College Choices and Marriage

[felicityswims]

*Note that the one other thread I've made has been resolved, I now wear my garments "day and night." So please don't bring that up.*

My significant other and I are talking seriously about marriage, but he lives about 6 hours away in a neighboring state. I go to a university in my city and am a sophomore. I have college paid for at this university and he has not yet started as he is recent RM. He's looking into BYUi and other such colleges that are states away. I also have a way to pay for my future law degree as long as I stay in my home state. I would go where he wants if it wasn't for the issue of paying for it. Should he go to the college of his choice and we wait to get married for 3+ years until I finish, or should he compromise and come to the university in my city? We're having a lot of trouble figuring it out and any outside opinions and points of view could really help. Thanks in advance.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, felicityswims said:

*Note that the one other thread I've made has been resolved, I now wear my garments "day and night." So please don't bring that up.*

My significant other and I are talking seriously about marriage, but he lives about 6 hours away in a neighboring state. I go to a university in my city and am a sophomore. I have college paid for at this university and he has not yet started as he is recent RM. He's looking into BYUi and other such colleges that are states away. I also have a way to pay for my future law degree as long as I stay in my home state. I would go where he wants if it wasn't for the issue of paying for it. Should he go to the college of his choice and we wait to get married for 3+ years until I finish, or should he compromise and come to the university in my city? We're having a lot of trouble figuring it out and any outside opinions and points of view could really help. Thanks in advance.

When me and my wife had that choice I compromised and walked away from a full ride scholarship to marry my wife.  Haven't regretted it one bit.  Also found the difference between accredited universities, other than cost (which is very important) isn't that significant at the undergraduate level.  I don't know why people stress so much about college choices... Choice of major is far more important than where you go (at the undergraduate level at least- this is NOT true at the law school level).

If you met the right person you should marry without delay.

Edited September 30, 2017 by DoctorLemon

[JoCa]

1 hour ago, felicityswims said:

*Note that the one other thread I've made has been resolved, I now wear my garments "day and night." So please don't bring that up.*

My significant other and I are talking seriously about marriage, but he lives about 6 hours away in a neighboring state. I go to a university in my city and am a sophomore. I have college paid for at this university and he has not yet started as he is recent RM. He's looking into BYUi and other such colleges that are states away. I also have a way to pay for my future law degree as long as I stay in my home state. I would go where he wants if it wasn't for the issue of paying for it. Should he go to the college of his choice and we wait to get married for 3+ years until I finish, or should he compromise and come to the university in my city? We're having a lot of trouble figuring it out and any outside opinions and points of view could really help. Thanks in advance.

This, IMO, seems like a really simple decision that the world gets us confused on.  Questions to answer, in your future marriage what is the primary role of the husband?  What is the primary role of the wife?

https://www.lds.org/topics/family-proclamation?lang=eng&old=true

"By divine design, fathers  .. . . are responsible to provide the necessities of life. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children."

In general, in order for you future husband to fulfill his God-given duty and responsibility to provide for you and your future children, it is imperative that he get the best education possible in his chosen field.  

Your law degree is a long way off and will most likely require significant amount of debt that if you are to be married your husband will also be responsible to pay off.  At least 4 more years (or more) and likely around 100k in debt.  How many years of work will you or your husband need in order to pay off 100k in debt?  How is that going to affect your future decisions in raising children and being a mother?  Is that going to be more of a burden or a blessing to your future family? Even if you are able to have a minimal amount of debt with a law degree . . . of what purpose will it ultimately be in your future family?  If you know who you want to marry, and the guy feels the same . . . why put education over marriage?

I've been married 12 years and not once has my wife's degree helped the family out-in fact I have significant debt to pay back b/c of it.  I'm glad she has a degree in case something happens to me; but the most important education she has obtained hasn't been from the classroom-it's been in the growth she has experienced being a wife and mother.

