Saying A Prayer

[inthearmsofsleep]

I went to a family home evening tonight at another member's house, and it was all young single adults. They asked me to give the opening prayer.

Backstory: I'm on church probation, and my bishop said I'm not to give prayers in certain situations. I can't give prayers in Sunday school, and I've refused to on several (very awkward and uncomfortable) occasions. However, he said that I could give a prayer if they asked me to at the missionary preparation class that I have yet to attend (tomorrow). I think he also said it's okay if I give the prayer while I'm on team-ups with the missionaries.

I was stunned.... didn't know what to say.... and I said "okay." There were only 7 people there, and I felt for a second that it wasn't wrong. My sister whispered "can you?" and I nodded "I guess so". I gave the prayer, shaky and stumbling on my words, and wondering if I was committing a serious sin.

I feel worthy, and I feel like I'm nearing being ready to take the sacrament again and be a full member of the church. I honestly don't know if what I did was wrong.

That being the case, I assume that it won't be held against me for this instance, but that I should ask the bishop what to do if I'm in that situation again. I'm just checking to see what you people think, and what you really would have done in my position.

[Gwen]

i am by no means a bishop or have ever been a bishop. lol so i don't really know if there are specific rules on that. my opinion, from what i can understand of the situation by your post, is that you did nothing wrong. if you should have said no i would imagine the bishop will insturct you to next time, but any "punishment" for having done so seemes unrealistic. the repentance process is very much determined by the individual, with the bishops help. the last question to go to the temple is "do you think you are worthy". if you feel worthy, that says a lot to me. my other thinking is you were told you could pray in some situations but not others. FHE is normally that, a family event. you would be able to pray in a family event? i think it should be seen as the same thing. just my opinions and quick thoughts, should talk to the bishop though. hang in there. sounds like you are really striving to improve yourself, that's wonderful.

[AtlantaD]

Being on church probation is much different than being disfellowshipped or excommunicated in that any restrictions placed upon the member is soley at the discretion of the presiding authority. Thus in your situation your bishop outlined situations in which you could and could not offer public prayers. Such variability is not the case in situations where the member has been disfellowshipped or excommunicated. Having served as a bishop, I would say that offering a prayer in a FHE setting like you mentioned was not wrong. Sure it was awkward for you and I imagine that was becuase you were self-conscious. In the future if you have any questions as to what the boundaries are regarding your participation in the church, I would suggest that you speak directly with your bishop as he desires nothing more than to see you return to full fellowship in the church.

[inthearmsofsleep]

Thanks for both of your input, it means a lot to me. I plan on speaking to the bishop about it, just to refresh my memory on what I can and can't do until I become a full member again. It's all very confusing at the moment because we changed bishops, and I haven't spoken very in-depth to the new one concerning my past problems. However, before the old bishop left, he told me that I'd have to wait another year until I could become a full member again and the end date for that would be next May. I suppose it makes a greater difference because I want to serve a mission, and the probation period is probably longer than if I wasn't to take on such a position to represent Christ and our church so directly. I said from the very beginning that I'd be willing to do anything to obtain forgiveness, and that's the attitude I'll maintain until I do.

[Moksha]

Being limited in your public communication with God does not seem right somehow.

[AtlantaD]

Being limited in your public communication with God does not seem right somehow.

I can see your point. However within the context of the "Church" the term "public" is meant as situations in which the setting is an LDS Church "public setting" (ie: Sacrament meeting, Sunday School, etc.) and secular "public settings" where the individual has been asked (or volunteered) to offer a prayer as an official representative of the LDS Church.

As an individual baptized member of the LDS Church, a person is entitled (and encouraged) to offer prayers when situations arise with family and friends regardless of any formal Church restrictions.

[sixpacktr]

Being limited in your public communication with God does not seem right somehow.

nobody is saying you can't pray. Just not as the official mouthpiece for the congregation/class.

Being able to pray in sacrament meeting is not a 'right'. You might have well as stated that not being able to pass the sacrament while on probation or disfellowshipment isn't right either.

It is a privilege to stand in for others and administer. We must remain as worthy as possible to do so...

