When Does Homeschooling Fail?

[Vort]

17 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

If I lived in an area with crap schools and no acceptable private ones, I’d certainly consider the home school option.

Which points up the difference in attitude: "Homeschooling sounds like an exciting and intriguing educational option" versus "If every other possible educational measure is out of reach, I would perhaps consider homeschooling".

[mrmarklin]

7 hours ago, Vort said:

Which points up the difference in attitude: "Homeschooling sounds like an exciting and intriguing educational option" versus "If every other possible educational measure is out of reach, I would perhaps consider homeschooling".

Yes, it’s true. I consider it a last resort.  I like the sociality of school.

[The Folk Prophet]

On 4/10/2018 at 7:54 PM, mrmarklin said:

I like the sociality of school.

Which is exactly my biggest concern with it.

[Guest]

On 4/10/2018 at 8:54 PM, mrmarklin said:

Yes, it’s true. I consider it a last resort.  I like the sociality of school.

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/BillStatus.asp?GA=100&DocTypeID=SB&DocNum=3249&GAID=14&SessionID=91&LegID=111033

This is exactly what I'm talking about.  Ah, yes, the benefits of the sociality of public schools.

[mrmarklin]

4 hours ago, Carborendum said:

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/BillStatus.asp?GA=100&DocTypeID=SB&DocNum=3249&GAID=14&SessionID=91&LegID=111033

This is exactly what I'm talking about.  Ah, yes, the benefits of the sociality of public schools.

Sad, isn’t It?

As a Libertarian, I believe that the State should not be involved in schooling at all.  Of course the promoters of public schools back in the day thought that the efforts to promote an agenda was a good thing  they likely still do.  

But the curricula is not what I mean regarding sociality  

 

Edited April 15, 2018 by mrmarklin

[Guest]

1 hour ago, mrmarklin said:

But the curricula is not what I mean regarding sociality  

Immaterial.  That is the reality. 

And if you don't understand that public school 'sociality' simply consists of conversing about and understanding sexual speech and what happened on the latest reality show, then you're living in a fantasy land.  

Anything else that you'd include in your idea of sociality can be, and often is, duplicated in homeschool groups.  My older children go to both a "Mormon Prom" and a "Homeschool Prom."  They can participate in sports events.  They have meaningful friendships with real people.

Just how many hours per week would you expect to be sufficient to associate with hyper-sexed teenagers who only care about what happened on TV last night?

[Guest MormonGator]

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

 That is the reality. 

How much time do you spend with non-LDS high school kids? 
 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

How much time do you spend with non-LDS high school kids? 

OK.  Fair question.  After all, how can I say people like mmarklin are making an ill-informed judgment based on little to no information and simply rendering summary judgment based on assumptions alone -- and then make the same mistake myself?

The reason I say what I say about public school kids is that MY kids are always telling me how impossible it is to keep up any kind of conversation with public school kids because that is all they talk about.  And these other student constantly complain how homeschooled kids are so socially awkward because they can't keep up a conversation.  Then mmarklin says exactly what these other kids say about my kids and it is pretty easy to get the big picture.

1) I don't spend much of time with any teenagers other than my own kids.  
2) I do spend enough time that I've made a very quick judgment about the kids I've met.
3) My kids spend plenty of time with both LDS and non-LDS kids in high school.  And they find it very frustrating that all they hear about is who's dating whom and just how far they're going and what was on the latest reality show.  Sometimes they drift from reality TV to some other TV shows.  They've found very little difference between LDS and non-LDS kids in public schools.
4) I've also read enough studies on how prevalent sex is among high school students.  And from what my kids tell me, there is at least a little more difference between LDS and non-LDS kids in that regard.  But only a little.

[Guest MormonGator]

5 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

OK.  Fair question.  After all, how can I say people like mmarklin are making an ill-informed judgment based on little to no information and simply rendering summary judgment based on assumptions alone -- and then make the same mistake myself?

The reason I say what I say about public school kids is that MY kids are always telling me how impossible it is to keep up any kind of conversation with public school kids because that is all they talk about.  And these other student constantly complain how homeschooled kids are so socially awkward because they can't keep up a conversation.  Then mmarklin says exactly what these other kids say about my kids and it is pretty easy to get the big picture.

1) I don't spend much of time with any teenagers other than my own kids.  
2) I do spend enough time that I've made a very quick judgment about the kids I've met.
3) My kids spend plenty of time with both LDS and non-LDS kids in high school.  And they find it very frustrating that all they hear about is who's dating whom and just how far they're going and what was on the latest reality show.  Sometimes they drift from reality TV to some other TV shows.  They've found very little difference between LDS and non-LDS kids in public schools.
4) I've also read enough studies on how prevalent sex is among high school students.  And from what my kids tell me, there is at least a little more difference between LDS and non-LDS kids in that regard.  But only a little.

Fair enough. And I didn't read @mrmarklins post. 

