Temple Jinx?

[ctr2961]

I been a member of the church since 1989 and was Baptized in 1990.  Since 1990, I always wanted to go to the temple.  Except for my son who lives in another state with his mother, I have no family that is church supporting.

Since 1990, the routine I have about going to the temple is I work with the Bishop(sometimes months to get a bishop interview) to get on track(usually a year), get a temple recommend, then go to the stake.   I spending weeks and months trying to get a hold of the stake.  I keep calling the stake and get no call backs.  I even went to the stake and try to talk to them, but I get brushed off because "I have families that are more important."   Out of the 8 times I got a Temple recommend from a Bishop, only two was actually received by a stake member(I was received because someone missed their appointment).

Now I get to the temple, come to the front desk center and ask for someone to help with me with getting my Endowments.  Both times, I am sitting at the temple the whole day and receive no help.  I do ask about once an hour.  I get to the temple grounds at 7 am and leave at 7 pm(Two hour trip one way of being depressed.).  I see families and wards coming in and being received by the front desk and being guide back. 

"Am I missing something, or can you not go to the temple as a single?    Do I have to be married or a missionary to get my endowments?  Or am I asking for the wrong thing when I go to the front desk at the temple. "  - These are my thoughts, and I really don't know what I am supposed to be doing.  I try to continue going to church and feel depressed because I keep seeing ward temple trips and I have  a temple recommend but I can not go with them because I don't have my endowments.

As a single in a family church, I have received no clear direction on how to my endowments, than getting a temple recommend and going to the temple.

BTW, I been to temple prep classes( 5 times for married couples) and have explain the issues I have and they shrug.

I am going through the Bishop process again for a temple recommend. Since I been inactive, I have to get back on track and was wondering if anyone can provide suggestions or readings to keep my hopes up.

 

 

 

[zil]

Welcome back, @ctr2961!  I'm so sorry for all the troubles you are having in getting a temple recommend and using it.  Honestly, the experiences you describe seem extremely abnormal to me, not at all like those I've experienced and heard about, with one exception (but it was nowhere near the extent of your difficulties).  In particular, it seems like this would have to be many bishops and multiple stake presidencies, which is surprising.  I do believe your persistence will bring you blessings.

As for making things work this time, do you have a friend in the ward who is endowed?  Or home teachers?  If not, work on getting these.  Then, ask one of them to go with you when you go to get your endowment.  He can also help you get the clothing you will need before you go.  I would call / email the temple ahead of time for an appointment (unless they don't do that any more - the temple website on LDS.org should give you contact information).  If you bring someone with you from the ward, they can help you get to all the right places and ensure you get any help you need.  Plan to get to the temple at least 30 minutes before the session starts - if the temple's a busy one, plan more time.

As for preparing yourself, there's a book by Elder Packer called The Holy Temple, it's highly recommended: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0884944115/.  Also, study the creation accounts in Genesis, Moses, and Abraham.

But the best things you can do to get back on track are to study the scriptures every day, pray at the start and end of every day (and in between as needed), and attend all of your Sunday meetings.  Focus on feeling the Spirit and on inviting Christ into your life.

[Jane_Doe]

What you're describing here is very strange.  Let me clarify that I'm understanding you right.

1) Having so much difficulty getting a TR interview with the stake presidency.  Did you call the executive secretary and set up an interview appointment?

2) When you do have your TR, the procedure to get your own endowments is to call well ahead (like +2 weeks) and let the temple know you're coming.  They'll set you up with your own temple worker escort and walk you through everything.  They'll also encourage you to bring a friend escort (like someone from you ward), for the friendship, but it's not required.  Did you call the temple in advance to set up that appointment?

To to answer your specific questions.  

43 minutes ago, ctr2961 said:

Do I have to be married or a missionary to get my endowments?  

No.  I myself just got them.  No mission, no sealing.

43 minutes ago, ctr2961 said:

 Or am I asking for the wrong thing when I go to the front desk at the temple. 

