I Would Like Opinions On An Activity My Kids Did In Primary

[peanutgallery]

Sorry, I am not an active poster, but I really want to know if others share my opinion.

My kids brought a Christmas tree ornament home. It was a nail with a red ribbon tied around it. They had a little poem that said what it symbolized: the nail is obvious and the ribbon represented his blood.

I found it disturbing. I have been a member my entire life and have always been taught that we , as LDS, don't focus on the way he died. It's why we don't have crosses on our buildings, aren't to wear them as jewelry or have them in our homes. I don't see any difference. The nail represents the way he died just like the cross does.

I can't imagine this activity was in a manual or intruction book approved by the Church for Primary.

[Palerider]

Sorry, I am not an active poster, but I really want to know if others share my opinion.

My kids brought a Christmas tree ornament home. It was a nail with a red ribbon tied around it. They had a little poem that said what it symbolized: the nail is obvious and the ribbon represented his blood.

I found it disturbing. I have been a member my entire life and have always been taught that we , as LDS, don't focus on the way he died. It's why we don't have crosses on our buildings, aren't to wear them as jewelry or have them in our homes. I don't see any difference. The nail represents the way he died just like the cross does.

I can't imagine this activity was in a manual or intruction book approved by the Church for Primary.

all lessons are to be followed in class as well as the activities....there is not suppose to be any outside material brought in.....all material used is suppose to be borrowed from the Material Center.I could go on with more but I won't. I think you all will get my point....

[peanutgallery]

<div class='quotemain'>

Sorry, I am not an active poster, but I really want to know if others share my opinion.

My kids brought a Christmas tree ornament home. It was a nail with a red ribbon tied around it. They had a little poem that said what it symbolized: the nail is obvious and the ribbon represented his blood.

I found it disturbing. I have been a member my entire life and have always been taught that we , as LDS, don't focus on the way he died. It's why we don't have crosses on our buildings, aren't to wear them as jewelry or have them in our homes. I don't see any difference. The nail represents the way he died just like the cross does.

I can't imagine this activity was in a manual or intruction book approved by the Church for Primary.

all lessons are to be followed in class as well as the activities....there is not suppose to be any outside material brought in.....all material used is suppose to be borrowed from the Material Center.I could go on with more but I won't. I think you all will get my point....

Yeah. I agree. I teach RS and I was told that I couldn't use anything in my lesson that I wouldn't find at LDS.org. My dad was given the same instruction when he was called to teach the high priests.

[Palerider]

Another thing to remember......the person who brought the activity in....is he or she new to the church etc....

[peanutgallery]

Another thing to remember......the person who brought the activity in....is he or she new to the church etc....

No. That's what surprised me the most. She is a lifelong member from a great family. I know them well.

[Palerider]

<div class='quotemain'>

Another thing to remember......the person who brought the activity in....is he or she new to the church etc....

No. That's what surprised me the most. She is a lifelong member from a great family. I know them well.

they should have had that approved by someone before doing that.....I would say that for any activity or project

[CrimsonKairos]

Everyone that knows me here won't be surprised by this answer, but I thought the ornament was an awesome idea.

I tire of the contempt for the cross that the majority of LDS members have. It's sadly amusing to see some people squirm at the mere thought of the cross, as if it's evil.

I can't see how an ornament can be bad if it calls to mind the atonement of Christ.

"And I, Nephi, saw that he was lifted up upon the cross and slain for the sins of the world." (1 Ne. 11:33)

"13 Behold I have given unto you my gospel, and this is the gospel which I have given unto you—that I came into the world to do the will of my Father, because my Father sent me.

14 And my Father sent me that I might be lifted up upon the cross..." (3 Ne. 27:13-14)

"...Jesus was crucified by sinful men for the sins of the world, yea, for the remission of sins unto the contrite heart." (D&C 21:9)

"I am Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who was crucified for the sins of the world..." (D&C 35:2)

So could someone please explain to me why a Christmas ornament that symbolizes the atonement on the cross, is a bad thing?

I'm actually surprised at the question: "Was the teacher a new member?" What, are we supposed to ignore the cross in our Church?

[Palerider]

I don't see where I said to ignore the cross.....I think the question was....the poster who is a Mother with children in primary was wondering or asking if this was a good idea for children...who are primary aged....