If you aren't sure you want to marry him; that is another question and for that case I would say proceed with your own plans.  However, if you would like to marry him, then do it.  I would say separate out the questions.  1st should you marry him? 2nd when should you marry him? 3rd what to do about college?  If the answer to the 1st is yes, then get married, allow him the honor, privilege and duty to obtain the best education he can so that he can provide for you, your children and so you can do what God has ordained you to do---nurture your children.   God will provide if you follow His model . .. He just will.

 

 

Edited October 1, 2017 by JoCa

[felicityswims]

8 minutes ago, JoCa said:

Your law degree is a long way off and will most likely requiresignificant amount of debt that if you are to be married your husband will also be responsible to pay off.  At least 4 more years (or more) and likely around 100k in debt.  How many years of work will you or your husband need in order to pay off 100k in debt?  How is that going to affect your future decisions in raising children and being a mother?  Is that going to be more of a burden or a blessing to your future family? Even if you are able to have a minimal amount of debt with a law degree . . . of what purpose will it ultimately be in your future family?  If you know who you want to marry, and the guy feels the same . . . why put education over marriage?

 

1

I have 100% of tuition paid for any law school in my state. Therefore there will be no debt incurred. Also, law school is 3 years, not 4 (or more).

As for purpose, I plan to work in family practice and adoptions. I also plan to adopt. I plan to work and provide for my family just as my husband does. It is unfair to expect him to solely provide for an entire household, in my opinion. It's not right to him or to myself. I know that the Proclamation says different, but each and every one of God's children is different and can provide in different ways. If/when children come I will take time off and when they are older I will probably return to work. 

Edit: My SO agrees with me and has no problems with this plan.

Edited October 1, 2017 by felicityswims

[JoCa]

8 minutes ago, felicityswims said:

I have 100% of tuition paid for any law school in my state. Therefore there will be no debt incurred. Also, law school is 3 years, not 4 (or more).

As for purpose, I plan to work in family practice and adoptions. I also plan to adopt. I plan to work and provide for my family just as my husband does. It is unfair to expect him to solely provide for an entire household, in my opinion. It's not right to him or to myself. I know that the Proclamation says different, but each and every one of God's children is different and can provide in different ways. If/when children come I will take time off and when they are older I will probably return to work. 

Edit: My SO agrees with me and has no problems with this plan.

lol okay.  Have at it.  You obviously weren't listening to Elder Oaks conference talk today.  

Sorry my young sister-I truly am sorry you are confused (with the bolded) you have absolutely no clue . . . but life is a great teacher.  This decision you are making (bolded) will be one of the worst decisions you can possibly make.  God has said so, Prophets have said so, a modern Apostle of God has said so . . . .but be my guest in doing things your own way.  Just when the heartache and problems occur don't say you weren't warned.

Edit:  You plan to adopt (b/c you can't have any-which I find strange b/c how would you know before you are married?? or b/c you believe it better than having your own???) . . .wow this current generation is screwed up . . .wow.

Edited October 1, 2017 by JoCa

[Just_A_Guy]

I am pretty pro-husband-as-primary breadwinner.  But from what it sounds like—right now you have a plan, and he is more or less drifting (not to get all harrumph-ey, but I didn’t have to spend time after my mission figuring out where I’d go to school).  Speaking as someone with $89K in law school debt, this free tuition thing you’ve got lined up sounds like a pretty sweet gig; and if I were a woman I wouldn’t walk away from that while my fiancé was still trying to figure out what he wants to be when he grows up.

[JoCa]

2 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I am pretty pro-husband-as-primary breadwinner.  But from what it sounds like—right now you have a plan, and he is more or less drifting (not to get all harrumph-ey, but I didn’t have to spend time after my mission figuring out where I’d go to school).  Speaking as someone with $89K in law school debt, this free tuition thing you’ve got lined up sounds like a pretty sweet gig; and if I were a woman I wouldn’t walk away from that while my fiancé was still trying to figure out what he wants to be when he grows up.