Again: did you call ahead and set an appointment for your own living endowments?

The reason they want you to call well ahead is they try really hard to make special-first-time accommodations for people doing their own endowments-- like having a temple worker there for you the entire time, making sure you have lots of help throughout, super nice temple suit/dress, etc.  It's really hard for them logistically to arrange this on the fly.  

Note: you can receive your own endowments on ward temple night- if you schedule your appointment with the temple for that time.  For example, when I took my endowments out (as just me), it happened to also be the temple day for my old ward (and my friend escort's current ward), so I had lots of familiar & encouraging faces there.  

43 minutes ago, ctr2961 said:

As a single in a family church, I have received no clear direction on how to my endowments, than getting a temple recommend and going to the temple.

Does this post help explain things?

[ctr2961]

I have to admit, that I am somewhat of a introvert.  I go to church, do my calling, and tend to hide in the background.  So I do know everyone in the church by name, I am not really friends with anyone.  I have one home teacher who is older, and barely move enough to get to church.. I will have to work on that.

1) Having so much difficulty getting a TR interview with the stake presidency.  Did you call the executive secretary and set up an interview appointment?

First I called for an appointment of the phone number which I got from the Bishop.  I called about once a week for a month and then try to call the Stake Presidency directly.

2) When you do have your TR, the procedure to get your own endowments is to call well ahead (like +2 weeks) and let the temple know you're coming.

I was told just to go and someone there will help me.

 

I wish the church had some type of Endowment Education Package for someone to follow so you know what to do. The Temple classes covers none of what I have seen.  It looks like I was just handed from one person to another without anyone knowing that I have no knowledge of the process.

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

@Jane_Doe is right, you need an appointment for both.  Call the executive secretary to the Stake Pres. and set un appointment. The after you get it call the temple and tell them you have a temple recommend to get your own endowments and they will set you up with a time to come in.

[Jane_Doe]

 

13 minutes ago, ctr2961 said:

I have to admit, that I am somewhat of a introvert.  I go to church, do my calling, and tend to hide in the background.  So I do know everyone in the church by name, I am not really friends with anyone.  I have one home teacher who is older, and barely move enough to get to church.. I will have to work on that.

Assuming you're a guy, you can ask him or any other endowed male TR holder to accompany you.  (Gals go with gals). 

13 minutes ago, ctr2961 said:

1) Having so much difficulty getting a TR interview with the stake presidency.  Did you call the executive secretary and set up an interview appointment?

First I called for an appointment of the phone number which I got from the Bishop.  I called about once a week for a month and then try to call the Stake Presidency directly.

That seems VERY strange that the secretary's being so hard to get a hold of, especially when you've specified it's for a TR interview.  Have you asked around why that might be?   Does he like emails instead or something?  This shouldn't be a difficult step.  (Note: I'm not blaming you here at all, just trying to figure out where else the "I'd like a TR interview" message is being lost).

13 minutes ago, ctr2961 said:

2) When you do have your TR, the procedure to get your own endowments is to call well ahead (like +2 weeks) and let the temple know you're coming.

I was told just to go and someone there will help me.

That is... very odd.  I would call your local temple and make *sure* that's what they want-- again, specify very clearly this is for your own living endowments.  

Endowments for the dead are "just come whenever", but every temple I've encountered wants something scheduled for living endowments so the can make sure you're getting helped out.

13 minutes ago, ctr2961 said:

I wish the church had some type of Endowment Education Package for someone to follow so you know what to do. The Temple classes covers none of what I have seen.  It looks like I was just handed from one person to another without anyone knowing that I have no knowledge of the process.

The Temple Prep classes actually exist specifically to cover this subject (and other prep subjects).  I'm sorry yours is falling through so bad.  I'm assuming you point-blank asked the teacher about this?

Edited November 21, 2017 by Jane_Doe

[estradling75]

Do you have a Living Ordinance Recommend?  It is in addition to the Standard Recommend and Required to do any temple ordinance work for yourself.