[rosie321]

<div class='quotemain'>

Sorry, I am not an active poster, but I really want to know if others share my opinion.

My kids brought a Christmas tree ornament home. It was a nail with a red ribbon tied around it. They had a little poem that said what it symbolized: the nail is obvious and the ribbon represented his blood.

I found it disturbing. I have been a member my entire life and have always been taught that we , as LDS, don't focus on the way he died. It's why we don't have crosses on our buildings, aren't to wear them as jewelry or have them in our homes. I don't see any difference. The nail represents the way he died just like the cross does.

I can't imagine this activity was in a manual or intruction book approved by the Church for Primary.

all lessons are to be followed in class as well as the activities....there is not suppose to be any outside material brought in.....all material used is suppose to be borrowed from the Material Center.I could go on with more but I won't. I think you all will get my point....

This is the struggle I have with the church with all the legalities. People get bent out of shape every time their mind may be pushed outside of the box. The first thing people jump to is the legalities of something and not discover the meaning. The person who brough the nail in wanted to most likely remind people of the gift they were given and what it cost. Its a shame meanings such as that are continually lost behind technicalities. All the technicalities remind me to much of the pharisees and saducees.

In this case the nail may have been too much for a child. But many other faiths show Christ crucified and act out situations. Sin has a price that must be paid. If the nail is a reminder and not traumatic then I don't see where it is a problem.

As far as outside materials it is understandable where there might be some concern over copyrights and messages being shared that are not in tune with the standards set forth. But its a shame that more outside things can't be used. Using only church materials isolates people from the outside world and puts the LDS faith in its own box and makes us look stuck up and arrogant to the outside world. People should be shown how to weed through the things they come in contact with.

Its frustrating that many times the usage of church only materials pushes people to become too legalistic, it doesn't always reach people (I can't say the number of times people sleep in church or tune out what the people are saying), and it puts religion in its own box. I'd rather be shaken up by outside materials and given a challenge. Some things like a nail are just what we need.

If it were not for the crucifixion of Christ "our hope would be in vain"

[CrimsonKairos]

Okay, if the primary kid is like 3-6 years old, maybe the nail would go over their heads.

But you can't seriously expect me to believe that 8-11 year-old kids who have action figures with guns and swords that depict violence and who watch movies like Ninja Turtles...these same kids are not supposed to be able to handle the awful truth of our Lord's death?

Again, I think this uncomfortable feeling about the ornament isn't about age or propriety, but about a personal disconnect with the cross in LDS religion.

[rosie321]

Okay, if the primary kid is like 3-6 years old, maybe the nail would go over their heads.

But you can't seriously expect me to believe that 8-11 year-old kids who have action figures with guns and swords that depict violence and who watch movies like Ninja Turtles...these same kids are not supposed to be able to handle the awful truth of our Lord's death?

Again, I think this uncomfortable feeling about the ornament isn't about age or propriety, but about a personal disconnect with the cross in LDS religion.

I agree with you Crimson its strange where our focus lies. Our children are exposed to violence. Many play with these violent action figures you mention in sacrament. Yet we get angry at what we see in scriptures. The violence that the scriptures present is one filled with the message of hope and love.

The cross , nails or other reminders of christ death show that there is a price to sin. It was awful and horrible. But Christ suffered so we would not have to.

Its a challenge to choose the right. I can appreciate those who would want to remember the Living Christ. But a huge part of fully understanding Christ is his death. Its hard not to fully share what he went through without explaining what he went through.

The gospel isn't comfortable or sweet. This life is not meant to be this perfect mormon video. Reading the stories of the respected characters in scriptures none of these people led comfortable lives. Everything wasn't scripted for them. These characters suffered greatly but were given the hope, support, strength they needed. They didn't have lesson manuals to carry with them that spelled out everything for them. Many times they had to step out of the standard rules to accomplish what they needed to. The people of scriptures walked by faith and the spirit. Its a shame that the church is growing complacent.

[siouxz72]

I would suggest you talk to your Bishop rather than post this information on web pages

[hanne_line]

Everyone that knows me here won't be surprised by this answer, but I thought the ornament was an awesome idea.

I tire of the contempt for the cross that the majority of LDS members have. It's sadly amusing to see some people squirm at the mere thought of the cross, as if it's evil.

I can't see how an ornament can be bad if it calls to mind the atonement of Christ.