[russell]

if you felt worthy to say a prayer,

then there is a 99% chance that it was ok.

Either way, "serious sin" is not something I would label it.

[StrawberryFields]

Interesting topic.

I don't know much about church probation, is it different than Bishops probation?

What are the guidelines?

What determines duration?

Are the facts of the probation given from one Bishop to the next?

[Palerider]

Interesting topic.

I don't know much about church probation, is it different than Bishops probation?

What are the guidelines?

What determines duration?

Are the facts of the probation given from one Bishop to the next?

there isn't much of a difference.....one is more severe than the other....The Bishop decides the guidelines one must follow etc....Church probation or Informal Probation could be more severe than Bishops Probation. As a Bishop you like to help the person out before going to a Ward or Stake Disciplinary Council. You should always let the Stake President know what is going on with any type of discipline.

[inthearmsofsleep]

I thought I should come on here and update you guys on my situation. I spoke with the bishop today (somehow he always knows when I'm meaning to talk to him.... he asked me first) and found out that it was okay! In fact, he said I'm allowed to pray in any other circumstance that a person asks me to. I was so overjoyed at that news, I forgot to ask him when I'd be able to start taking the sacrament again, though I'll ask him when I get the chance. As someone else said, it's not limiting your communication with God, it's limiting your position to be speaking for others to God. Also, it's not often that one feels worthy to give a prayer but is told not to do so. The guidelines that a bishop provides are always for our benefit to prevent further sin and help us on our way back to righteousness. There is a way back!.. and it's wonderful feeling like I'm actually getting there.

[pam]

I thought I should come on here and update you guys on my situation. I spoke with the bishop today (somehow he always knows when I'm meaning to talk to him.... he asked me first) and found out that it was okay! In fact, he said I'm allowed to pray in any other circumstance that a person asks me to. I was so overjoyed at that news, I forgot to ask him when I'd be able to start taking the sacrament again, though I'll ask him when I get the chance. As someone else said, it's not limiting your communication with God, it's limiting your position to be speaking for others to God. Also, it's not often that one feels worthy to give a prayer but is told not to do so. The guidelines that a bishop provides are always for our benefit to prevent further sin and help us on our way back to righteousness. There is a way back!.. and it's wonderful feeling like I'm actually getting there.

Very awesome.

[inthearmsofsleep]

<div class='quotemain'>

I thought I should come on here and update you guys on my situation. I spoke with the bishop today (somehow he always knows when I'm meaning to talk to him.... he asked me first) and found out that it was okay! In fact, he said I'm allowed to pray in any other circumstance that a person asks me to. I was so overjoyed at that news, I forgot to ask him when I'd be able to start taking the sacrament again, though I'll ask him when I get the chance. As someone else said, it's not limiting your communication with God, it's limiting your position to be speaking for others to God. Also, it's not often that one feels worthy to give a prayer but is told not to do so. The guidelines that a bishop provides are always for our benefit to prevent further sin and help us on our way back to righteousness. There is a way back!.. and it's wonderful feeling like I'm actually getting there.

Very awesome.

Yeah, tell me about it!

[the_jason]

if you felt worthy to say a prayer,

then there is a 99% chance that it was ok.

Is "99% chance" a proven statistic, or just something you pulled out of the air?

[snipe123]

I went to a family home evening tonight at another member's house, and it was all young single adults. They asked me to give the opening prayer.

Backstory: I'm on church probation, and my bishop said I'm not to give prayers in certain situations. I can't give prayers in Sunday school, and I've refused to on several (very awkward and uncomfortable) occasions. However, he said that I could give a prayer if they asked me to at the missionary preparation class that I have yet to attend (tomorrow). I think he also said it's okay if I give the prayer while I'm on team-ups with the missionaries.

I was stunned.... didn't know what to say.... and I said "okay." There were only 7 people there, and I felt for a second that it wasn't wrong. My sister whispered "can you?" and I nodded "I guess so". I gave the prayer, shaky and stumbling on my words, and wondering if I was committing a serious sin.

I feel worthy, and I feel like I'm nearing being ready to take the sacrament again and be a full member of the church. I honestly don't know if what I did was wrong.