If you do not have one then it doesn't matter how long you sit at the temple they can not help you.  I kinda get the impression that maybe you don't and if so that means it is back to your Bishop and Stake President to get one.

[ctr2961]

Quote - Do you have a Living Ordinance Recommend?  It is in addition to the Standard Recommend and Required to do any temple ordinance work for yourself.

How many Ordinances and recommends are there? 

Maybe I am asking the wrong questions.  I been to the temple only once as  youth for baptisms of the dead.  Since then, I never been to the temple.  What do I actually "Need" with me to go to the temple the first time as an adult?  Do I get my endowments first or am I supposed to do something different? 

The temple prep classes I attend are focused on Temple Marriages, not singles who have never been to the temple as adults.  I am being to think the teachers does not know how a single goes to the temple without family.

Edited November 21, 2017 by ctr2961

[Jane_Doe]

19 minutes ago, ctr2961 said:

Do you have a Living Ordinance Recommend?  It is in addition to the Standard Recommend and Required to do any temple ordinance work for yourself.

How many Ordinances and recommends are there? 

Maybe I am asking the wrong questions.  I been to the temple only once as  youth for baptisms of the dead.  Since then, I never been to the temple.  What do I actually "Need" with me to go to the temple the first time as an adult?  Do I get my endowments first or am I supposed to do something different? 

The temple prep classes I attend are focused on Temple Marriages, not singles who have never been to the temple as adults.  I am being to think the teachers does not know how a single goes to the temple without family.

You need a Living Ordinance Temple Recommend -- it's just a special one version of the normal recommend.  You get this by:

1) Set an appointment with the Bishop's secretary to meet with the Bishop-- tell him specifically is for a temple recommend for your own endowments.  Schedule with the secretary, not the bishop directly.  Always stress that this is for your own endowment.

2) After being approved by your bishop, call the Stake President's secretary and again tell him specifically it's for a temple recommend for your own endowments.

3) After that interview, the Stake President hands you your recommend.  

4) Call your temple in advance and schedule when you would like to come.  You'll want a full day for to come for your own endowments because there's a lot involved with the endowment itself and picking out garments.  Your friend and temple worker escorts will walk you through this process and tell you what to bring (your special TR being the big thing). 

 

How is this different than someone else going to the temple to take out their endowments: It's not.  All endowments are done as individuals, not as couples.  Even if you drive to the temple with your legal spouse, you still do your own endowment as a single person.  

How is this different than a couple going to be sealed:  the interviewing process is the same (except for the "I'm getting sealed" part), but the ceremony is different.  After all, they're doing different ordinance (sealing vs endowment).  

Edited November 21, 2017 by Jane_Doe

[ctr2961]

18 minutes ago, ctr2961 said:

My older white recommends has a check box for the Endowments which was checked.  I assume that was for my endowments.  The newer ones(picture of Salt Lake Tempe) I don't see anything about Living ordinance or Endowments.  So I assume that the Bishops missed that or is that a separate recommend?

After I get both recommends and finally get  a temple visit scheduled with the temple.  Except for my garments(another topic later), is there anyone else I need? 

Also is there any do's and don't things at the temple? Example: No phones, Church Dressed

Any tips(not spoilers) while I am in the temple?

Also any terminology I need to know? 

Also when is a good time (or month) for to get my endowments?

 

[estradling75]

37 minutes ago, ctr2961 said:

Quote - Do you have a Living Ordinance Recommend?  It is in addition to the Standard Recommend and Required to do any temple ordinance work for yourself.

How many Ordinances and recommends are there?

When you were baptized a Baptismal Recommend was filled out, for converts this is done by the missionaries and you might never see it.  This is part of the record keeping process of the church and how your membership record got created.

Whenever you get ordained to the Priesthood or any other ordinance that the church tracks recommends get filled out and your records get updated showing what was done.  For Priesthood this is done by the Ward Clerk and once again you might not see it, but the Clerk might give you a little certificate for your own records.