Well, I wouldn't be considering the young man as a possible spouse if he is drifting!!! Young men, get it together!!  But you see we have an young woman who is an enabler, i.e. it's "unfair" that he provide . . . so of course he is going to slouch . . . . . sigh 

Edited October 1, 2017 by JoCa

[Just_A_Guy]

9 minutes ago, JoCa said:

Well, I wouldn't be considering the young man as a possible spouse if he is drifting!!! Young men, get it together!!  But you see we have an young woman who is an enabler, i.e. it's "unfair" that he provide . . . so of course he is going to slouch . . . . . sigh 

I don’t disagree, necessarily.  But if we can’t persuade OP to go from “good” to “better” or “best” (she’s in love, after all!), maybe we can at least warn her away from “bad” and “just plain awful”.

[felicityswims]

7 minutes ago, JoCa said:

Well, I wouldn't be considering the young man as a possible spouse if he is drifting!!! Young men, get it together!!  But you see we have an young woman who is an enabler, i.e. it's "unfair" that he provide . . . so of course he is going to slouch . . . . . sigh 

I never said it's unfair that he provides, I said it's unfair that he provides alone. Just as it is unfair for me to nurture our children on my own.

From the Proclamation: "By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children. In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners. Disability, death, or other circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation. Extended families should lend support when needed."  My husband will spend as much time nurturing and teaching our children as I do, just as I will spend as much time providing for our household as he does. We will be equal partners. 

[JoCa]

29 minutes ago, felicityswims said:

I never said it's unfair that he provides, I said it's unfair that he provides alone. Just as it is unfair for me to nurture our children on my own.

From the Proclamation: "By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children. In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners. Disability, death, or other circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation. Extended families should lend support when needed."  My husband will spend as much time nurturing and teaching our children as I do, just as I will spend as much time providing for our household as he does. We will be equal partners. 

Lol okay kid, keep dreaming. . . you have completely misconstrued what "equal partners" means.  Equal does not mean that each person does equal amount of task A,B,C; i.e. splitting it 50/50.  You do 50% of earning, I do 50% of earning, you do 50% of nurturing and I do 50% of nurturing.  If you do that, your family will be sub-optimal.  Equal partners means that each persons duties responsibilities, and tasks are of equal importance.

I will demonstrate why you have a fallacious thinking . . .derived from economics.  It's a very basic, simple economic principle-it is the reason why we are where we are today.  It is called "Division of Labor"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_labour

"In contrast to division of labour, division of work refers to the division of a large task, contract, or project into smaller tasks—each with a separate schedule within the overall project schedule. Division of labour, instead, refers to the allocation of tasks to individuals or organizations according to the skills and/or equipment those people or organizations possess."

You are arguing for a "division of work", i.e. everyone does equal amount of the work assigned.  That is fallacious and does not work. For a family to run smoothly and properly a division of labor is necessary.  Could both I and my wife prepare an equal amount of meals?  Sure we could.  However, because she specializes in making the meals (and is very good at it) it frees up my time to specialize in work and home repair. She specializes in getting the kids ready, in the household things and I can specialize in my full-time work, and in my side-business.  Because I can specialize and focus in those areas, I can make way, way more money than either of us could working "equally".

Sorry, kid-you have been brainwashed by today's modern culture . . . you'll just learn the hard way it doesn't work too well and there is a reason why God ordained men as husbands to provide and woman as wives to take care of household.  What you propose, seems to be really nice, fluffly, great "progressive" values but in the real world-it doesn't work. 

I would advise looking to those individuals who have raised many kids who are all good, righteous individuals, who have very strong marriages, been married to the same individual for decades, etc.  If you look, you will find that almost always they will be a "traditional family".  What you propose, just plainly doesn't work.  

Oh . . .and you have obviously not been around babies too much.  For the first 2 years, their is very little "nurturing" that a father can really do.  I don't have breast for a child to suck on (and that act is an extremely important bonding between mom and child).