"And I, Nephi, saw that he was lifted up upon the cross and slain for the sins of the world." (1 Ne. 11:33)

"13 Behold I have given unto you my gospel, and this is the gospel which I have given unto you—that I came into the world to do the will of my Father, because my Father sent me.

14 And my Father sent me that I might be lifted up upon the cross..." (3 Ne. 27:13-14)

"...Jesus was crucified by sinful men for the sins of the world, yea, for the remission of sins unto the contrite heart." (D&C 21:9)

"I am Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who was crucified for the sins of the world..." (D&C 35:2)

So could someone please explain to me why a Christmas ornament that symbolizes the atonement on the cross, is a bad thing?

I'm actually surprised at the question: "Was the teacher a new member?" What, are we supposed to ignore the cross in our Church?

I do agree with you here:D and I have two children in primary ...-but, okay ...I`m new in this church...

Hanne Line

[rosie321]

Because we are to remember christs life and resurrection and not the method or means through which christ died.

There are some faiths that put a huge amount of emphasis on the cross and christs suffering.

<div class='quotemain'>

Everyone that knows me here won't be surprised by this answer, but I thought the ornament was an awesome idea.

I tire of the contempt for the cross that the majority of LDS members have. It's sadly amusing to see some people squirm at the mere thought of the cross, as if it's evil.

I can't see how an ornament can be bad if it calls to mind the atonement of Christ.

"And I, Nephi, saw that he was lifted up upon the cross and slain for the sins of the world." (1 Ne. 11:33)

"13 Behold I have given unto you my gospel, and this is the gospel which I have given unto you—that I came into the world to do the will of my Father, because my Father sent me.

14 And my Father sent me that I might be lifted up upon the cross..." (3 Ne. 27:13-14)

"...Jesus was crucified by sinful men for the sins of the world, yea, for the remission of sins unto the contrite heart." (D&C 21:9)

I do agree with you here:D ...-but, okay ...I`m new in this church..

Hanne Line

"I am Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who was crucified for the sins of the world..." (D&C 35:2)

So could someone please explain to me why a Christmas ornament that symbolizes the atonement on the cross, is a bad thing?

I'm actually surprised at the question: "Was the teacher a new member?" What, are we supposed to ignore the cross in our Church?

[CrimsonKairos]

Because we are to remember christs life and resurrection and not the method or means through which christ died.

Says who?

The only reason this mentality exists is to set the LDS Church apart from other Christian churches whose main claim-to-fame is their emphasis of the cross (which, surprisingly, should be emphasized).

It's like some people would be less offended hearing a dirty word in church than hearing someone talk about the cross.

Freakin' ridiculous. This has got to change, or we're spitting on the sacrifice of God's Only Begotten Son.

The atonement was not Gethsemane.

The atonement was not the Tomb of Aramithaea.

The atonement was made on the cross.

Accept it, everyone. Read the scriptures. Stop going off the false traditions of your fathers/mothers and get doctrinal.

[rosie321]

<div class='quotemain'>

Because we are to remember christs life and resurrection and not the method or means through which christ died.

Says who?

The only reason this mentality exists is to set the LDS Church apart from other Christian churches whose main claim-to-fame is their emphasis of the cross (which, surprisingly, should be emphasized).

It's like some people would be less offended hearing a dirty word in church than hearing someone talk about the cross.

Freakin' ridiculous. This has got to change, or we're spitting on the sacrifice of God's Only Begotten Son.

The atonement = the cross. Accept it, everyone.

I just explained the common mentality of members for HLJ who had asked the question why the ornament might be seen as bad.

I wholeheartedly agree with you Crimson. I don't like it either.

There's a verse in scriptures that says to take up your cross. Other faiths tell their members to take up their cross and follow him. I think we should take upon us the FULL gospel of Jesus Christ. We can't find it through neglecting or ignoring His Sacrifice for us because it isn't pleasant.

Sad your comment about people being less offended about hearing a dirty word in church. But its true. How unfortunate.

The whole crux of the gospel and the church is based on Christ. No Christ=no church in these Latterdays. Who was christ and what meaning did His life have for us? The only way to KNOW fully the answer to these question on Christ is through His Life , ATONEMENT, and resurrection. Cutting out the atonement leaves us hopeless. Christ according to Isaiah was a man of sorrows, aquainted with grief. Kind of goes against the mormon depictions. People need to understand and have gratitude in their hearts so they can offer the only sacrifice that is required of us a contrite heart and spirit.

