3 Reasons You Should Stop Saying, ‘I Can’t, I’m Mormon’

[Third Hour]

"I can't, I'm Mormon." If you're anything like me, this is a phrase you've used frequently to explain restrictions non-LDS people might find bizarre. Get invited to a sketchy party on Friday night? "I can't, I'm Mormon." Someone asks you go to shopping on Sunday? "I can't, I'm Mormon." Get handed a cup of coffee? "I can't, I'm Mormon." As far as explanations go, it's pretty short and to-the-point. But around my senior year in high school, I stopped using this explanation. Here are three reasons why you should, too: 1. It ignores the principle of agency Saying "I Can't, I'm Mormon" implies that we don't have a choice in how we act. By its very definition, the word "can't" tells your audience that you are unable to do what they've invited you to do. Of course, holding on to your standards to the point that you're unable to deter from them is admirable. On the other hand, using the word "can't" ignores the fact that each of us has a choice in how we act. Mormons choose to live the way we do. 2. It implies you would if you weren't...

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[The Folk Prophet]

Another STUPID article!

[Guest]

I thought it was a fine article.  But I'm partially biased in that I gave a speech that was almost identical to this one in Sacrament meeting.  However, I did not use the "I won't" verbiage.  I used the "I don't" verbiage.

Let's go to a bar and get hammered!  No, thanks.  I don't drink.  (same for coffee or tea).

Let's go "spend some time together".  No, I'm a happily married man.

Let's go shopping, it's Sunday!  No, I can wait until later.

Sketchy party... I have no idea what that is.

I didn't even go so far as to say "I'm Mormon."   If I don't, I don't.  That's it.  That's who I am.  If you include it, it violates the article's own point.  It implies that if you weren't Mormon, you would.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Guest

[The Folk Prophet]

I think it takes a special kind of purposeful obtuseness to fail to understand that someone saying "I can't drink because I'm Mormon" means anything other than, "I choose not to drink because I'm Mormon".

[Vort]

1 hour ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Another STUPID article!

Actually, and surprisingly (to me), I disagree. I thought it was a pretty good article, with some real introspection.

Some years or decades ago, it occurred to me that saying "I'm married" as an excuse not to fornicate with someone was actually a half-baked, false apology. Even if I were single, I wouldn't do it, because I covenanted with God not to. Because of that covenant, I would choose death over such fornication, and would trust that my lost life and lost pleasure would be recompensed to me a thousand-fold. I would like to believe that I would make that same choice even if I had not made that specific temple covenant, just because my faith in God's promises was so great.

In any case, I liked the article. It was certainly much better than some of the others that have recently been published under the MormonHub banner.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I think it takes a special kind of purposeful obtuseness to fail to understand that someone saying "I can't drink because I'm Mormon" means anything other than, "I choose not to drink because I'm Mormon".

Maybe so.  Maybe not.  But it is a reality.  Many people do think that.  I've told a story here before, but I'll tell it again.

My best friend since childhood was getting married.  We gathered together at a TGI Friday's (I believe) for a bachelor party dinner.  There must have been about 30 of us there. Only about three were non-LDS.

When the waitress discovered it was a bachelor party she expected to be selling a lot of drinks = lots of tips.  She was excited.  Then she found out that we weren't going to be ordering any alcoholic beverages.  She was curious as to why.

Obviously, we were in Orange County (high density Mormonville - for outside of Utah) we all dressed very conservatively and modestly, and we all had the missionary haircut (even the non-Mormons present).  She probably could have guessed.

But before anyone else could answer, the groom's older brother simply said,"No reason.  It's just a personal choice."  Now, if you knew him, you'd realize it was NOT because he was avoiding anything.  For him, it was a simple truth.  When I heard it, I agreed.  That was the simple truth.  It was a personal choice.  I don't drink.

[The Folk Prophet]

9 minutes ago, Vort said:

Actually, and surprisingly (to me), I disagree. I thought it was a pretty good article, with some real introspection.

Maybe my mormonhub bias was on high.

10 minutes ago, Vort said:

Some years or decades ago, it occurred to me that saying "I'm married" as an excuse not to fornicate with someone was actually a half-baked, false apology. Even if I were single, I wouldn't do it, because I covenanted with God not to. Because of that covenant, I would choose death over such fornication, and would trust that my lost life and lost pleasure would be recompensed to me a thousand-fold. I would like to believe that I would make that same choice even if I had not made that specific temple covenant, just because my faith in God's promises was so great.

I'm not sure the equivelency works. For example: "Wanna go get a beer after work?" "Ah, I can't. I'm Mormon. We don't drink" = real possibility and a perfectly fine response. "Wanna go to a hotel on our lunch break and cheat on your wife with me?" "Ah, I can't. I'm Married." = unlikely scenario.

That being said, I take your point. I'm just not sure it applies to the perfectly fine response in the likely scenarios where one might actually say, "I can't, I'm Mormon", wherein hardly anyone, if any at all, actually means, "I would if I could but I can't because I have no agency in the matter. But I secretly really want to."