Edited October 1, 2017 by JoCa

[Guest]

1 hour ago, felicityswims said:

*Note that the one other thread I've made has been resolved, I now wear my garments "day and night." So please don't bring that up.*

My significant other and I are talking seriously about marriage, but he lives about 6 hours away in a neighboring state. I go to a university in my city and am a sophomore. I have college paid for at this university and he has not yet started as he is recent RM. He's looking into BYUi and other such colleges that are states away. I also have a way to pay for my future law degree as long as I stay in my home state. I would go where he wants if it wasn't for the issue of paying for it. Should he go to the college of his choice and we wait to get married for 3+ years until I finish, or should he compromise and come to the university in my city? We're having a lot of trouble figuring it out and any outside opinions and points of view could really help. Thanks in advance.

I thought about this some more while shopping this evening.

@felicityswims I think there are a lot of real problems that would go with a long distance relationship over three years.  Chances are you will wind up going your separate ways before then... It is simply too hard to maintain a long distance relationship for that long while in college.  Also when you are apart for long periods of time temptation increases when you are together.  Also, do you think you would really be happy for the next three years in a long distance relationship?  I think it would drive me nuts!

If I were you, if this is really the guy you want to marry, I would marry him now and embark together on whatever adventure you decide to go on, whether that is your law school or his education.  Half the fun is charting a course together, being young together, and knowing whatever happens education-wise it will be OK because you have one another.

I would marry him!  

[Just_A_Guy]

26 minutes ago, felicityswims said:

I never said it's unfair that he provides, I said it's unfair that he provides alone. Just as it is unfair for me to nurture our children on my own.

From the Proclamation: "By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children. In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners. Disability, death, or other circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation. Extended families should lend support when needed."  My husband will spend as much time nurturing and teaching our children as I do, just as I will spend as much time providing for our household as he does. We will be equal partners. 

Not wanting to jump all over you too much; but would you say that the Secretary of State and the Secretary of the Treasury aren’t equal partners? 

I wouldn’t. 

Equality of rank does not denote identity of responsibilities.  My experience is that if a person consistently demands that their spouse do at least 50% of *everything*, they’re eventually going to be very disappointed.  People are going to gravitate towards whatever they’re good at and, almost subconsciously, assume the lion’s share of responsibility in that field; and it tends to be a more efficient arrangement.  In fact, an economics survey course will probably discuss this aspect of human nature.

[JoCa]

12 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Not wanting to jump all over you too much; but would you say that the Secretary of State and the Secretary of the Treasury aren’t equal partners? 

I wouldn’t. 

Equality of rank does not denote identity of responsibilities.  My experience is that if a person consistently demands that their spouse do at least 50% of *everything*, they’re eventually going to be very disappointed.  People are going to gravitate towards whatever they’re good at and, almost subconsciously, assume the lion’s share of responsibility in that field; and it tends to be a more efficient arrangement.  In fact, an economics survey course will probably discuss this aspect of human nature.

I would add, I think they are headed down the road of divorce.  If one in a marriage is so concerned about everything being "equal" it will be an impossible task and at some point anger, enmity, sadness will result and more likely than not if that attitude continues it will lead to divorce.

I know I'm blunt, but it is really amazing to me at how much really bad thinking about marriage and life is being indoctrinated into young people today . . . I guess that's what 12 years of public school indoctrination and college do to people. 

We get married for 2 reasons, #1 b/c God said "it is not good for man to be alone" and #2 "to replenish the earth". There are those who can't have children, but for those who can, marriage without children is simply disregarding God's commandments and one day will have to answer to God for committing sin (i.e. disobeying his first commandments).  To fulfill #2 men and women have specific roles and responsibilities that provide the best way for raising the next generation.  

This idea of egalitarianism (i.e. that men and women are simply interchangeable) between the sexes is false, not of God and will cause, is causing major problems for society.

