I'm Really Trying to be Understanding

[estradling75]

5 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

If what you mean by people not admitting it is me buying a gold-plated toothpick then this statement is what we would call unrighteous judgment.

Here I thought we were talking about ideas related to capitalism and spending...  But if you insist on making everything about you and personal... then we can't have a conversation and I see no reason feed your personal issues...  I am out.

[omegaseamaster75]

4 hours ago, estradling75 said:

No... feeding the sheep is a valid contribution to feeding the sheep...  Buying an expensive doodad... it is not feeding the sheep, it is is buying an expensive doodad.  (it might be wise to buy an expensive doodad I am not arguing that) but trying to justify buying an expensive doodad as "feeding the sheep" is self delusional.

I disagree, take Rolex as a perfect example, people look at it as how you put it "an expensive doodad" yeah it tells time and your $50.00 quartz timex might do as good a job or better at that function but people like luxury items. Luxury items do feed the sheep, over 800 people work at the Rolex factory in Switzerland, this doesn't include the 100's of authorized dealers who hire sales people and other staff. 

So we outlaw Rolex's because they are expensive doodads and put hundreds of people out of work..

Oh did you know Rolex is a privately held company that is actually a non profit organization.

 

[estradling75]

2 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

I disagree, take Rolex as a perfect example, people look at it as how you put it "an expensive doodad" yeah it tells time and your $50.00 quartz timex might do as good a job or better at that function but people like luxury items. Luxury items do feed the sheep, over 800 people work at the Rolex factory in Switzerland, this doesn't include the 100's of authorized dealers who hire sales people and other staff. 

So we outlaw Rolex's because they are expensive doodads and put hundreds of people out of work..

Oh did you know Rolex is a privately held company that is actually a non profit organization.

 

What part of "There might be wisdom in buying an expensive doodad" was unclear to you?

[omegaseamaster75]

The part where right after you make that statement you say its self delusional......

[estradling75]

31 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

The part where right after you make that statement you say its self delusional......

Then lets try some basic math...  In the example given we have $5b to spend(the number doesn't really matter but it is what we are working with)...  But you have a choice how to spend it...

Either way the $5b is going to stimulate the economy with all the benefits related to that the question is how do you spend it?...  That is the question that when answers shows the real intent.

Now a person can by a steak dinner or a Rolex or a steak dinner or whatever... Or they could use the money buy things like food, clothes, that they donate to the poor and needy (or just directly donate cash and let whatever charity do the stimulating spending)... 

Either way the economy is stimulated and jobs are created/maintained... at the same amount...

But in the later case the person also fulfills directly and personally the command Christ has given to help the poor... the first way does not.  The first one requires one to take credit for the natural result of capitalism for money they were going to spend anyway.

So if people want their expensive doodad or whatever.. then by all means get it.. stimulate the economy.. that is a good thing.. but if they need to salve their soul because of the expense by trying to point out how good their spending does for everyone else?  Then they are fooling themselves that they are doing the right thing.

 

Edited December 15, 2016 by estradling75

[omegaseamaster75]

2 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

 

So if people want their expensive doodad or whatever.. then by all means get it.. stimulate the economy.. that is a good thing.. but if they need to salve their soul because of the expense by trying to point out how good their spending does for everyone else?  Then they are fooling themselves that they are doing the right thing.

 

Buying an expensive doodad is neither a good or bad thing....it just is.  Some...not you say it's a bad thing, or to extravagant, well what makes it bad? My selfish nature to want nice things? OK I get that, but we are all selfish we all fight that battle.  I for one don't need to justify my expenses (salve my soul) as you put it.  I work hard and I should be able to enjoy the fruits of my labor any which way I see fit I make no personal justifications for my purchases.

At the end of the day these luxury items provide jobs to thousands who are able to support their families.  No justification needed it's a fact. If like you say people are trying to justify their worldly purchases by point this out I guess i agree with you. 

How much is to much for a watch or a pen? Who gets to decide? If I own a 5k watch am I a sinner? if so I'm keeping good company.....

[estradling75]

1 minute ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

At the end of the day these luxury items provide jobs to thousands who are able to support their families.  No justification needed it's a fact. If like you say people are trying to justify their worldly purchases by point this out I guess i agree with you. 

How much is to much for a watch or a pen? Who gets to decide? If I own a 5k watch am I a sinner? if so I'm keeping good company.....

Exactly if you want something and you can afford it (and it is legal) then it is your right to get it if you want... 

If someone disagrees with how you prioritize your spending that is their problem.

But trying to defend yourself from their criticism by saying how much you "help others" by stimulating the economy;  is a fundamentally, logically flawed, counter because that spending could have always been spent in ways that both stimulate and directly help (a twofer if you will)... which you could have done if that was your intent.

