pardoned some in prison now who are only there because of negligence and carelessness, not actual malice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted November 22, 2016 Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 6 minutes ago, Carborendum said: I would say it's moot if Trump also went through a lot of other similar cases and pardoned some in prison now who are only there because of negligence and carelessness, not actual malice. Trump is many things, but he isn't stupid. He's not going to go off on a wild goose chase. Ask yourself this honestly-what is more important to the blue-collar Ohio voter who lost his job and has a family to feed-indicting Hillary or getting his job back? (and as it should be well known now, I do NOT think Trump can bring jobs back, but his voters obviously do). If you answer "prosecuting Hillary" it's time to agree to disagree and move on. He needs to focus on the economy. law and order, the supreme court. You know, winnable battles that won't cost the republicans the house in 2018 and or the senate in 2020. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted November 22, 2016 Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 5 minutes ago, MormonGator said: Trump is many things, but he isn't stupid. He's not going to go off on a wild goose chase. Ask yourself this honestly-what is more important to the blue-collar Ohio voter who lost his job and has a family to feed-indicting Hillary or getting his job back? (and as it should be well known now, I do NOT think Trump can bring jobs back, but his voters obviously do). If you answer "prosecuting Hillary" it's time to agree to disagree and move on. He needs to focus on the economy. law and order, the supreme court. You know, winnable battles that won't cost the republicans the house in 2018 and or the senate in 2020. True... but this thread is about Trump's promises. Going after Hilary was a promise...Which we get to mark as not happening.. So how many others are not going to happen either? Because ultimately Trump won because people believed his promises (However unwise that might have been) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted November 22, 2016 Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 5 minutes ago, estradling75 said: True... but this thread is about Trump's promises. Going after Hilary was a promise...Which we get to mark as not happening.. So how many others are not going to happen either? Because ultimately Trump won because people believed his promises (However unwise that might have been) Just to be clear-I am not a Trump fan at all. At this point, it should be obvious. We agree @estradling75 that he's going to break every promise he made because he didn't believe in what he was selling in the first place. He sold snake oil to his supporters and like bald guys (Sorry @Carborendum, nothing but love) who spend their money on useless things that say it'll regrow your hair-they ate it up and weren't preceptive enough to realize they were duped. So I'm not sure we disagree here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 22, 2016 Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, MormonGator said: bald guys (Sorry @Carborendum, nothing but love) I've never known a Korean who was bald. So, you don't have the monopoly on great hair, my friend. You're just jealous that I grew it out longer than your own magnificent mane. (seriously, if I grew my hair out, it would just stick out like a 'fro). Edited November 22, 2016 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted November 22, 2016 Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 20 hours ago, estradling75 said: I was talking about how you can not just selectively repeal parts of Obama Care. You post that I am wrong... but you then proceed to agree with my points without in any way showing that I was wrong about. Other then vague "think outside the box" Only after I point that out do you explain that one can selectively repeal part of Obama Care... if they also selectively repeal other healthcare regulations. Which again was exactly my point. Trump can not just selectively repeal part of Obama Care, he has to have a comprehensive approach.. Looks like your communication skill are equally sound. Not. And if after all the dust settles what we have rebranded-reshuffled Trump Care rather then Obama Care. Then I will call it promised unfulfilled Okay,... YOU CAN'T selectively repeal Obamacare as I have mentioned to JAG. That's why the Trump mantra is Repeal and REPLACE. The repeal is not a discussion anymore. That's the easy part. What you replace it with is the discussion at hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordorbund Posted November 22, 2016 Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 2 hours ago, MormonGator said: Ask yourself this honestly-what is more important to the blue-collar Ohio voter who lost his job and has a family to feed-indicting Hillary or getting his job back? In that particular demographic, it might not be so important. But what about the white-collar worker with a security clearance? And what about the CTO? Should she spend her time trying to determine how best to stay compliant with rules and regulations, or can she neglect that exercise by determining that her corporation is big enough and important enough to a Trump administration? 2 hours ago, MormonGator said: He needs to focus on ... law and order Agreed! That's the whole point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted November 22, 2016 Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 9 minutes ago, mordorbund said: Agreed! That's the whole point! Different kind of law and order. He needs to do what he can to protect our police officers and quell civil unrest. If he flames the fires and decides to focus on prosecuting Hillary, it'll divide the country even more. Someone has to be the adult and say that it's time to move on and forget Hillary. Prosecuting her will be like driving by your ex wifes house four times a day with your new, younger wife just to show her how you've moved on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted November 22, 2016 Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 8 minutes ago, anatess2 said: Okay,... YOU CAN'T selectively repeal Obamacare as I have mentioned to JAG. That's why the Trump mantra is Repeal and REPLACE. The repeal is not a discussion anymore. That's the easy part. What you replace it with is the discussion at hand. Fair enough... except in this thread you made no mention of Obama care until after you landed into to me. Your discussion with JAG either happened elsewhere or after. I am sorry I am not a mystical mind reader that can divine the nuances of your position before articulate it, but that is the way it is. And just because you have talked about Trump all over the place, doesn't mean you get to dictate the boundaries of the discussion or force us to accept only your understanding of what Trump says and means. And guess what... I listened to Trump... he never said Repeal and Replace. He said Repeal full stop. Only after he won and after he talked to Obama that he came back with saying that some part make sense... Now his followers (once again) are trying to re-write history of what he said, by saying that his promise (the subject of this thread) was really and always Repeal and Replace. mirkwood 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted November 22, 2016 Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 (edited) People are saying the same kind of thing now about Hillary as the did about Nixon. Ford's pardon of him cost him in 76 but now virtually everyone thinks it was the right thing to do. I'm 100% confident that by not prosecuting her people will look the same way towards Trump in 30 years. Edited November 22, 2016 by MormonGator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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