I think it's because quite frankly people don't read scriptures (oh but this goes against modern day culture so therefore it is false . . .okay then): 

²² Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

²³ For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

²⁴ Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

²⁵ Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

It's in the temple . . .but nah, we can just throw out the parts we don't like . . .okay do so at your own peril.

Edited October 1, 2017 by JoCa

[BeccaKirstyn]

1 hour ago, JoCa said:

Edit:  You plan to adopt (b/c you can't have any-which I find strange b/c how would you know before you are married?? or b/c you believe it better than having your own???) . . .wow this current generation is screwed up . . .wow.

Oh wow. I can't even begin to start commenting on all the ridiculous nonsense you have stated, so I'll just keep it at this. A woman can EASILY know if she can't have children BEFORE being married. The fact that you made this statement is beyond me (or the majority of your statements). 

[my two cents]

@felicityswims - Has he looked into online courses? I have family members that have gotten degrees mostly online. He may also want to 'test out' of what he can. This way you can stay in-state and keep whatever it is you have lined up. I applaud your ambition, but I must say that my mom always said that kids need you even more as they get older. I also know some families that mom went to work once the kids were all in school and problems arose because of it. Just be real careful. Some things really aren't worth it. I will also say that my husband does 100% of the 'providing' but neither of us consider this "unfair" - it's all in how you look at it. 

I came across this blog post some time ago - basically the mom's stress from trying to do it all had a negative effect on the family so she did what she needed to do: http://www.overstuffedlife.com/2016/09/i-quit-my-job-to-stay-home-with-teens.html

[felicityswims]

1 hour ago, JoCa said:

lol okay.  Have at it.  You obviously weren't listening to Elder Oaks conference talk today.  

Sorry my young sister-I truly am sorry you are confused (with the bolded) you have absolutely no clue . . . but life is a great teacher.  This decision you are making (bolded) will be one of the worst decisions you can possibly make.  God has said so, Prophets have said so, a modern Apostle of God has said so . . . .but be my guest in doing things your own way.  Just when the heartache and problems occur don't say you weren't warned.

Edit:  You plan to adopt (b/c you can't have any-which I find strange b/c how would you know before you are married?? or b/c you believe it better than having your own???) . . .wow this current generation is screwed up . . .wow.

Are you kidding me? I plan to adopt because there are thousands of children who deserve a loving home. I do not know if I can or cannot have children. If I can I plan to have both biological children and adopted children. And how on earth is an adopted child not "my own"? You may be the least Christ-like person on this entire website. 

5 minutes ago, BeccaKirstyn said:

Oh wow. I can't even begin to start commenting on all the ridiculous nonsense you have stated, so I'll just keep it at this. A woman can EASILY know if she can't have children BEFORE being married. The fact that you made this statement is beyond me (or the majority of your statements). 

Thank you for pointing out JoCa's absolute foolishness.

[felicityswims]

3 minutes ago, my two cents said:

@felicityswims - Has he looked into online courses? I have family members that have gotten degrees mostly online. He may also want to 'test out' of what he can. This way you can stay in-state and keep whatever it is you have lined up. I applaud your ambition, but I must say that my mom always said that kids need you even more as they get older. I also know some families that mom went to work once the kids were all in school and problems arose because of it. Just be real careful. Some things really aren't worth it. I will also say that my husband does 100% of the 'providing' but neither of us consider this "unfair" - it's all in how you look at it. 

I came across this blog post some time ago - basically the mom's stress from trying to do it all had a negative effect on the family so she did what she needed to do: http://www.overstuffedlife.com/2016/09/i-quit-my-job-to-stay-home-with-teens.html

2

He has looked into online courses, but he's not too into them. I can't say I blame him, online isn't for everyone, you know? And thank you for saying you "applaud my ambition". I appreciate it, as it seems SOME PEOPLE think that a woman wanting a career is something to be ashamed of. 

[JoCa]

15 minutes ago, BeccaKirstyn said:

Oh wow. I can't even begin to start commenting on all the ridiculous nonsense you have stated, so I'll just keep it at this. A woman can EASILY know if she can't have children BEFORE being married. The fact that you made this statement is beyond me (or the majority of your statements). 