15 minutes ago, Vort said:

In any case, I liked the article. It was certainly much better than some of the others that have recently been published under the MormonHub banner.

Agreed. Better.

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Vort said:

Actually, and surprisingly (to me), I disagree. I thought it was a pretty good article, with some real introspection.

Some years or decades ago, it occurred to me that saying "I'm married" as an excuse not to fornicate with someone was actually a half-baked, false apology. Even if I were single, I wouldn't do it, because I covenanted with God not to. Because of that covenant, I would choose death over such fornication, and would trust that my lost life and lost pleasure would be recompensed to me a thousand-fold. I would like to believe that I would make that same choice even if I had not made that specific temple covenant, just because my faith in God's promises was so great.

In any case, I liked the article. It was certainly much better than some of the others that have recently been published under the MormonHub banner.

Well, let's talk about some things we would or would not do if we were not Mormon.

I would probably drink wine once in a while.  But it would be very rare.  I don't even drink soda very often simply because of cost.  I'd treat it like I currently treat caffeinated sodas.  I'll have it from time to time.  But I try to remain healthy -- with or without the word of wisdom, or whether or not caffeinated sodas apply.  If I hadn't made a covenant to avoid alcohol, I could see doing it once in a while.  But it's something I'd normally avoid. Besides, it's even more expensive than soda.  So, I would probably have it LESS often than I currently have regular soda.

I'd never smoke.  That's just plain nasty.  Same for beer.  I've never had stronger spirits, so I wouldn't know.  But it would probably be much less frequently than wine.  I don't think I'd ever do drugs simply because the current anti-drug culture... blah blah.  And my job randomly tests a couple times a year.

Law of chastity.  That's a tough question.  I'd like to think that if I'd made a commitment to my wife (whether LDS or not) I'd want to stay faithful to her.  So, that reason alone would be the reason I'd decline an offer of sex. But if I weren't LDS and I weren't married, to be honest, I don't know how opposed to it I'd be -- assuming we're talking about a woman I'd prefer to have a relationship with - no matter how brief.  This is one thing where the rest of the world just doesn't teach the same respect for sex as Mormons do.  If I didn't have that teaching, if I didn't have that covenant, I don't know.

Shopping on Sunday.  Yup.  I certainly would. 

Anything else?

One big thing is that "if I weren't Mormon" also would have to assume to some degree that we didn't have the same teachings or attitudes because of our covenants or upbringing (where applicable).  That's what makes the questions somewhat biased or possibly unanswerable.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Guest

[Vort]

5 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

"Wanna go to a hotel on our lunch break and cheat on your wife with me?" "Ah, I can't. I'm Married." = unlikely scenario.

"Unlikely" in the sense that it probably won't happen on a weekly basis, or in the sense that it probably won't happen at all? The former I freely grant; the latter is simply untrue.

[NightSG]

23 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

"Wanna go to a hotel on our lunch break and cheat on your wife with me?" "Ah, I can't. I'm Married." = unlikely scenario.

That's just because you're ugly.  

[Maureen]

2 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Another STUPID article!

Why, are you Chad Ramos? ?

M.

[The Folk Prophet]

35 minutes ago, Vort said:

"Unlikely" in the sense that it probably won't happen on a weekly basis, or in the sense that it probably won't happen at all? The former I freely grant; the latter is simply untrue.

I'd say unlikely in the faithful LDS world.

[The Folk Prophet]

5 minutes ago, Maureen said:

Why, are you Chad Ramos? ?

M.

Huh?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

Well, let's talk about some things we would or would not do if we were not Mormon.

I would probably drink wine once in a while.  But it would be very rare.  I don't even drink soda very often simply because of cost.  I'd treat it like I currently treat caffeinated sodas.  I'll have it from time to time.  But I try to remain healthy -- with or without the word of wisdom, or whether or not caffeinated sodas apply.  If I hadn't made a covenant to avoid alcohol, I could see doing it once in a while.  But it's something I'd normally avoid. Besides, it's even more expensive than soda.  So, I would probably have it LESS often than I currently have regular soda.

I'd never smoke.  That's just plain nasty.  Same for beer.  I've never had stronger spirits, so I wouldn't know.  But it would probably be much less frequently than wine.  I don't think I'd ever do drugs simply because the current anti-drug culture... blah blah.  And my job randomly tests a couple times a year.

Law of chastity.  That's a tough question.  I'd like to think that if I'd made a commitment to my wife (whether LDS or not) I'd want to stay faithful to her.  So, that reason alone would be the reason I'd decline an offer of sex. But if I weren't LDS and I weren't married, to be honest, I don't know how opposed to it I'd be -- assuming we're talking about a woman I'd prefer to have a relationship with - no matter how brief.  This is one thing where the rest of the world just doesn't teach the same respect for sex as Mormons do.  If I didn't have that teaching, if I didn't have that covenant, I don't know.

Shopping on Sunday.  Yup.  I certainly would. 

Anything else?