Since the ordinances of the temple do not happen at the Ward level these recommends become visible to the member doing their own ordinances.

When you did baptisms for the Dead you got a "second" recommend for baptism (even though you did not see your first one) that was to do work for the dead only and it lasted awhile.

When you go to do further ordinances for yourself you should get two (If the bishop is on top of things).  The first one is larger and contains all the information needed to update your records and is taken from you in the temple.  The Second recommend is what everyone thinks of when you say temple recommend.  The temple looks at it, verifies it and then hands it back for you for your continue use.

Now for couples who are getting Endowed and then Sealed at the same time (or near enough) One Living Ordinance recommend can handle both because they are together.   However if you get endowed and then years later get sealed you will need a new Living Ordinance Recommend.  Or if you later on change your Sealing (re-marriage or something like that) you need one.  Basically any time you do work for you and not the dead you need a Living Ordinance Recommend

 

[Jane_Doe]

20 minutes ago, ctr2961 said:

My older white recommends has a check box for the Endowments which was checked.  I assume that was for my endowments.  The newer ones(picture of Salt Lake Tempe) I don't see anything about Living ordinance or Endowments.  So I assume that the Bishops missed that or is that a separate recommend?

 It's very possible there was a paperwork mix up.  

20 minutes ago, ctr2961 said:

Except for my garments(another topic later), is there anyone else I need? 

Anyone: a friend escort really helps out (like for answering these questions).

Anything: wear Sunday clothes, and any "getting dressed" items you want (like a hair brush).  Scriptures and journal for study/writing before and after could be good as well.  Also time-- it really is best to have a full day for this.  

*Note: your temple prep class/teacher and escort exist to help you with these questions*

20 minutes ago, ctr2961 said:

Also is there any do's and don't things at the temple? Example: No phones, Church Dressed

The big thing: you arrive in your Sunday School and change into temple clothes while there (in locker rooms similar to the baptistery ones).  You leave all your other things in the locker.

20 minutes ago, ctr2961 said:

Any tips(not spoilers) while I am in the temple?

There's a lot of small-procedural things in the temple-- they are NOT the important thing.  Do not spend your times focusing on them-- it's 100% ok that you're being walked through things (that's why you have multiple escorts).  And for your 2nd time you'll have someone else you out too (and for like the 20 times after that too).  Don't stress them at all.

The important thing: feeling the Spirit.  Clear you mind beforehand, have your mental radio tuned into the Spirit's channel.  

Side note: the temple is highly symbolic, so being familiar with symbolism helps.  So does reading the manual recommended earlier this thread, and the PofGP/Genesis.  

20 minutes ago, ctr2961 said:

Also any terminology I need to know? 

"Endowment", "initiatory", "temple"....  They're coved in the class materials.

20 minutes ago, ctr2961 said:

Also when is a good time (or month) for to get my endowments?

When works for you?

Calling your local temple will let you know their hours and any upcoming days they're closed.

Edited November 21, 2017 by Jane_Doe

[Sunday21]

Excellent answers @Jane_Doe! Some stakes are really disorganized...like mine! You have to make repeated phone calls. I am going through this at the moment! I can understand how the process can be frustrating. Try to have a sense of humour about it. I pretend I am writing a letter to a friend and describing the process or I picture a weary recording angel cheering me on! Go for it!

[ctr2961]

Thank you everyone for the advice.  A lot of things has been made clear to me about what I need to do.

Just hope for the best. 

[Bad Karma]

Wow! Man, you've really had a tough time of it. I had the exact opposite experience as you when I went through for my endowment I am not sure I could have been as patient as you have been. I probably would have handled it poorly and had to go stand in the priesthood corner for wayward elders. 