Instead of hiding behind flawed arguments we need to acknowledge that we made whatever purchase we made because we wanted it and we thought it was worth it. 

[Vort]

38 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

Instead of hiding behind flawed arguments we need to acknowledge that we made whatever purchase we made because we wanted it and we thought it was worth it.

And further acknowledge that the gospel of Jesus Christ is not "do as thou wilt".

[Guest MormonGator]

2 hours ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

If I own a 5k watch am I a sinner? 

You sure aren't my friend. I like nice things too, and there are plenty of us who do that also give to charity, tithe, etc etc. Have no guilt whatsoever. 

I'm not a watch guy, but I do have other expensive tastes like dinner out, frequent Disney trips  and season tickets to baseball games. So I know what you mean. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

 If I own a 5k watch am I a sinner? 

Since 2008, I have probably spent 5k on itunes downloads.  Unlike your investment, I have nothing to show for it, now that I can get the same content for free on Spotify... at least I didn't invest in Pogs...

Seriously, as long as it is legal and doesn't hurt anyone, I see no harm in buying something to make you happy, even if it is silly.  Just also pay tithing and give generously to the poor (but even if you don't do these things, it isn't any of my business)

 

Edited December 16, 2016 by DoctorLemon

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

3 hours ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

At the end of the day these luxury items provide jobs to thousands who are able to support their families.  No justification needed it's a fact. If like you say people are trying to justify their worldly purchases by point this out I guess i agree with you. 

How much is to much for a watch or a pen? Who gets to decide? If I own a 5k watch am I a sinner? if so I'm keeping good company.....

I never thought of it that way, about luxury items providing jobs. I think that is a good point. 

I also like your point about who gets to decide what is extravagant.  Since experiencing life in a third world country on my mission, I can see how much of what we take for granted here would be considered extravagant in other countries...big screen tvs, multiple computers, even paper towels.  

 

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

I can see how much of what we take for granted here would be considered extravagant in other countries...big screen tvs, multiple computers, even paper towels.  

Don't forget toilet paper.

[Guest MormonGator]

55 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

I never thought of it that way, about luxury items providing jobs. I think that is a good point. 

I also like your point about who gets to decide what is extravagant.  Since experiencing life in a third world country on my mission, I can see how much of what we take for granted here would be considered extravagant in other countries...big screen tvs, multiple computers, even paper towels.  

 

You are exactly right Lit. The blunt truth is that even the poor in America live far, far better than the poor in other countries. No, that's not me lacking compassion. It's the just the uncomfortable truth.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

53 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Don't forget toilet paper.

Ahhh, good point.  How about running water?  In Pakistan most families get their water from a hand pump.  And they don't have indoor bathrooms.  

[Guest MormonGator]

4 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

Ahhh, good point.  How about running water?  In Pakistan most families get their water from a hand pump.  And they don't have indoor bathrooms.  

 It's not just Pakistan either. The other really awkward truth is that it's easy to bash capitalism while you live in a country that has benefited greatly from....capitalism.

It's sort of like telling starving people to not eat food that isn't grown organically. Easy for you to say if you aren't starving, huh? 

 

Edited December 16, 2016 by MormonGator

[askandanswer]

Do people still use pens? What do they do with them? 

[zil]

6 hours ago, askandanswer said:

Do people still use pens? What do they do with them? 

 

[omegaseamaster75]

17 hours ago, estradling75 said:

Instead of hiding behind flawed arguments we need to acknowledge that we made whatever purchase we made because we wanted it and we thought it was worth it. 

This.

[askandanswer]

2 hours ago, zil said:

 

Given that most letters take more than one pen stroke to write, I'm guessing that this piece of literature could have been more efficiently created with key strokes than with pen strokes.

[zil]

35 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

Given that most letters take more than one pen stroke to write, I'm guessing that this piece of literature could have been more efficiently created with key strokes than with pen strokes.

 

[Guest MormonGator]

3 minutes ago, zil said:

 

If you think this is bad, you should see the "to-do" notes she leaves around the compound. Must take her two hours to write "Take out trash." 

(just playing @zil) 

[askandanswer]

On 12/17/2016 at 2:31 AM, zil said:

 

It just seems a bit odd that people would use eye gaugers and short knives to write with. 

[Vort]

2 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

It just seems a bit odd that people would use eye gaugers and short knives to write with. 

The pen is mightier than the sword, friend. (Or so say the writers. But I'm guessing that if you bring a pen and I bring a sword, I'm gonna win.)

[askandanswer]

On 12/17/2016 at 0:32 AM, unixknight said:

 

Bring it on. You bring your sword and I'll bring my pen....... and Unixknight