Guest Posted November 22, 2018 Report Posted November 22, 2018 10 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said: Watch me and weep! Quote
clbent04 Posted November 22, 2018 Author Report Posted November 22, 2018 11 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said: Obviously. But key in clarifying misunderstood doctrines -- which amounts to the same as introducing really. Well that only took going back and forth 10x for you to say the very point I was trying to explain to you is obvious Quote
clbent04 Posted November 22, 2018 Author Report Posted November 22, 2018 11 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said: I disagree with @Carborendum. The fulness of the gospel is Christ. More specifically to come unto Him. He is the way, the truth, and the life. And the Bible, most certainly, contains that truth. All the minutiae of how we do that is not in the Bible, but it is not in the Book of Mormon either. These things work hand in hand with living prophets, other scriptures, and revelation to guide us to Christ. But Christ's atonement and the salvation that comes from it is the fulness of the gospel and is in the Bible and the Book of Mormon. Yes, exactly. And is there more than one way to come unto Christ in this life? Absolutely. Members are often unsure of exactly what "the fulness of the gospel" means, and will over-romanticize the Book of Mormon as the only book deserving of such a prestigious honor. Quote
Guest Posted November 22, 2018 Report Posted November 22, 2018 1 hour ago, clbent04 said: over-romanticize the Book of Mormon as the only book deserving of such a prestigious honor. Quote I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book. -- Joseph Smith It is not we "members" who are "unsure of exactly what the fulness of the gospel means." The prophets have told us so. https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1975/04/the-book-of-mormon-is-the-word-of-god?lang=eng Quote
clbent04 Posted November 22, 2018 Author Report Posted November 22, 2018 22 minutes ago, Carborendum said: It is not we "members" who are "unsure of exactly what the fulness of the gospel means." The prophets have told us so. https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1975/04/the-book-of-mormon-is-the-word-of-god?lang=eng Doesn't need to be over complicated. My point is the Book of Mormon doesn't uniquely contain the fulness of the gospel. You quoting JS on his saying the BOM is the most correct book doesn't contradict that. Quote
Grunt Posted November 22, 2018 Report Posted November 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, clbent04 said: Doesn't need to be over complicated. My point is the Book of Mormon doesn't uniquely contain the fulness of the gospel. You quoting JS on his saying the BOM is the most correct book doesn't contradict that. What is your point? The Book of Mormon is uniquely the book that will uniquely bring your nearer to Heavenly Father. What are you trying to convince people? That the Bible is important also? Great, we've got it. Thanks for pointing out the obvious. The Book of Mormon was given to us at this time FOR this time. God didn't appear to the Prophet and tell him to read the Bible more. He appeared and gave him what we need in our time in this, the last dispensation. To downplay that is at your own peril. To try to convince others of that is sinful. zil 1 Quote
clbent04 Posted November 22, 2018 Author Report Posted November 22, 2018 hey ya ole Gruntster @Grunt. you ever get baptized or you still just teasing everyone along? zil 1 Quote
Grunt Posted November 22, 2018 Report Posted November 22, 2018 (edited) You didn't answer my questions or address my post. Edited November 22, 2018 by Grunt Quote
clbent04 Posted November 22, 2018 Author Report Posted November 22, 2018 20 minutes ago, Grunt said: You didn't answer my questions or address my post. Are you here just to sling mud and stir things up? Happy Thanksgiving Grunty Poo zil 1 Quote
The Folk Prophet Posted November 22, 2018 Report Posted November 22, 2018 6 hours ago, clbent04 said: Well that only took going back and forth 10x for you to say the very point I was trying to explain to you is obvious Right. That's not the thing to which I was objecting. Quote
The Folk Prophet Posted November 22, 2018 Report Posted November 22, 2018 5 hours ago, clbent04 said: Members are often unsure of exactly what "the fulness of the gospel" means, Agree. 5 hours ago, clbent04 said: and will over-romanticize the Book of Mormon I'm not sure the Book of Mormon can be "over-romanticized". I'd dare say, if anything, it is significantly under-valued, under-appreciated, written off as less important than it is, and under-used. zil and Midwest LDS 2 Quote
clbent04 Posted November 23, 2018 Author Report Posted November 23, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said: I'm not sure the Book of Mormon can be "over-romanticized". I'd dare say, if anything, it is significantly under-valued, under-appreciated, written off as less important than it is, and under-used. I think we agree on all this, but then you partially quote me and it seems like we are at odds again. I only said the Book of Mormon is over-romanticized in the specific example of saying it’s the only book that contains the fullness of the gospel Edited November 23, 2018 by clbent04 Quote
mikbone Posted November 23, 2018 Report Posted November 23, 2018 The book of Mormon as written in the golden plates contain a 2/3 sealed portion written by the brother of Jared. I suspect that that portion contained the fullness of the Gospel. As President Nelson recently mentioned, there is more to be restored... Quote
The Folk Prophet Posted November 23, 2018 Report Posted November 23, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, clbent04 said: saying it’s the only book that contains the fullness of the gospel I don't believe I've ever heard anyone say that. I mean I'm sure someone, somewhere. But you seem to be under the impression that is the over-reaching common view in the church. Honestly I'm not sure what you're getting at. It seems the objective here is to convince people the Book of Mormon is less special than it is. Even if someone felt it was the "only" book that contained the fullness of the Gospel...so? What value is there in convincing them otherwise? I'm pretty sure everyone still understands that other scriptures -- even if they aren't "the fullness" are still scriptures, still of great worth, and still to be studied. So what is your objective here? Edited November 23, 2018 by The Folk Prophet zil and Grunt 2 Quote