One big thing is that "if I weren't Mormon" also would have to assume to some degree that we didn't have the same teachings or attitudes because of our covenants or upbringing (where applicable).  That's what makes the questions somewhat biased or possibly unanswerable.

Based on my non-member family history, if I were not Mormon, I think I would be breaking the Word of Wisdom left and right.  I would almost certainly be a smoker, an alcoholic, and a heavy coffee drinker.  I also have the personality of the type of person who would experiment with drug use, if not more.  I shudder to think where that would lead, especially given my current out-of-control Diet Coke addiction.

As far as chastity goes, though, I would like to think I would be faithful to my wife, even if I were not a member.  I would like to think even without the Church I would resist this type of sin by instinct and out of a desire not to hurt someone else.  I don't know about lesser chastity sins, though.  

I would also probably pirate anything I could find online.  

I would like to think, if I were not a Mormon, I would have found my way to another religion instead.  Islam, perhaps?  Otherwise, I shudder to think about what kind of person I would have become without the Gospel.

Edited May 10, 2017 by DoctorLemon

[Vort]

27 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I'd say unlikely in the faithful LDS world.

I spent two weeks in India about 16 months ago. Very conservative society, much moreso than the US. Most of that time was spent in a large, crowded office, and most of the rest was spent alone in my hotel room, working or sleeping. But I still managed to get propositioned. I'm not even particularly good-looking -- quite average, really. Not to mention I was almost 53 at the time. Opportunity is all around us, all the time, for good or for evil.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Vort

[The Folk Prophet]

5 minutes ago, Vort said:

I spent two weeks in India about 16 months ago. Very conservative society, much moreso than the US. Most of that time was spent in a large, crowded office, and most of the rest was spent alone in my hotel room, working or sleeping. But I still managed to get propositioned. I'm not even particularly good-looking -- quite average, really. Opportunity is all around us, all the time, for good or for evil.

Yes...but... Did you respond by saying, "I can't, I'm married?" Well...not you, obviously. But would any faithful LDS person respond that way? That's the part I claim unlikely.

[NightSG]

7 minutes ago, Vort said:

I spent two weeks in India about 16 months ago. Very conservative society, much moreso than the US. Most of that time was spent in a large, crowded office, and most of the rest was spent alone in my hotel room, working or sleeping. But I still managed to get propositioned. I'm not even particularly good-looking -- quite average, really. Not to mention I was almost 53 at the time. Opportunity is all around us, all the time, for good or for evil.

Dude, anybody who looks like they have $20 to spare, or might be a potential green card gets offers all the time in plenty of those countries.

Don't even have to go there for the green card ones; just being an American on a LDS singles Facebook group gets me friend requests from 19 year old Filipinas all the time.  (And that's just the real ones.)

[Vort]

Just now, NightSG said:

Dude, anybody who looks like they have $20 to spare, or might be a potential green card gets offers all the time in plenty of those countries.

Don't even have to go there for the green card ones; just being an American on a LDS singles Facebook group gets me friend requests from 19 year old Filipinas all the time.  (And that's just the real ones.)

It must be because I'm such a snazzy dresser.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Vort said:

It must be because I'm such a snazzy dresser.

You mean those bermuda shorts and 70s band t-shirts?

[Maureen]

47 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Huh?

The article says that the shirt design creator was Chad Ramos but this guy's idea got scrapped. I would guess that Chad would not like this article either; a reminder of a bad idea. ?

M.

[The Folk Prophet]

@Vort, as I think about it, one (faithful lds) might say "I can't, I'm married", but would that really be what they meant, or what they were using to kindly remove themselves from the situation?

[Guest MormonGator]

8 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

You mean those bermuda shorts and 70s band t-shirts?

I'm wearing a Kiss shirt as we speak, but no Bermuda shorts. 

[The Folk Prophet]

3 minutes ago, Maureen said:

The article says that the shirt design creator was Chad Ramos but this guy's idea got scrapped. I would guess that Chad would not like this article either; a reminder of a bad idea. ?

M.

Ah, yes. I had skipped that paragraph to get to the points.

As to that paragraph...give me a break. People will complain about anything. Sounds like a funny t-shirt to me. I want one.

Get a sense of humor people.

 

Edit: I want a "I can't, I'm married" t-shirt too now that I think of it.

Edited May 10, 2017 by The Folk Prophet

[NeuroTypical]

Yeah, this one was ok.  Remember, it's written by a bunch of kids, for a broad audience of people under 24, who may or may not be LDS, who may have little maturity in the gospel.  They tend to lean "there are worldly reasons to do x too!".  

But yeah, this one is a notch above their usual.  

[Maureen]

1 hour ago, The Folk Prophet said:

"Wanna go to a hotel on our lunch break and cheat on your wife with me?" "Ah, I can't. I'm Married." = unlikely scenario...

Do you think it's an "unlikely scenario" because by the time you said "I'm Married" you realized that the person hitting on you would think you're a dork since they already mentioned your wife. ?

M.