What are your thoughts about environmentalism?

[Traveler]

20 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

FYI, the really cool religious term for environmentalism is:  CREATION CARE. 

 

I use to think I was an environmentalist.  I commuted to work by bicycle, I was a member of Green Peace – I was what most would call an extremist.  But environmentalism seems to have become more political than environmental.   In the political arena environmentalism is owned by those wanting government to control (power) rather than intelligent responsible use by all.  True, all it takes is one idiot to ruin the environment as opposed to 1,000 that are responsible.  A refusal to intelligently utilize resources is as irresponsible as not utilizing resources.   

From a religious standpoint – we have been given dominion over all the earth.  Not to hide it but to glorify it and G-d for creating it.

I just returned from a trip to Alaska.  I was asked by an atheist if I believed that it was possible for someone that does not believe in G-d to appreciate the beauty of nature.  My response was that I believed that whatever appreciation they did have was very poor and hardly insightful.  Failure to recognize the intelligence, design, cost, sacrifice, effort and purpose of nature beyond a fleeting moment does not seem like much of any appreciation to me.  That with all their effort, intelligence and willingness to do something similar and then to declare nothing greater than themselves and their intelligence had anything to do with it all was to me the very demonstration of stupidity and lack of appreciation.

 

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

How did the atheist respond to your assessment @Traveler?

[Traveler]

27 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

How did the atheist respond to your assessment @Traveler?

Actually, I believe my atheist friend deliberately intended to get a rise out of me.  Mostly I am not interested in starting a discussion but I am willing to respond in full candor.   My friend thought for a while and then perused a different subject.  There was another atheist in our group that was participating but when I suggested that they refused any possible intelligence greater than themselves – I believe they saw I had set them up and thought it better to concede that they were impressed but knew full well they could not make it better – despite their otherwise brilliance.

BTW – a side note – Part of the scientific definition of intelligence is the ability to learn and alter the environment to a benefit.

The Traveler

Edited August 14, 2017 by Traveler

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

On 8/13/2017 at 2:08 PM, Carborendum said:

I see this as exactly the same type of question as the "feminism" thread.  Apparently there is not widely accepted definition.

I consider myself an environmentalist, but not a "greenie".  Two labels often used synonymously.  I don't.  So, what are you to make of that?

Good point.  I'm seeing that as well.  I'm beginning to wonder how we (generally speaking) communicate at all when there are so many shades of meaning for so many words....feminism, environmentalism, forgiveness, political correctness are the ones that come to my mind.  

On 8/13/2017 at 2:55 PM, Grunt said:

I suppose I'm not an environmentalist, but I practice sustainable agriculture on my own land.

That fits my definition!  

Thanks everyone, I think i'm beginning to get a much clearer picture.  It is an optimistic one too!

So for this discussion let's leave out the politics and government stuff.  I'm mostly interested in what we can do as individuals anyway.  I want to do all I can as a way of showing gratitude to Heavenly Father.  So here's your chance to "brag" (in a good way) about what you are doing.  It will inspire me.  So hit me up!  

I'll start...I'm a beginner so my efforts are quite modest at this point...recycling, trying to remember to use reusable bags for shopping.  My husband is the gardener of the family so he does a lot...I'm only now beginning to really appreciate his work in this area, my man is a genius.    Oh, and @Vort, and @prisonchaplain he's growing Kiwi!  Did you know that that will grow in our area?   Cool, right...note to self, brag on Facebook.  LOL.  Anyway, back to the topic.  We have plans to get solar panels...we have to save for that.  I wondered if they would work in a cloudy, rainy area like this, but hubby says he's talked to the solar power folks and they said it works better here in Washington than in California.  

How about you?  @anatess2  I agree with you about the snakes!  Tell us more about your veggies, etc.  @Grunt  I'd love to hear more about sustainable agriculture...then I can show off my knowledge to my hubby.  Anyone drive a Prius?  Do you like it?   

Hit me with ideas and inspiration guys!  

Edited August 14, 2017 by LiterateParakeet

[Guest MormonGator]

1 minute ago, LiterateParakeet said:

 I agree with you about the snakes!  

Snakes get a bad reputation for absolutely no reason. 99.9% of them will leave you alone. In fact, the only way to get a snake bite unless you are terribly unlucky is to pester them in the wild. 

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

1 minute ago, MormonGator said:

Snakes get a bad reputation for absolutely no reason. 99.9% of them will leave you alone. In fact, the only way to get a snake bite unless you are terribly unlucky is to pester them in the wild. 

