I'm confused by the 3 different levels in the Celestial Kingdom

[Guest]

All my life I've been confused by who qualifies for earch level in the Celestial Kingdom so this is just what my guess has always been since I thought of it at age 16. And remind you I know you have to be worthy:

Level 1 Lowest level: Baptized into the church and receive the Holy Ghost by confirmation where you will be a ministering angel

Level 2 Middle level : Receive temple initiatory and temple endowment where you will be a ministering angel

Level 3 Highest level where you can receive exaltation and have a continuation of the seeds forever and be a god : Be sealed to a spouse for time and all eternity, or die before the age of accountability or be born with mental disabilities that keep you from being accountable to sin.

 

So those are my honest beliefs that I feel good about. What say you? Take a guess don't just say I don't know, those answers are boring, actually make a guess who you think goes to what level.

[Guest]

My goal is obviously level 3 being exalted, but I know I'd be happy just making the Celestial Kingdom.

[An Investigator]

I personally don't think it will be as dry cut as that, I think if Heavenly Father wanted it to be,  then we would have known from the restoration.    I think as imperfect humans we need to categorise things into boxes, but being sealed to your spouse is no guarantee that you will be exalted.    In the end we are going to be one big spiders Web, sealed to each other all the way back to Adam and Eve, we just have to trust Heavenly Father when it's said we won't be placed where we won't be comfortable and the Apostles of the Lord who say nothing will be denied the faithful. 

[james12]

I personally believe that our understanding of three degrees within the celestial kingdom is an erroneous one. Joseph made a statement about it but it is only documented in one location by William Clayton. The statement is as follows, "In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees; and in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage]; and if he does not he cannot obtain it. (D&C 131:1-3). I find it much more likely that the term "celestial glory" in this instance refers to heaven in general, as in "heavenly glories". That would mean that Joseph was referring to all of the three kingdoms of glory (telestial, terestrial, and celestial) and that he was stating that in order to enter the highest of these, what we term today the "Celestial Kingdom", we would need to be married and sealed up unto eternal life. See more about this here.

Further, we know that there are many degrees and many kingdoms in the eternal realm as the Savior once testified. In the celestial kingdom I'm sure there are many many different degrees of glory. We must understand that the three different degrees of glory are simply three main divisions in heaven. The telestial is ruled by the Holy Ghost, the terestrial is ruled by the Son, and the Celestial is ruled by the Father. 

It is also not enough simply to go through the motions of being baptized, being confirmed, or being sealed. This is attested to in D&C 76 wherein it is said of those in the telestial glory, "These are they who say they are some of one and some of another - some of Christ and some of John, and some of Moses, and some of Elias, and some of Esaias, and some of Isaiah, and some of Enoch; but received not the gospel, neither the testimony of Jesus, neither the prophets, neither the everlasting covenant" (D&C 76: 100-101). Note that these say they are Christ's but it is clear that it never entered their hearts. These are those of the telestial sphere. 

I believe in order to enter the Celestial kingdom a person needs to be sealed up unto eternal life. This is more than simply entering into the form of eternal marriage with a spouse. Having read much of what Joseph Smith said, when he talks about sealing he talks about it more in terms of us receiving the sure word of prophecy (calling and election sure) not so much in kneeling across the altar with our spouse. For instance in the same D&C 130 he says, "The more sure word of prophecy means a man's knowing that he is sealed up unto eternal life, by revelation and the spirit of prophecy, through the power of the Holy Priesthood. It is impossible for a man to be saved in ignorance [ie. not knowing he has been sealed up to eternal life]." (D&C 130:5-6). Or during another occasion he was describing priesthood power. He said,

Quote

This power of Elijah is to that of Elias what in the architecture of the Temple of God those who seal or cement the Stone to their places are to those who cut or hew the stones the one preparing the way for the other to accomplish the work By this we are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise ie Elijah. To obtain this sealing is to make our calling and election sure which we ought to give all diligence to accomplish. (Franklin D. Richards "Scriptural Items," March 10, 1844, see Words of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p 335)

 So, at the end of this long post, I would say that to enter into the celestial kingdom means to be sealed up by the Holy Spirit of promise unto eternal life. If we obtain that promise from the Lord the storms of the adversary may beat upon us but we will not fall. At the end of our days we will obtain what we have previously been promised by the voice of the Lord himself and will enter into the celestial kingdom. 

