The War in Heaven

[Guest]

I know the War in Heaven was in pre mortality when Satan rebelled and convinced 1/3 of the spirits to follow him, and I assume the war and kicking Satan and his minions out of heaven wasn't a physical conflict, but more likely a debate and spiritual power to kick them out, but I have a question about the future war. During the Millennium Satan will be bound for 1,000 years, but then at the end Satan will be loosed for a season to fight and convince more people to become Sons of Perdition before finally being defeated by Michael/Adam. My question is how will the war at the end of the Millennium when Satan is loosed for another season be fought? Will there be a real physical battle with armies or will it be more of a debate like the pre mortal council in heaven and rebellion was? And can people who have already lived on the earth like us be overcome by Satan?

[Guest]

It appears some spirits will be untested during the Millennium and then it appears some will fall to become a Son of Perdition when Satan is loosed again.

[Anddenex]

1 hour ago, Zarahemla said:

My question is how will the war at the end of the Millennium when Satan is loosed for another season be fought? Will there be a real physical battle with armies or will it be more of a debate like the pre mortal council in heaven and rebellion was? And can people who have already lived on the earth like us be overcome by Satan?

It will be a fight for the souls of men, similar to Satan's initial rebellion. At this point, I can't see any reason it will be a battle using weapons during the Millennium.

[Guest]

47 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

It will be a fight for the souls of men, similar to Satan's initial rebellion. At this point, I can't see any reason it will be a battle using weapons during the Millennium.

Good point I mean Satan and his angels don't have bodlies so they can't get physical with people with bodies. 

[Vort]

2 hours ago, Zarahemla said:

I know the War in Heaven was in pre mortality when Satan rebelled and convinced 1/3 of the spirits to follow him, and I assume the war and kicking Satan and his minions out of heaven wasn't a physical conflict, but more likely a debate and spiritual power to kick them out, but I have a question about the future war. During the Millennium Satan will be bound for 1,000 years, but then at the end Satan will be loosed for a season to fight and convince more people to become Sons of Perdition before finally being defeated by Michael/Adam. My question is how will the war at the end of the Millennium when Satan is loosed for another season be fought? Will there be a real physical battle with armies or will it be more of a debate like the pre mortal council in heaven and rebellion was? And can people who have already lived on the earth like us be overcome by Satan?

The underlying assumption here is that physical war is "real", what with the killing and maiming and torture and suffering and such. So we think of the premortal "war in heaven" as somehow being less real, or more accurately, less a real war. People say it was a "war of words", which is itself a figurative expression. But my opinion is that the "war in heaven" was much more "warlike" and awful than even our mortal wars are. I suspect that both the immediacy of present suffering and the consequences in the aftermath are far more severe in the premortal and future war between the Saints and the devils.

[CV75]

3 hours ago, Zarahemla said:

I know the War in Heaven was in pre mortality when Satan rebelled and convinced 1/3 of the spirits to follow him, and I assume the war and kicking Satan and his minions out of heaven wasn't a physical conflict, but more likely a debate and spiritual power to kick them out, but I have a question about the future war. During the Millennium Satan will be bound for 1,000 years, but then at the end Satan will be loosed for a season to fight and convince more people to become Sons of Perdition before finally being defeated by Michael/Adam. My question is how will the war at the end of the Millennium when Satan is loosed for another season be fought? Will there be a real physical battle with armies or will it be more of a debate like the pre mortal council in heaven and rebellion was? And can people who have already lived on the earth like us be overcome by Satan?

The same forces at work after the Millennium are the same ones at work just prior to the Lord's Second Coming (they are called Gog an Magog in both time periods). My observation is that the influence of Satan (the spirit of contention) is manifest in both physical and doctrinal contentions which often escalates into violence, and sometimes translates on the large scale into ideological and physical wars between nations. I think this is why the Church is somewhat focused on religious freedom of late. The saints will take their cues from the prophets as to how to respond to these wars.

Edited December 29, 2016 by CV75

[Fether]

5 hours ago, CV75 said:

The same forces at work after the Millennium are the same ones at work just prior to the Lord's Second Coming... the influence of Satan (the spirit of contention) is manifest in both physical and doctrinal contentions ... and sometimes translates on the large scale into ideological and physical wars between nations.

