The Folk Prophet Posted April 18, 2017 Report Share Posted April 18, 2017 10 minutes ago, runewell said: All of us have failed to keep the Lord's commandments, therefore we will not be saved? Hmm. I think I'm losing interest in this conversation. Vort 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
person0 Posted April 18, 2017 Report Share Posted April 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, estradling75 said: I came across an analogy of the atonement I thought worked pretty well. A child was getting piano lessons. The child had no way to pay for the lessons. The parent paid for the lesson that the child could in no way do, but then made their own terms for the child. Namely that the child had to practice every day what was being taught. Christ is the parent. We are the child, there is no way we can pay the price for our sins, but we can give Christ what he asks for. And that is for use to practice what he teaches us everyday. Yes and if the child doesn't ever practice as was agreed, the parent will stop paying for the lessons. Just as if we decide to stop keeping the commandments, we can 'fall from grace'. Excellent analogy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runewell Posted April 18, 2017 Report Share Posted April 18, 2017 OK hearing your perspective has been helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted April 18, 2017 Report Share Posted April 18, 2017 31 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said: Hmm. I think I'm losing interest in this conversation. That's pretty much where I'm at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted April 18, 2017 Report Share Posted April 18, 2017 (edited) I have (perhaps) a very different view. I do not think the question of “making it” is even a valid question. I would proport that if someone is the kind to “coast” if they know they have made it – then they would be much happier and better off “coasting” in a non-Celestial Kingdom governed by laws that would make coasting a perfect fit for them. I do not believe we will stand before G-d at our “final judgment” not quite good enough for what anyone should have accomplished. I believe we will council with G-d to determine if we have finished and completed what we want and intend to accomplish. I do not believe G-d will force anyone to any existence and society of covenants and laws they do not intend and want to live by. Those that feel Celestial laws and being a saint is restrictive to things they enjoy most – will find laws and covenants much more liberating to their desires and passions. I think many are confused and worried about things that do not really matter. Unlike making in the NBA – winning a starting position is not what the plan of salvation is all about. In fact, it appears to me – it is not about obtaining anything for yourself but more the joy (if there is joy) in sacrificing for others. That is assuming Celestial is your goal. The Traveler Edited April 18, 2017 by Traveler a mustard seed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted April 18, 2017 Report Share Posted April 18, 2017 7 minutes ago, Traveler said: I do not think the question of “making it” is even a valid question. Bingo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 *Putting on admin hat* May I just put out a friendly reminder that this particular section of the forums is an LDS Gospel Forum and should always reflect LDS doctrine/teachings/beliefs in the responses. This is NOT a forum for debate between LDS doctrine and non LDS doctrine. If you aren't LDS and want to pursue a topic, start a thread in the Christian Beliefs section. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 18 minutes ago, pam said: *Putting on admin hat* May I just put out a friendly reminder that this particular section of the forums is an LDS Gospel Forum and should always reflect LDS doctrine/teachings/beliefs in the responses. This is NOT a forum for debate between LDS doctrine and non LDS doctrine. If you aren't LDS and want to pursue a topic, start a thread in the Christian Beliefs section. Thanks. So, we can't talk about KFC either? Dang! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a mustard seed Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) I read a book recently, Following Christ by Stephen E. Robinson and in it, he describes being saved and entering into the kingdom of God as being achieved at baptism. We repent, we're baptized, and receive the Holy Ghost and we're confirmed a part of the kingdom as we accept Christ as our Savior and take upon us His name. We are in. No worries. So long as we keep to the covenant(by continuing to repent(and implicit in that isn't to repeat offenses without trying to do better in the future but to use repentance to constantly correct, progress, and improve)) then we are "safe" in our inheritance. The whole point of works and following Christ's example is to not only build and strengthen our own faith and that of others but to force the natural man, the physical body to submit to the Spirit. We came down here to gain a body and to learn to control it and to be tested in our faith in God. We do that by submitting to His will, We cannot succeed without Him, after all. I haven't finished the book but that struck me as a new way of looking at it that sort of explains the whole works and faith thing. Like, looking at the two things as separate parts of a whole. Edited April 19, 2017 by a mustard seed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runewell Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 9 hours ago, pam said: *Putting on admin hat* May I just put out a friendly reminder that this particular section of the forums is an LDS Gospel Forum and should always reflect LDS doctrine/teachings/beliefs in the responses. This is NOT a forum for debate between LDS doctrine and non LDS doctrine. If you aren't LDS and want to pursue a topic, start a thread in the Christian Beliefs section. Thanks. The subtitle for this thread is "Discuss LDS teachings. Ask questions about LDS theology or doctrine." I think you'll find I was asking questions about LDS theology. Perhaps you should have that subtitle modified to say that no Christian concepts are allowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 18 minutes ago, runewell said: The subtitle for this thread is "Discuss LDS teachings. Ask questions about LDS theology or doctrine." I think you'll find I was asking questions about LDS theology. Perhaps you should have that subtitle modified to say that no Christian concepts are allowed. There is a difference between asking questions and debating the LDS beliefs and doctrine that are presented. It was just a reminder to everyone. And thank you for your suggestion for the subtitle. There are probably a few updates we need to do on the site. Most of the descriptions have been around since the site started several years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 9 hours ago, a mustard seed said: I read a