Divine Investiture of Authority and Stewardship

[Fether]

Do we receive divine investitute of authority from our leader (ie elders quorum president) when we are called to a calling under them?

How synonymous is ‘divine investiture of authority’ with ‘stewardship’

Edited January 19, 2018 by Fether

[Rob Osborn]

2 hours ago, Fether said:

Do we receive divine investitute of authority from our leader (ie elders quorum president) when we are called to a calling under them?

How synonymous is ‘divine investiture of authority’ with ‘stewardship’

No we dont receive that.  They arent really synonymous.

[zil]

You'll probably have to get into semantics to discuss this at length.  "Divine investiture of authority" is always used to describe when someone (always Christ, as far as I know) speaks as if he were God.  (Possibly it's been used to describe when the Spirit speaks as if he were Christ.)

"Investiture of authority" on the other hand, could be about any parties.  Thus, the "divine" part seems to be "speaking as if one were God".  While we like to talk about being Christ's hands, and stuff like that, I think it a bit risky to take that phrase and apply it to our stewardships.  In our stewardships, we try to do what Christ would have us do, but we don't pretend to actually be Christ.

[Traveler]

2 hours ago, zil said:

You'll probably have to get into semantics to discuss this at length.  "Divine investiture of authority" is always used to describe when someone (always Christ, as far as I know) speaks as if he were God.  (Possibly it's been used to describe when the Spirit speaks as if he were Christ.)

"Investiture of authority" on the other hand, could be about any parties.  Thus, the "divine" part seems to be "speaking as if one were God".  While we like to talk about being Christ's hands, and stuff like that, I think it a bit risky to take that phrase and apply it to our stewardships.  In our stewardships, we try to do what Christ would have us do, but we don't pretend to actually be Christ.

 

There are so many elements and so much “background” that must be understood before we can drill down to specifics we see in this thread – not just what is taught in scripture and revelation but even in how the law (including our modern law) is understood when someone has been charged to act for or in behalf of another (power of authority).    Let me give a small example.  I was taught that when by virtue of the priesthood, especially in performing ordinances, that I am to assume the role of G-d as if I were G-d.  In essence to be him.  I have been taught to even talk in the first person as though I was G-d.  When acting in the priesthood to give someone the gift of the Holy Ghost I was not to say something like, “I pray that G-d grant you the gift of the Holy Ghost” (Which would be acting as who I am).  Rather I have been instructed to say, “I bestow upon you the gift of the Holy Ghost”.  Thus, I speak in the first person as if I am G-d.

I am convinced that the world does not understand the “Priesthood of G-d”.  Nor do many members of the LDS Church.  It is not my purpose in this post to cast “pearls before swine” but those that make disclaimers against “divine investiture of authority” simply do not understand so many necessary and important things – I do not know where or how to start.

I will give an example from scripture of exactly this dilemma.   As Jesus started his role as Christ – he came to John to be baptized of him.  I assume the spirit rested very strongly with John as he realized that he was going to pretend to be G-d and baptize G-d.  Despite the divine commission and specific mission of John – he realized – how can I pretend to be G-d and baptize G-d?  With all the logic that the situation required and presented – John forgot his divine investiture of authority and relinquished that position with remarks that he (John) should not be baptizing G-d but that G-d rightfully should be baptizing him.  The answer Jesus gives is astonishing.  Without any argument and void of any details Jesus simply says that it is good and right for him to be baptized by John.  I am not sure anyone fully understand the significance of what happened and why – but it was much more than semantics.   

When we take upon ourselves someone’s name we become them to perform as them in every way designated as though we are them.

 

The Traveler

[zil]

And this is why it's going to be a long discussion - different perspectives.  When I think of stewardship (unless reminded, as @Traveler just did), I think strictly of "calling", not priesthood - because I'm female and everything I know about the priesthood is second hand and rather remote (no husband, no sons).  What Traveler wrote, especially about ordinances, seems quite obvious (the sort of thing that lives in your subconscious until something brings it out).

I'll leave it to the men to compare and contrast what they do with their priesthood to what Christ does when speaking as if he were the Father.

[CV75]

14 hours ago, Fether said:

Do we receive divine investitute of authority from our leader (ie elders quorum president) when we are called to a calling under them?

How synonymous is ‘divine investiture of authority’ with ‘stewardship’

We do not receive divine investiture of authority from our priesthood leaders, and it is not synonymous with stewardship.

[laronius]

The word divine relates to God and divine investiture exists only in the person of Jesus Christ. Though a person may have authority to speak on behalf of God he never speaks as if he were God. The distinction between divine investiture and stewardship is one of identity. Delegated authority exists everywhere in the Church but never delegated identity.

[Traveler]

8 hours ago, laronius said:

The word divine relates to God and divine investiture exists only in the person of Jesus Christ. Though a person may have authority to speak on behalf of God he never speaks as if he were God. The distinction between divine investiture and stewardship is one of identity. Delegated authority exists everywhere in the Church but never delegated identity.

I will provide a contrary example from scripture.  “In as much as you have done it unto the least of these my brethren, you have done it unto me”.

 

The Traveler