[zil]

2 hours ago, james12 said:

Further, we know that there are many degrees and many kingdoms in the eternal realm as the Savior once testified. In the celestial kingdom I'm sure there are many many different degrees of glory.

I'm curious what scriptures lead you to the above.  I'm aware of scripture which talks of variable glory in the Telestial kingdom (as the stars).  I'm aware of scripture which speaks of one glory in the Celestial (as the sun) and one in the Terrestrial kingdom (as the moon).  I'm aware of the idea of three degrees of glory in the Celestial, though I question the interpretation, as you described.  Beyond that, I'm not aware of anything that leads me to believe the glory of those in the Celestial and Terrestrial kingdoms will vary.

 

8 hours ago, Zarahemla said:

Take a guess don't just say I don't know, those answers are boring, actually make a guess who you think goes to what level.

See Acts 17:21

Also 2 Timothy 3:7

Rhetorical questions: To what end do you want the "guesses" of random people on the internet?  What redeeming value will these guesses and the time spent on them hold?

Quote

Aristotle pointed out long ago that a shortage of knowledge is an intolerable state, and so the mind will do anything to escape it; in particular, it will invent knowledge if it has to. Experimenters have found that lack of information quickly breeds insecurity in a situation where any information is regarded as better than none. In that atmosphere, false information flourishes; and subjects in tests are "eager to listen to and believe any sort of preposterous nonsense." Why so? We repeat, because the very nature of man requires him to use his mind to capacity: "The mind or the intelligence which man possesses," says Joseph Smith, "is co-equal with God himself." What greater crime than the minimizing of such capacity?

-- Hugh Nibley, Approaching Zion, Chapter 3  (Emphasis by zil)

Be careful that in your desire to alleviate boredom (or whatever), you don't invent or fall prey to false doctrine.  Study is just fine, being receptive to revelation is good, but God doesn't reveal things just to satisfy our curiosity.  Personally, when I have figured out how to internalize and act upon all that has been revealed (like Matthew 5, for example), then I'll start worrying about what has yet to be revealed.  At this rate, I expect to cross that bridge several thousand years after I die.

Edited December 23, 2016 by zil

[james12]

15 minutes ago, zil said:

I'm curious what scriptures lead you to the above.  I'm aware of scripture which talks of variable glory in the Telestial kingdom (as the stars).  I'm aware of scripture which speaks of one glory in the Celestial (as the sun) and one in the Terrestrial kingdom (as the moon).  I'm aware of the idea of three degrees of glory in the Celestial, though I question the interpretation, as you described.  Beyond that, I'm not aware of anything that leads me to believe the glory of those in the Celestial and Terrestrial kingdoms will vary.

"In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you." John 14:2

[zil]

Just now, james12 said:

"In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you." John 14:2

There's nothing there which implies those mansions vary in glory.

[james12]

2 minutes ago, zil said:

There's nothing there which implies those mansions vary in glory.

Consider: Here on earth we are all at different states, in the telestial kingdom we have been told there are different glories, we know there are three great divisions in heaven, and the Savior told us there are many mansions. Given all that, do you really believe that each persons glory will be exactly the same in the celestial kingdom? That Christ himself has the same glory as us? 

[zil]

17 minutes ago, james12 said:

Consider: Here on earth we are all at different states, in the telestial kingdom we have been told there are different glories, we know there are three great divisions in heaven, and the Savior told us there are many mansions. Given all that, do you really believe that each persons glory will be exactly the same in the celestial kingdom?