Chase after it, don't be afraid to be pushy, assertive, lovingly, but assertive never the less, and NEVER take "I'll get back to you" for an answer. If I were your Bishop and you were jumping all over me to go to the temple, I'd be making some phone calls to the Stake Presidency to help you make this happen. We're SUPPOSED to go to the temple! The temple is for EVERYONE, therefor, those in church leadership have an obligation to only hold someone back insomuch that requisite things that need be done get done. 

Charge forward!  

 

P.S. I am not a Bishop, nor do I play one on TV. 

[Sunday21]

@Bad KarmaSome stakes are unbelievably disorganized and you just have to live with it. My paperwork to work in the temple, never reached the temple so the temple just phoned my bishop. Yep! Currently, I am trying to get an appointment with the stake president. I am on week 3 of this. I got an email back from the assistant executive secretary so this a a start. Next Sunday night, I will start phoning. I will phone/email once a week for...I will keep you posted!

[ctr2961]

Had a talk with a few members out west(Provo) and my local members(east coast).  One west member(3rd Generation member) told me that you never have to make an appointment to take your endowments, only for temple marriage.  The standard process for endowments (after the stake to sign) is for the member just to head to the temple and asked for your endowments to be done. 

Also update, my elder Quorum leader talked with the Bishop and they both are planning to be my escort(s) when I go to the temple.  The Bishop is in direct contact with the Stake presidency.  They are very adamant about make sure that nothing mess up this time.  If someone things, then I am not alone.

[BeccaKirstyn]

3 minutes ago, ctr2961 said:

Had a talk with a few members out west(Provo) and my local members(east coast).  One west member(3rd Generation member) told me that you never have to make an appointment to take your endowments, only for temple marriage.  The standard process for endowments (after the stake to sign) is for the member just to head to the temple and asked for your endowments to be done. 

Don't know if this changes depending on how busy each temple is, but when I went through the temple for the first time over 2 years ago I had to schedule a time for the endowment session. 

If you're just regularly going back to participate in a session, there's no need to call ahead. 

Edited November 29, 2017 by BeccaKirstyn

[JohnsonJones]

2 hours ago, ctr2961 said:

Had a talk with a few members out west(Provo) and my local members(east coast).  One west member(3rd Generation member) told me that you never have to make an appointment to take your endowments, only for temple marriage.  The standard process for endowments (after the stake to sign) is for the member just to head to the temple and asked for your endowments to be done. 

Also update, my elder Quorum leader talked with the Bishop and they both are planning to be my escort(s) when I go to the temple.  The Bishop is in direct contact with the Stake presidency.  They are very adamant about make sure that nothing mess up this time.  If someone things, then I am not alone.

For a living sessions (receiving one's own endowment)  it probably depends on the Temple.  Many prefer that you call and set up an appointment for a session two or three weeks in advance.  That way they can prepare and if you do not have someone to assist you, they can find someone to help you out in that instance.

Good Luck on being successful this time.

[Sunday21]

At my local temple for which I am part of the staff, you need to make an appointment.

[Bad Karma]

3 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

At my local temple for which I am part of the staff, you need to make an appointment.

It may be that way fairly universally, although I can not say from my own experience, I've never NOT made an appointment, I have been excessively early, but at those moments, temple staff have only been happy to utilize me in sealings and initiatory ordinances, which is cool with me, I'm happy to help out. 

[zil]

2 hours ago, Bad Karma said:

It may be that way fairly universally, although I can not say from my own experience, I've never NOT made an appointment, I have been excessively early, but at those moments, temple staff have only been happy to utilize me in sealings and initiatory ordinances, which is cool with me, I'm happy to help out. 

She means you need to make an appointment to receive your own endowment - the first time you go through the temple - for yourself.  You're describing going to do proxy work - and you're right, no appointment needed for that.

[Bad Karma]

22 minutes ago, zil said:

She means you need to make an appointment to receive your own endowment - the first time you go through the temple - for yourself.  You're describing going to do proxy work - and you're right, no appointment needed for that.

Ok, I'm blushing now, reading comprehension sometimes eludes me. OOPS!