clbent04 Posted November 23, 2018 Author Report Posted November 23, 2018 7 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said: So what is your objective here? Follow the thread and you’ll see my objective is to clarify my OP for you. You question the OP, I clarify it for you, then you tell me what I’m saying is obvious, but yet you keep pecking at the fact I said the Book of Mormon contains little essential doctrine on its own. You already said you agreed with me after I explained what I meant so why are we still here? Not sure why you want to continue partially quoting me or taking things I said out of context. If you don’t like the phraseology of saying “Some members over-romanticize the BOM by believing it’s the only book to contain the fullness of the gospel,” then get over it. It’s true. Quote
Grunt Posted November 23, 2018 Report Posted November 23, 2018 9 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said: So what is your objective here? The same as most of his other threads. Justify his apostasy and stir things up. Quote
The Folk Prophet Posted November 23, 2018 Report Posted November 23, 2018 (edited) 43 minutes ago, clbent04 said: Follow the thread and you’ll see my objective is to clarify my OP for you. Which doesn't explain the objective of the OP. 43 minutes ago, clbent04 said: If you don’t like the phraseology of saying “Some members over-romanticize the BOM by believing it’s the only book to contain the fullness of the gospel,” then get over it. It’s true. Except it being "true" is "true" if even one member sees it that way. By posting it as an "issue" to be considered there's a strong implication that it's a larger problem to be overcome. Do you see it that way? Is this, in your mind, a larger problem that the Saints, in general, need to overcome? Certainly you must see that by posting, even in implication, that the Book of Mormon isn't as important as people seem to believe, that you were going to get kick back on the matter. President Nelson asked one of the very questions you have posed for consideration. https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2017/10/the-book-of-mormon-what-would-your-life-be-like-without-it?lang=eng Somehow I don't think he meant for our takeaway to be, "Nothing would be different at all. The Book of Mormon doesn't contain anything we can't find anywhere else. People over romanticize it. It's nice and all...but not really that important in the grand scheme of things." Rather, he states: "The Book of Mormon provides the fullest and most authoritative understanding of the Atonement of Jesus Christ to be found anywhere. It teaches what it really means to be born again. From the Book of Mormon we learn about the gathering of scattered Israel. We know why we are here on earth. These and other truths are more powerfully and persuasively taught in the Book of Mormon than in any other book. The full power of the gospel of Jesus Christ is contained in the Book of Mormon. Period. "The Book of Mormon both illuminates the teachings of the Master and exposes the tactics of the adversary. The Book of Mormon teaches true doctrine to dispel false religious traditions—such as the erroneous practice of performing infant baptisms. The Book of Mormon gives purpose to life by urging us to ponder the potential of eternal life and “never-ending happiness.” The Book of Mormon shatters the false beliefs that happiness can be found in wickedness and that individual goodness is all that is required to return to the presence of God. It abolishes forever the false concepts that revelation ended with the Bible and that the heavens are sealed today." He also says, "This is the book that will help to prepare the world for the Second Coming of the Lord." (emphasis his). He then goes on to say: "Whenever I hear anyone, including myself, say, “I know the Book of Mormon is true,” I want to exclaim, “That’s nice, but it is not enough!” We need to feel, deep in “the inmost part” of our hearts, that the Book of Mormon is unequivocally the word of God. We must feel it so deeply that we would never want to live even one day without it." In contrast we get random internet guy telling us how it doesn't contain any essential doctrines that we can't get elsewhere, and that the gospel wouldn't crumble without it. Sure...then there's a bunch of backpedaling...but the over-arching (pun intended) point here still seems to stand in pretty stark contrast to President Nelson's message. In the plainest response to the OP possible, I say this: WRONG. Without the Book of Mormon the arch crumbles. Our prophets have declared this as truth. "Just as the arch crumbles if the keystone is removed, so does all the Church stand or fall with the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. The enemies of the Church understand this clearly. This is why they go to such great lengths to try to disprove the Book of Mormon, for if it can be discredited, the Prophet Joseph Smith goes with it. So does our claim to priesthood keys, and revelation, and the restored Church." -Ezra Taft Benson Nope. I don't buy that the Book of Mormon is merely a decorative piece. It is much, much more than that. Edited November 23, 2018 by The Folk Prophet zil, clbent04, JohnsonJones and 1 other 2 2 Quote
clbent04 Posted November 23, 2018 Author Report Posted November 23, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said: Is this, in your mind, a larger problem that the Saints, in general, need to overcome? No. 2 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said: Somehow I don't think he meant for our takeaway to be, "Nothing would be different at all. The Book of Mormon doesn't contain anything we can't find anywhere else. People over romanticize it. It's nice and all...but not really that important in the grand scheme of things." Agree. 2 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said: He also says, "This is the book that will help to prepare the world for the Second Coming of the Lord." (emphasis his). Agree. 2 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said: In the plainest response to the OP possible, I say this: WRONG. Without the Book of Mormon the arch crumbles. Our prophets have declared this as truth. "Just as the arch crumbles if the keystone is removed, so does all the Church stand or fall with the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. The enemies of the Church understand this clearly. This is why they go to such great lengths to try to disprove the Book of Mormon, for if it can be discredited, the Prophet Joseph Smith goes with it. So does our claim to priesthood keys, and revelation, and the restored Church." -Ezra Taft Benson Disagree. Disproving the Book of Mormon would destroy the Church. Removing it's existence entirely would not. 2 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said: I don't buy that the Book of Mormon is merely a decorative piece. It is much, much more than that. Agree. Edited November 23, 2018 by clbent04 Quote
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