I agree.  On the Zion's Camp March Joseph Smith stopped from men from killing snakes  I don't remember what he said exactly, but something along the lines of "The lion can never lie down with the lamb until man stops being at odds with nature".  Like I said not an exact quote by any means, but that's what I recall as the gist of it.  

[Guest MormonGator]

1 minute ago, LiterateParakeet said:

I agree.  On the Zion's Camp March Joseph Smith stopped from men from killing snakes  I don't remember what he said exactly, but something along the lines of "The lion can never lie down with the lamb until man stops being at odds with nature".  Like I said not an exact quote by any means, but that's what I recall as the gist of it.  

He was exactly right. Snakes are like bears to some degree. While you can stumble upon them in the wild, if you take basic precautions your odds of being "attacked" by one are incredibly low.   Almost astronomically low, really. 

It's like going to the beach and being afraid of getting attacked by a shark. Actually your odds of drowning are much, much, much higher than even seeing a shark. Much less getting attacked by one. 

[anatess2]

8 hours ago, askandanswer said:

a black soldier fly colony?

Yes, sirree!  And they are allowed in Australia too!

Okay, so you know how it's so awesome to do composting to produce the precious "Black Gold" (very fertile soil that is awesome for veggie gardens).  Well, normally, you don't want to throw your left over chicken dinner in that compost pile because it would smell bad and attract pests including your dogs before it decomposes.  You don't want to feed that left-over chicken with all those spices to the dogs either (the dog farts would be nuclear).  Anyway, here comes nature's super composter... the Black Soldier Fly!  

So, unlike regular house flies, BSF is not a pest.  They go through 4 stages - eggs for about 5 days, larva for 2 weeks (looks like super-sized maggots), pupa for another 2 weeks (hard black casing), and then the fly.  BUT unlike regular flies, a Black Soldier Fly does not eat after it comes out of the pupa.  At all.  They don't even have mouths.  And they only live for 8 days.  So, they basically have one purpose - find a spouse, get pregnant, drop eggs.  Die.  That's it!  So, they avoid anywhere that has human or any other animal traffic for their safety.  So you will rarely see them flying around.

So, the really cool thing about the BSF is when it is in its larval stage.  500 of these super sized maggots (one fly drops about 500 eggs before it dies) can eat a whole chicken within 4 hours!  They will reduce that chicken by 90% of its original volume (not counting the bones - they don't eat the bones).  These guys will eat almost anything.  So then, another cool thing - when they are ready to become pupa, they would scamper off as far away from the food as possible.  They don't eat anymore, so they hide away for safety while they're transforming to a fly.  So, it's super easy to just funnel the scampering mature larva into a container.  These mature larva/pupa is GOLD for feeding chickens, fish, reptiles, amphibians, etc.  And they have the perfect protein to fat ratio for backyard chickens!

So, in Florida, BSF pretty much live most everywhere, so all I have to do is put out a composting bin designed to attract egg-laying BSF in my backyard.  They would lay eggs close to an isolated food source so all I really need to do is have a composting bin with a hole in the lid and tie a piece of corrugated cardboard to the lid inside the bin.  The BSF will lay eggs on the cardboard and the larva will drop onto the food in the bin.   We keep dropping food trash in there to feed the colony.  The bin will have a pipe that the mature larva can crawl through to get out of the food.... straight into the chicken coop where my hungry chickens are waiting to gobble them all up.

Cool huh?

 

Edited August 15, 2017 by anatess2

[anatess2]

2 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

How about you?  @anatess2  I agree with you about the snakes!  Tell us more about your veggies, etc.

 Anyone drive a Prius?  Do you like it?   

I started with an indoor hydroponic lettuce in solo cups.  But I couldn't maintain it when we travel so I have to start over and over again.  So I tried out aquaponics outdoors with goldfish but I keep on having trouble with it.  So now I just have regular raised-bed garden.  I got tomatoes and lettuce and spinach there now.  I still have to start over every year because I travel too much, so I usually just let it overgrow during the summer and die off in the beds to fertilize next year's soil.  I got into microgreens a while back - it fits my lifestyle more because it has a very short growing season.  It's quite tasty too.

I love my chickens.  They give me a dozen eggs a week - which is not really enough for our needs - we can go through 2 dozen easy.  But that's my fault.  I wanted the fancy Silkie chickens because... they look like my bichon frise!  Unfortunately, the silkies are not very prolific egg-layers.