Satan is going to use whatever he can to drive us away from Christ, and we all have different weaknesses. Some will be able to withstand violence, but fall to sins of morality. Others will stand strong against theological debates, but when war comes, they may fall. Satan will use every tool he has, physical and spiritual (they really are the same though), to conquer is individually.

[Larry Cotrell]

Revelation 20:7-10

"And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

Battle sounds like physical fighting to me.

 

Edited December 29, 2016 by Larry Cotrell

[Guest MormonGator]

18 hours ago, Vort said:

The underlying assumption here is that physical war is "real", what with the killing and maiming and torture and suffering and such. So we think of the premortal "war in heaven" as somehow being less real, or more accurately, less a real war. People say it was a "war of words", which is itself a figurative expression. But my opinion is that the "war in heaven" was much more "warlike" and awful than even our mortal wars are. I suspect that both the immediacy of present suffering and the consequences in the aftermath are far more severe in the premortal and future war between the Saints and the devils.

@Vort should know. Dude is so old that he has first hand knowledge of this conflict....

[Traveler]

18 hours ago, CV75 said:

The same forces at work after the Millennium are the same ones at work just prior to the Lord's Second Coming (they are called Gog an Magog in both time periods). My observation is that the influence of Satan (the spirit of contention) is manifest in both physical and doctrinal contentions which often escalates into violence, and sometimes translates on the large scale into ideological and physical wars between nations. I think this is why the Church is somewhat focused on religious freedom of late. The saints will take their cues from the prophets as to how to respond to these wars.

 

Thought you might be interested to know that anciently Magog was a land or country presided over by a king that was called Gog.  What is interesting is that the land of Magog is currently occupied by ISIS and that ISIS claims to have established a “Caliphate” which is a Muslim kingdom presided over by a Caliph which is a political and religious equivalent of a Christian Priest – King.  Note that Jesus is believed by Christians to be both a Priest and King and that in his fist advent he served as priest and will return for his second advent as king.

Islam has something similar – believing Mohamed will return and to inherit a caliphate.  Some believe that Jesus will return as a prophet to assist Mohamed in uniting Christians into the caliphate.

 

The Traveler

[CV75]

39 minutes ago, Traveler said:

Thought you might be interested to know that anciently Magog was a land or country presided over by a king that was called Gog.  What is interesting is that the land of Magog is currently occupied by ISIS and that ISIS claims to have established a “Caliphate” which is a Muslim kingdom presided over by a Caliph which is a political and religious equivalent of a Christian Priest – King.  Note that Jesus is believed by Christians to be both a Priest and King and that in his fist advent he served as priest and will return for his second advent as king.

Islam has something similar – believing Mohamed will return and to inherit a caliphate.  Some believe that Jesus will return as a prophet to assist Mohamed in uniting Christians into the caliphate.

 

The Traveler

Yes, thank you. I take their New Testament usage to refer to those nations "in the four quarters of the earth" that are expected to be hostile to the saints; ISIS would certainly be a current example, and who knows what they will evolve into.

[Blackmarch]

On December 28, 2016 at 2:43 PM, Zarahemla said:

I know the War in Heaven was in pre mortality when Satan rebelled and convinced 1/3 of the spirits to follow him, and I assume the war and kicking Satan and his minions out of heaven wasn't a physical conflict, but more likely a debate and spiritual power to kick them out, but I have a question about the future war. During the Millennium Satan will be bound for 1,000 years, but then at the end Satan will be loosed for a season to fight and convince more people to become Sons of Perdition before finally being defeated by Michael/Adam. My question is how will the war at the end of the Millennium when Satan is loosed for another season be fought? Will there be a real physical battle with armies or will it be more of a debate like the pre mortal council in heaven and rebellion was? And can people who have already lived on the earth like us be overcome by Satan?

We have very little knowledge of the pre life war. According to the iroquis (misspelled sorry) indians thats how we got our moon. So no idea, perhaps it was a great debate... Perhaps it entailed more than just a verbal exchange, i have no idea. As for the post millenial one its going to mak all previous wars on this world look tame. Yes it will be at least physical.

The war in heaven appears in many of the older religions.

 

We did not have a physical body or world and such resources to use in the first one, that is going to be different in the second one.

Edited January 15, 2017 by Blackmarch