See D&C 76:96-98, but really the whole section.

17 minutes ago, james12 said:

That Christ himself has the same glory as us?

There are other scriptures, in addition to D&C 76 which cause me not to have a problem with the idea that he does (e.g. being co-heirs).  There are also scriptures which talk about (in my interpretation) the glory of those who are exalted adding to the glory of the Son, and his adding to the glory of the Father.  I have no concerns either way - if God and Christ have more glory than the rest of us, I don't think it alters what above verses are saying (as they are talking about our exaltation); nor would it be blasphemous for us to receive all that God has - the scriptures teach us we will, and Paul addresses that very concern (though in relation to Christ).

This is one of those areas where I'm content to know what the scriptures say (which describe the glory of the kingdoms we can inherit) and let the details wait.

Edited December 23, 2016 by zil

[james12]

As more evidence consider this from Brigham Young:

Quote

The kingdoms that God has prepared are innumerable. Each and every intelligent being will be judged according to the deeds done in the body, according to his works, faith, desires, and honesty or dishonesty before God; every trait of his character will receive its just merit or demerit, and he will be judged according to the law of heaven as revealed; and God has prepared places suited to every class. The Savior said to his disciples—”In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.” How many kingdoms there are has not been told to us: they are innumerable. (JD 8:154)

 

[zil]

1 minute ago, james12 said:

As more evidence consider this from Brigham Young:

It seems to me he is speaking of all of God's creations, not just humans born to this planet.  D&C 76, on the other hand, is scripture regarding humans born to this planet.  If the two seem to conflict (I don't think they do), I will give the scripture greater weight.

[Jane_Doe]

10 hours ago, Zarahemla said:

So those are my honest beliefs that I feel good about. What say you? Take a guess don't just say I don't know, those answers are boring, actually make a guess who you think goes to what level.

* Warning: incoming bluntness*

@Zarahemla we've already been over this.  STOP.  Stop trying to force your relationship with Christ into a To Do list.  Stop obsessing over things that totally don't matter in the present when you're neglecting the big thing (like how to recognize the Holy Ghost).  

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

* Warning: incoming bluntness*

@Zarahemla we've already been over this.  STOP.  Stop trying to force your relationship with Christ into a To Do list.  Stop obsessing over things that totally don't matter in the present when you're neglecting the big thing (like how to recognize the Holy Ghost).  

I think we should all be focused on trying to make the top level of the Celestial Kingdom though and I was just curious how someone could be worthy enough to make the Celestial Kingdom but only worthy enough to be a ministering angel.

[Vort]

6 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

I think we should all be focused on trying to make the top level of the Celestial Kingdom though and I was just curious how someone could be worthy enough to make the Celestial Kingdom but only worthy enough to be a ministering angel.

james12 suggested that we misunderstand the nature of the "degrees" of the celestial kingdom because we misunderstand the wording of the revelation, specifically Section 131 vis-á-vis Section 76. If his explanation is correct, then the answer to your question is that all who receive the glory of the celestial kingdom are exalted. I suspect this is the case. But whether it is or not, the question itself is one of mechanics, and ought not trouble you.

[Jane_Doe]

16 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

I think we should all be focused on trying to make the top level of the Celestial Kingdom though and I was just curious how someone could be worthy enough to make the Celestial Kingdom but only worthy enough to be a ministering angel.

You are trying to force your relationship with Christ into a "To Do" list.  In doing so, you are DESTROYING your real relationship with Christ and yourself.  

STOP IT.  

Edited December 23, 2016 by Jane_Doe

[wenglund]

4 hours ago, zil said:

I'm curious what scriptures lead you to the above.  I'm aware of scripture which talks of variable glory in the Telestial kingdom (as the stars).  I'm aware of scripture which speaks of one glory in the Celestial (as the sun) and one in the Terrestrial kingdom (as the moon). 