Remember though that those "studies" (here we go again with that word. Seriously, I can get people to believe ANYTHING if I say "A study said ...") about kids having sex are notoriously inaccurate. Believe it or not, not all kids act like those you saw on 90210 or Jersey Shore. Yes, even kids might lie to one another about how far they've gone and how much sex they've had.  

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Fair enough. And I didn't read @mrmarklins post. 

Remember though that those "studies" (here we go again with that word. Seriously, I can get people to believe ANYTHING if I say "A study said ...") about kids having sex are notoriously inaccurate. Believe it or not, not all kids act like those you saw on 90210 or Jersey Shore. Yes, even kids might lie to one another about how far they've gone and how much sex they've had.  

I never watched Jersey Shore and saw maybe two episodes of 90210.  Boring!!!

I realize studies may be biased.  But when my kids are essentially confirming by their own exposure the studies that say this, I tend to believe the studies.

[Guest MormonGator]

1 minute ago, Carborendum said:

I never watched Jersey Shore and saw maybe two episodes of 90210.  Boring!!!

I realize studies may be biased.  But when my kids are essentially confirming by their own exposure the studies that say this, I tend to believe the studies.

I'm 100% assuring you that kids gossip and lie about sex. I'm sure your kids heard that Joe has gone "all the way" with Lisa, but maybe Joe is just trying to be the big man on campus. 

And a study showed that you can live to be 144 if you eat nothing but pickles. Believe me, I read it and it said "study". So it's gotta be true.  

[Guest]

Just now, MormonGator said:

I'm 100% assuring you that kids gossip and lie about sex. I'm sure your kids heard that Joe has gone "all the way" with Lisa, but maybe Joe is just trying to be the big man on campus. 

And a study showed that you can live to be 144 if you eat nothing but pickles. Believe me, I read it and it said "study". So it's gotta be true.  

Well, then perhaps these other kids lied to my kids AND they lied to some "study."  But it still says something about teenagers these days when they feel like it's a good thing to tell people that.

[Guest MormonGator]

Just now, Carborendum said:

Well, then perhaps these other kids lied to my kids AND they lied to some "study."  But it still says something about teenagers these days when they feel like it's a good thing to tell people that.

Eh, teenagers have been like that since the dawn of time, I think. I think we (generic) like to think that the youth of today lacks morals, is corrupt, and will be the death of all of us, but in reality every single generation from 30,000 BC to 2018 has thought that way about those darn whippersnappers. 

And eat pickles. 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Eh, teenagers have been like that since the dawn of time, I think. I think we (generic) like to think that the youth of today lacks morals, is corrupt, and will be the death of all of us, but in reality every single generation from 30,000 BC to 2018 has thought that way about those darn whippersnappers. 

Let's rewind this a bit. 

My original comment was about how teenagers tend to only speak about sex/baes and TV.  That they don't speak of important things anymore.  My kids do.  And it is this disparity that makes it "seem" like homeschoolers are socially awkward. 

Other kids lie about sex and think it's a good thing.  My kids don't lie about it and they would never believe engaging in premarital sex would be considered something to brag about.

Fast forward into their adulthood.  My kids will already know how to talk about important things that will be meaningful as adults.  Other kids will be the ones who are awkward.

6 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

And eat pickles. 

I was going to make a reference to pickles as spoken of by Pres. Hinckley.  But given the context, I believe it would be taken the wrong way.  So, I'll forbear.

[anatess2]

15 hours ago, Carborendum said:

My original comment was about how teenagers tend to only speak about sex/baes and TV.  That they don't speak of important things anymore.  My kids do.  And it is this disparity that makes it "seem" like homeschoolers are socially awkward. 

I have Public School kids.  They have several friends from their Public School.  They don't do this.  I know because all of their text messages are accessible to me. 

My kids, even the one with a girlfriend whose friends also have girlfriends, don't talk much about girls or sex.  And they don't watch TV - and neither do their friends.  My oldest kid goes to an art school so most of the conversations revolve around music, especially jazz - seems like there's a lot to talk about with jazz.  They talk a lot about mental illness and LGBT issues and the like - seems like a common topic in the art school - and a lot about religion and politics.  My other kids goes to an academic school and most of their conversations revolve around stuff like the latest V-Sauce topic or an argument on Empire versus Rebel Alliance or if warp speed is feasible or the engineering marvels of an AR15 or politics.

Interestingly, it's the same stuff they talk about with their homeschooled friends.  I don't really see much of a difference between the two.  The really only tangible difference is that their homeschooled friends keep on forgetting not to call or text before 3:30pm.

 

Edited April 16, 2018 by anatess2

[Guest]

22 hours ago, anatess2 said:

I have Public School kids.  They have several friends from their Public School.  They don't do this.  I know because all of their text messages are accessible to me. 