That being the case, I assume that it won't be held against me for this instance, but that I should ask the bishop what to do if I'm in that situation again. I'm just checking to see what you people think, and what you really would have done in my position.

I am currently disfellowshipped with the same restrictions...I cannot have a calling, take the sacrament, speak in sacrament(give a talk in other words) or give public prayers, but I am allowed and encouraged to participate in class...I told my Elders Quroum President right away, just so he would know and to help avoid embarrassment...Of course on Sunday I was asked to give the closing prayer in Gospel Doctrine...I did it, rather quickly...and have made a note to talk to the teacher to avoid it in the future...feel kinda bad about it, but my prayer is just as good as anothers and I feel to refuse in the moment would have served as a distraction to everyone else who was present...Like I said, this problem should be avoided in the future because I will talk to the instructor in the meantime, I don't think God or The Stake President will be to upset with me...nor do I think he would be with you...But we should take steps to see that the people who need to know are aware so that they do not call on us...

[Old Tex]

I am currently disfellowshipped with the same restrictions...I cannot have a calling, take the sacrament, speak in sacrament(give a talk in other words) or give public prayers, but I am allowed and encouraged to participate in class...I told my Elders Quroum President right away, just so he would know and to help avoid embarrassment...

Isaac,

Just so folks on this thread will know, there is a difference between disfellowshipment and formal probation. If a disiplanary council determines disfellowshipment, the record of the meeting is sent to the stake president and then forwarded to SLC where one's membership record is so noted. This is done so if the person moves into a different ward before the time of the disfellowshipment has ended, (usually one year) the new Bishop is notified by his ward clerk when the record arrives.

There is also both formal and informal probation where disfellowshippment if not warrented.

But, one thing to remember about any action, it is designed to help one make a needed correction in their life. It is not a "punishment". It is an opportunity given in love to help us stop for a minute and consider where our life is going and to decide if it's going where we really want it to go. If not, we can then make the mid course corrections we sometimes need to get back on the path again.

As both a member of the Bishopric, and as a ward clerk for many years, I have been involved in a number of these councils and every time a person would heed the council given, they came out a stronger and more mature person. I know that you will too.

[snipe123]

I am currently disfellowshipped with the same restrictions...I cannot have a calling, take the sacrament, speak in sacrament(give a talk in other words) or give public prayers, but I am allowed and encouraged to participate in class...I told my Elders Quroum President right away, just so he would know and to help avoid embarrassment...

Isaac,

Just so folks on this thread will know, there is a difference between disfellowshipment and formal probation. If a disiplanary council determines disfellowshipment, the record of the meeting is sent to the stake president and then forwarded to SLC where one's membership record is so noted. This is done so if the person moves into a different ward before the time of the disfellowshipment has ended, (usually one year) the new Bishop is notified by his ward clerk when the record arrives.

There is also both formal and informal probation where disfellowshippment if not warrented.

But, one thing to remember about any action, it is designed to help one make a needed correction in their life. It is not a "punishment". It is an opportunity given in love to help us stop for a minute and consider where our life is going and to decide if it's going where we really want it to go. If not, we can then make the mid course corrections we sometimes need to get back on the path again.

As both a member of the Bishopric, and as a ward clerk for many years, I have been involved in a number of these councils and every time a person would heed the council given, they came out a stronger and more mature person. I know that you will too.

I have expressed similar sentiments on other threads...

[shanstress70]

Yes, you should have refused. God does not want to hear prayers from someone who has messed up... only those perfect people... there are so many.

[Laureltree]

Yes, you should have refused. God does not want to hear prayers from someone who has messed up... only those perfect people... there are so many.

Shan,

I understand what you are saying.... but his sincereity is good, its apart of his role in the church and apart of the forgiveness process, if he wouldnt have questioned it then I would have wondered was he being sincere..... but his heart is oviously in the right place....... I think you did good questioning it, dont stress about this situation..Talk to your bishop and see what he saids. You were put in a very awkward situation....Hopefully you will clear things up soon so you wont be put there again..Hugs hope all is good.

[Guest WhoShotJS]

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