book recently, Following Christ by Stephen E. Robinson and in it, he describes being saved and entering into the kingdom of God as being achieved at baptism. We repent, we're baptized, and receive the Holy Ghost and we're confirmed a part of the kingdom as we accept Christ as our Savior and take upon us His name. We are in. No worries. So long as we keep to the covenant(by continuing to repent(and implicit in that isn't to repeat offenses without trying to do better in the future but to use repentance to constantly correct, progress, and improve)) then we are "safe" in our inheritance. This idea, of course, depends on how one defines the words being used. What is "saved"? What is the "kingdom of God"? Obviously these terms (particularly "saved") can get a bit muddled as they are not always used consistently, even in scripture. But we know that God's goal for us, and what our goal should be, is exaltation. I would dare say that if one replaced the baptismal ordinance in the concept above with the marriage sealing ordinance and replaced "saved" with "exalted" then the idea would be both clearer and closer to accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 2 hours ago, pam said: There is a difference between asking questions and debating the LDS beliefs and doctrine that are presented. It was just a reminder to everyone. And thank you for your suggestion for the subtitle. There are probably a few updates we need to do on the site. Most of the descriptions have been around since the site started several years ago. Be sure to put, in big, bold, letters: "We are NOT a Christian board. No Christianity allowed here!!!" zil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 Just now, Just_A_Guy said: Be sure to put, in big, bold, letters: "We are NOT a Christian board. No Christianity allowed here!!!" Go drink a root beer or something. Sheesh. zil and Just_A_Guy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 @runewell is still here? Darn. There's 25¢ I'll never see again. zil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) 18 minutes ago, pam said: Go drink a root beer or something. Sheesh. But if I choose root beer, rather than vodka or crystal meth; then I'm trying to avoid sin, and trying to "earn" my salvation, and thereby signaling my lack of faith in Jesus and my truly damned state. Logically, if I really want to be saved, I must take each and every opportunity to sin as flagrantly and flamboyantly as possible. Anything less equals a reliance on my own merits. The Bible clearly says that the path to true humility and salvation, lies in giving my life over to sin. So rather than getting a root beer I need to find a heroin dealer, shoot him, steal his stash, get myself good and wasted, and then go home and beat my wife--trusting wholly in Jesus to clean up the mess I've made, and crowing all the while about my moral superiority to those faithless rubes who commit the heresy of living prudently. It's the only Christian thing to do. Edited April 19, 2017 by Just_A_Guy zil, Anddenex, pam and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 5 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said: But if I choose root beer, rather than vodka or crystal meth; then I'm trying to avoid sin, and trying to "earn" my salvation, and thereby signaling my lack of faith in Jesus and my truly damned state. Logically, if I really want to be saved, I must take each and every opportunity to sin as flagrantly and flamboyantly as possible. Anything less equals a reliance on my own merits. The Bible clearly says that the path to true humility and salvation, lies in giving my life over to sin. So rather than getting a root beer I need to find a heroin dealer, shoot him, steal his stash, get myself good and wasted, and then go home and beat my wife--trusting wholly in Jesus to clean up the mess I've made, and crowing all the while about my moral superiority to those faithless rubes who commit the heresy of living prudently. It's the only Christian thing to do. Oh brother. zil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 1 minute ago, pam said: Oh brother. Now, now, young lady. Don't judge me until you've bought an eight-ball in my shoes. zil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 Just now, Just_A_Guy said: Now, now, young lady. Don't judge me until you've bought an eight-ball in my shoes. Where is the JAG I know and what did you do with him? He is usually one making the old lady jokes aimed at me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 1 minute ago, pam said: Where is the JAG I know and what did you do with him? He is usually one making the old lady jokes aimed at me. I'm trying to charm you. What, you aren't feeling charmed? pam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 1 minute ago, Just_A_Guy said: I'm trying to charm you. What, you aren't feeling charmed? I seriously think someone hacked your account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, pam said: I seriously think someone hacked your account. When @Just_A_Guy starts babbling about heavy metal and the Boston Celtics, do not look in my direction! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 6 minutes ago, pam said: I seriously think someone hacked your account. Gee, and here I was jonesing for another free root beer . . . pam and zil 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anddenex Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 49 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said: But if I choose root beer, rather than vodka or crystal meth; then I'm trying to avoid sin, and trying to "earn" my salvation, and thereby signaling my lack of faith in Jesus and my truly damned state. Logically, if I really want to be saved, I must take each and every opportunity to sin as flagrantly and flamboyantly as possible. Anything less equals a reliance on my own merits. The Bible clearly says that the path to true humility and salvation, lies in giving my life over to sin. So rather than getting a root beer I need to find a heroin dealer, shoot him, steal his stash, get myself good and wasted, and then go home and beat my wife--trusting wholly in Jesus to clean up the mess I've made, and crowing all the while about my moral superiority to those faithless rubes who commit the heresy of living prudently. It's the only Christian thing to do. Correct, "personal responsibility" is out the door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runewell Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said: Logically, if I really want to be saved, I must take each and every opportunity to sin as flagrantly and flamboyantly as possible. Anything less equals a reliance on my own merits. The Bible clearly says that the path to true humility and salvation, lies in giving my life over to sin. Romans 6:1-2 1What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? Traveler 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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