So. I was in Boulder Colorado a few weeks back and I super love their downtown!  We went to a fast food place and I was getting ready to throw my trash and instead of the big Trash bins common in Florida, they have this little bowl on top of the counter marked trash.  They have 2 big bins - a compost bin and a recycle bin - and I had to ask the dude that worked there which thing goes where.  Sure enough, none of what was on my tray went to trash.  Cool, huh?

 

[zil]

I'm gonna move next door to @anatess2 so that when the world starts ending, I can just bum off her.

Alternately, maybe we really should build a compound and start taking applications...

[anatess2]

Just now, zil said:

I'm gonna move next door to @anatess2 so that when the world starts ending, I can just bum off her.

Alternately, maybe we really should build a compound and start taking applications...

I thought we're all moving to @Grunt's house.

[zil]

1 minute ago, anatess2 said:

I thought we're all moving to @Grunt's house.

Excellent!

[anatess2]

Just now, zil said:

Excellent!

Make sure you don't bring your sodas.  He'll kick you out for sure.

[JohnsonJones]

Hard to answer the questions truthfully.  I'd consider myself a conservative, but compared to many of the Mormons, they'd put as a flaming liberal!!!

As for environmentalist, I'd say I'm absolutely NOT what I'd term a fake environmentalist...but when people talk about environmentalist these days...that's what they refer to.

Ironically, I'm connected to two REAL environmentalist.  The first is my uncle, who is in environmental engineering.  He does a lot of clean up for environmental disasters.  I have helped him do actual environmental cleanup jobs in the past, especially during my summers...thus being heavily involved in actual environmentalist/environmental work.

The second is a cousin that lives with us occasionally.  She is a conservation Biologist.  One of the things she's done that she explained to me is working with the hunters and animal conservation.  In a nutshell, they need to keep track of approximately how many animals are around and alive (such as deer) compared to the flora and fauna of the rest of the area.  Taking that into account, they determine how many they need to cull that year.  Hunters provide an excellent way to cull the animals so that the biologist do not have to go and put down that many animals themselves.  She explained that when they get it wrong...more animals will actually die in a far harsher and painful manner.  When there are too many animals, they normally will die of starvation, and more of them will die because the lack of food affects the entire population.  To say the least, unlike the fake environmentalist tree huggers, She absolutely LOVES hunters and the association they have with them that enable them to keep the numbers steady.

I used to go on field trips with her to help out with numbers and identification and stuff.

So, in that light, I'd actually didn't know how to answer 1....but maybe...

1.  I'm none of the above?

2. I actually think the Big Bang is plausible, but as per above, not certain I'd say I was an environmentalist or not.

3.  I'm LDS, but I'm not sure if the church really takes a stance on any of the so called environmentalist issues of the day (global warming, etc).

Neither of the above relatives believe in the Global Warming myth as stated in politics and the news.  They both feel we may effect the environment, but feel that the issues being stated in the media is more a political thing than anything dealing with factual science, and that many of the fake environmentalist do far more harm to the environment than help.

They both feel we need to care for the environment, and we may have some effect but there are also other factors at work there that are rarely discussed, or even attempted to gain control of or even observe.

In fact, they both have stories where fake environmentalists hindered their jobs, put the environment at risk, and in some cases started major disasters (one where forest fires were started by idiots who thought they wanted to stop deforestation and camped out but didn't know didley about controlling campfires and other stupid stuff, another where some group promoted the construction of a plant to make alternate fuels, but had such a terrible chemical storage that it leaked causing a major environmental disaster...).  The funny thing is, the idea I've gotten from them is there is a cadre of scientist that is the in group.  These are the people that are after, pride, prestige, and power, and thus are the ones involved with politics that are pushing a lot of the fake environmental messages.

The other scientists and people working in the field, the ones with the actual and real experience and hands on work in the areas...their views are basically ignored overall by the politicians, the media, and Hollywood.  Due to this, REAL, viable steps that are not costly, expensive, or hard to implement are ignored in favor of those who have a political agenda more than one to actually help the environment or world around them.  They have ideas on how to practically reduce pollution and other aspects, but both say that these measures will never get widespread use simply because those who are in the "in" crowd of scientists  and politicians won't have any money/profit from them if implemented. 

Hence, though I might consider myself somewhat of an environmentalist (and even have hands on experience to a degree), I would very much not want to be identified with what people in general consider an environmentalist today as per the Hollywood definition or idea.

 

Edited August 16, 2017 by JohnsonJones