Really?? The only thing I can think of is if she doesn't have the monthly issue .. . if I'm wrong, I'm wrong-I've just never heard of it before.

[my two cents]

7 minutes ago, felicityswims said:

He has looked into online courses, but he's not too into them. I can't say I blame him, online isn't for everyone, you know? And thank you for saying you "applaud my ambition". I appreciate it, as it seems SOME PEOPLE think that a woman wanting a career is something to be ashamed of. 

applaud ambition - yes, but there are lots of positive ways to channel it that don't do damage in the process. please be careful - your decisions will have ripple effects you can't even imagine.

[BeccaKirstyn]

1 minute ago, felicityswims said:

Thank you for pointing out JoCa's absolute foolishness.

And if you want my opinion: if your boyfriend hasn't even started school yet and you are halfway through undergrad, AND have the opportunity to get a law degree for free: stay where you are. Your boyfriend/future husband (if that's the case) can get his degree where you are at and you'll both practically be done at the same time, AND you'll save a ton of money, if you're wanting to start making those "big move" decisions. At the end of the day though, this decision should be made with a lot of prayer and attendance to the temple. 

[BeccaKirstyn]

2 minutes ago, JoCa said:

Really?? The only thing I can think of is if she doesn't have the monthly issue .. . if I'm wrong, I'm wrong-I've just never heard of it before.

Yes, REALLY. And yes, you're wrong. 

[Guest MormonGator]

2 hours ago, JoCa said:

You plan to adopt (b/c you can't have any-which I find strange b/c how would you know before you are married?? or b/c you believe it better than having your own???) . . .wow this current generation is screwed up . . .wow.

Do you find adoption inferior to having biological children? 

[my two cents]

1 minute ago, JoCa said:

Really?? The only thing I can think of is if she doesn't have the monthly issue .. . if I'm wrong, I'm wrong-I've just never heard of it before.

Years ago while I was serving in YW, one of the girls said that a car accident she was in really messed things up and doctors told her she wouldn't be able to carry a child.

[JoCa]

11 minutes ago, felicityswims said:

Are you kidding me? I plan to adopt because there are thousands of children who deserve a loving home. I do not know if I can or cannot have children. If I can I plan to have both biological children and adopted children. And how on earth is an adopted child not "my own"? You may be the least Christ-like person on this entire website. 

Thank you for pointing out JoCa's absolute foolishness.

Lol . . .okay.  I have not called you any names, but you can call me the least Christ-like.  Got it.

Great, have both biological and adopted.  However, you did not mention having biological kids at first only adoption. My apologies for mis-interpreting your words-next time please be a little more clear.

Yes, b/c adopted means not your own . . .that is what it means. Adopted: legally take another's child and bring it up as one's own.

Take another child not your own and raise it as if it is your own . . .i.e. that it will become your own.  But it is not your flesh and blood, never will be as in the child will never have your DNA-period-that's a fact.

[felicityswims]

Just now, MormonGator said:

Do you find adoption inferior to having biological children? 

I think he does, based on the way he's speaking. And I think that's despicable. 

Just now, JoCa said:

Lol . . .okay.  I have not called you any names, but you can call me the least Christ-like.  Got it.

Great, have both biological and adopted.  However, you did not mention having biological kids at first only adoption. My apologies for mis-interpreting your words-next time please be a little more clear.

Yes, b/c adopted means not your own . . .that is what it means. Adopted: legally take another's child and bring it up as one's own.

Take another child not your own and raise it as if it is your own . . .i.e. that it will become your own.  But it is not your flesh and blood, never will be as in the child will never have your DNA-period-that's a fact.

Family and children don't need DNA. Love has nothing to do with DNA, and if you think families are any less because they don't share the same blood, you need to rethink your life. I was adopted by my grandparents and they are a million times more my parents than my biological parents are.