Not that it is vitally important for us to know in mortality, but doesn't the moon, itself, differ in glory over the course of its phases? Doesn't the sun also differ in glory with its flares?

[zil]

32 minutes ago, wenglund said:

Not that it is vitally important for us to know in mortality, but doesn't the moon, itself, differ in glory over the course of its phases? Doesn't the sun also differ in glory with its flares?

But the scripture makes it pretty clear that it means one glory.  It says "sun" not "suns" and "moon" not "moons" and "one glory".  If one tries hard enough, they can find a flaw in any analogy.  IMO, the meaning of these verses, combined with everything else taught on this topic in the scriptures, is pretty clear.

ETA: The fact that "stars" and variable glory are clearly distinguished in the verse about the telestial glory strengthens the singular in the other two verses.

Edited December 23, 2016 by zil

[wenglund]

6 minutes ago, zil said:

But the scripture makes it pretty clear that it means one glory.  It says "sun" not "suns" and "moon" not "moons" and "one glory".  If one tries hard enough, they can find a flaw in any analogy.  IMO, the meaning of these verses, combined with everything else taught on this topic in the scriptures, is pretty clear.

ETA: The fact that "stars" and variable glory are clearly distinguished in the verse about the telestial glory strengthens the singular in the other two verses.

Again, not that it matters much, I am not sure you understood my question. I wasn't speaking of multiple moons, but of one moon with varied or different "degrees" of glory through the course of its phases, and one sun with varied or different degrees of glory with its flares. Is it possible that the word "glorieY could apply to bothe general categories as well as subcategories or arrays within the general categories? Isn't one of the great values of analogies is that they don't lend themselves to exactitude and dogma, thus allowing for flexibility and broadening of perspective?

Thanks, Wade

[zil]

2 minutes ago, wenglund said:

Again, not that it matters much, I am not sure you understood my question. I wasn't speaking of multiple moons, but of one moon with varied or different "degrees" of glory through the course of its phases, and one sun with varied or different degrees of glory with its flares. Is it possible that the word "glorieY could apply to bothe general categories as well as subcategories or arrays within the general categories? Isn't one of the great values of analogies is that they don't lend themselves to exactitude and dogma, thus allowing for flexibility and broadening of perspective?

Thanks, Wade

I know you were not speaking of multiple moons or suns.  I understand what you were saying.  I find no support in scripture (when looking at the whole of it) for that interpretation (and I find logic errors with that interpretation which I cannot resolve, whereas I find no logic errors in the other interpretation).  Simple as that.  We disagree.

[Guest]

I disagree with only those exalted make the Celestial Kingdom because it's pretty clear at the end of the endowment ceremony you know what I'm talking about (I won't get into temple content). I thought baptism or confirmation or at least what you do at the end of the endowment session symbolizes that you gain entrance into the Celestial Kingdom, so I don't believe only sealed through marriage exalted people occupy the Celestial Kingdom. I do believe D&C 131 refers to 3 different levels within the Celestial Kingdom itself.

[Guest]

It's interesting that the whole concept of degrees within the Celestial glory was only mentioned to William Clayton who decided to write it down in his journal. What if he didn't write it down or what possibly didn't he write down that Joseph may have mentioned to him?

[Guest]

And why wouldn't the 3 levels of the Celestial Kingdom be mentioned in D&C 76?

[Guest]

Talk to your therapist about it.

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

Talk to your therapist about it.

Do you think he would know? Or is that a shot at my mental health problems?

[Jane_Doe]

31 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

Do you think he would know? Or is that a shot at my mental health problems?

I'm obviously not Eowyn and can't answer for her.  But I* would kindly suggest that your interest in developing a Celestial To Do List is not a mere interest, but a unhealthy obsession that is destructive for you and your relationship with Christ.  I would suggest that you speak with your counselor on the matter (again, I applaud your courage for going to counseling and getting help).

*Obviously I'm not a trained counselor, just a concerned person on the forum.