My kids, even the one with a girlfriend whose friends also have girlfriends, don't talk much about girls or sex.  And they don't watch TV - and neither do their friends.  My oldest kid goes to an art school so most of the conversations revolve around music, especially jazz - seems like there's a lot to talk about with jazz.  They talk a lot about mental illness and LGBT issues and the like - seems like a common topic in the art school - and a lot about religion and politics.  My other kids goes to an academic school and most of their conversations revolve around stuff like the latest V-Sauce topic or an argument on Empire versus Rebel Alliance or if warp speed is feasible or the engineering marvels of an AR15 or politics.

Interestingly, it's the same stuff they talk about with their homeschooled friends.  I don't really see much of a difference between the two.  The really only tangible difference is that their homeschooled friends keep on forgetting not to call or text before 3:30pm.

I was under the impression that your kids were in charter school.  What's the whole story?

[anatess2]

42 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I was under the impression that your kids were in charter school.  What's the whole story?

Public School.  Florida has school choice called a magnet program in the Public School System.  Magnet schools are public schools that have specific interests - e.g. Science and Technology, Arts, College Prep, Montessori, etc.  They don't have to admit neighborhood kids so they can tailor their entry requirements to promote the school's focus - for example, a Science and Technology school can require student applicants to score a 5 in the State Assessments in Science and Math, the Arts school conducts auditions for entry, etc.  Some of the magnets are popular - highly rated, etc. etc. - so it's tough to get in due to competition.  But if you do long range planning, you can position your child for the highest possibility of entry into his target school.

One of my kids went to the neighborhood elementary school (we bought our house so we can go to that school) then moved on to the Arts Middle School and then to the Arts High School.  The other kid went to a Montessori elementary because he didn't thrive in the neighborhood school.  He then went on to the NASA satellite middle school and then on to the IB high school.  All these are public schools.

Edited April 17, 2018 by anatess2

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

 The other kid went to a Montessori elementary because he didn't thrive in the neighborhood school.  He then went on to the NASA satellite middle school and then on to the IB high school.  All these are public schools.

Montessori?

[anatess2]

30 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Montessori?

Yep!  A real deal Montessori public school.  The only deviation from Montessori principles is grades and assessment tests - these do not exist in Montessori method but are required by Florida law for all public schools.  Because of this, kids are ushered into the topics covered by the assessments even if their interests did not naturally flow there yet.  Also, because of the delineation of elementary and middle school, one class only has 2 age levels which is a deviation from the Montessori 3-years in one class standard - so there's the 3-5 years old class (pre K to K), then there's the 6-8 class (grades 1-3) and then the 9-10 class (grades 4-5) then the 11-13 class (grades 6-8).  So the 9-10 class has to do the full Montessori cycle in 2 years instead of 3 years.

Everything else is Montessori - classrooms are designed as work stations and not desks lined up infront of a blackboard.  The teacher doesn't teach in the traditional way - she's a facilitator.  There's no class periods - kids decide their own work schedules.  Each classroom has animals in them and a class garden, etc. etc.

So, because of the differences between Montessori and traditional schools, it is super tough to get into the Montessori.  The only way you can get in is if you started at 3 years old in the 3-5 class.  You could get into the higher grades if a kid leaves the school but you have to have Montessori experience to get in this way.  This is how I got my kid into the public school in 2nd grade.  I enrolled him in the Montessori private school first then he moved to the public school when a spot opened up.

Edited April 17, 2018 by anatess2

[raven2]

Question - have anyone heard more about the church rolling out a high school educational program through pathways? I know they announced it about a year and half ago during seminary/institute training that was broadcasted from BYUI. I just haven't heard much since than.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, raven2 said:

Question - have anyone heard more about the church rolling out a high school educational program through pathways? I know they announced it about a year and half ago during seminary/institute training that was broadcasted from BYUI. I just haven't heard much since than.

The last I heard, it was not what we thought it was.  It sounded like it was going to be a complete  high school curriculum that would be exactly what homeschoolers are looking for.  But it was eventually found to be what amounted to a small expansion of seminary and institute programs.

[NightSG]

Just going to leave this here...

https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2018/04/23/doh-katie-pavlich-thanks-jessica-valenti-for-the-accidental-psa-on-homeschooling-and-shell-hate-it/

[NightSG]

And this:

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/florida-baby-daddy-biology-test-question-170601652.html

[raven2]

On 4/22/2018 at 3:00 PM, Carborendum said:

The last I heard, it was not what we thought it was.  It sounded like it was going to be a complete  high school curriculum that would be exactly what homeschoolers are looking for.  But it was eventually found to be what amounted to a small expansion of seminary and institute programs.

Do you have any addition information or links. That would be a huge step back from what they announced. If I remember correctly they were talking about a program that they expected to serve 10 of thousands of high school age kids for their educational needs.

[Guest]

Just now, raven2 said:

Do you have any addition information or links. That would be a huge step back from what they announced. If I remember correctly they were talking about a program that they expected to serve 10 of thousands of high school age kids for their educational needs.

No.  That's just it.  I never heard of any official source or official links.  All I ever got was hearsay.  So, I really don't know what they officially intended originally.  And I still don't see what they're doing now.  But "I believe" it is what has turned into Pathways today.