[Palerider]

I am not disputing what you are saying about the cross.....again....think about it......a 3yr old brings home a nail with a red ribbon around it....

[Annabelli]

Here, The Church of God (Pentacostals) have put up their big cross on the front lawn of their church with the bloody corpse thing. They gave the children their nail/ribbons last week. Several of them in my neighborhood ride the church bus. They have Christmas Trees at home.

We're getting pretty used to the bloody corpse thing as they put it on a float for the fall festival parade. The news people came out and filmed their Easter production. They tie the bloody corpse thing to the cross and drag it from the parking lot to the stage. Is it done in a spiritual fashion? Not since it is known as the bloody corpse thing.

In the LDS Church we view the nail as the cosmic axis/axis mundi around which the heavens rotate.

The red robe Jesus wears reminds us to strive to be like Heavenly Father. So a nail bearing a red ribbon has a much deeper meaning for us as we celebrate the living Christ.

[CrimsonKairos]

I don't believe we should go around with crucifixes (the image of Christ actually on the cross), but the imagery of a cross can be useful if done tastefully.

Palerider, I agree, a 3 yr. old probably wouldn't get the nail thing. I thought the OP was talking about older children. Plus, they gave the impression that regardless of their child's age, they the parent weren't comfortable with the nail.

[Annabelli]

CrimsonKairos: I can understand your concern about crosses and crucifixes because I believe that we all have a concern that needs to be addressed. There are so many things being altered. Many Catholics wear a cross around their necks. For many of them it is their personal key to Heaven. The chain never breaks and they never loose it.

If Jesus walked along a street lined with people and removed the cross from around their necks, would it be as though he were removing a yoke from their lives. Would they be surprised that they were still living without it? Would they be released from the fear that it has over their lives?

Is Jesus telling us that we should be following him through his gospel and that is the way? That we shouldn't harden our hearts with the cross?

I think that I would rather follow Jesus than to depend on a cross (key). Is Jesus the cross?

[CrimsonKairos]

If Jesus walked along a street lined with people and removed the cross from around their necks, would it be as though he were removing a yoke from their lives.

Huh? Not unless your cross necklace is made of razor blades. How can using the symbol of a cross be a yoke?

I think that I would rather follow Jesus than to depend on a cross (key). Is Jesus the cross?

The atonement is the cross, and if you are trying to point to the sacrifice for sin, that means the cross.

I'm not saying the cross is the only useful symbol relative to Jesus Christ's role as our Savior. I'm saying the cross is a powerful symbol of Christ that all too many LDS members are afraid to embrace.

[Soulsearcher]

There are so many things being altered. Many Catholics wear a cross around their necks. For many of them it is their personal key to Heaven. The chain never breaks and they never loose it.

No offense but it never ceases to amaze me how blind LDS can be to other faiths traditions.

I was raised devout Catholic, and every time i had a sacrament i got either a new cross or crucifix or rosary, each one was a treasured possession and a sign of remembrance. we don't take them off or lose them because it's a constant reminder of our faith, a beacon of faith. I still wear one even not being Christian not because it's pretty or trivial, but because it reminds me of values i still hold dear.

As for the original topic, for young kids it was not a well thought out activity, but i love the basic idea. also i sat through many 13-14 classes over the last few years, and the ones the kids learned the most in were the ones where the teachers brought in outside resources to improvise.

[Annabelli]

CrimsonKairos: For me the cross is a symbol of Truth, Service, & Love (and in that order).

Yoke as an example of the covenant Jews made with God. Their prayer shawl is the symbol of that yoke.

Many Christians wear a cross as a symbol of their covenant/yoke.

How and when should you bear a cross upon your being and when are you worthy to do so? And when are you unworthy to do so?

I see a good number of LDS wearing the cross on a necklace. They have not been excommunicated, reprimanded, or counseled. Is wearing a cross a matter of preference or committment?

I believe that if LDS members are to wear a cross there should be some very strict rules about how it is obtained and displayed.

Being mortal until death, did the Heavenly Father judge Jesus? Is this the fear that people do not want to embrace and see the cross as a symbol of judgement?

edited to add: I never use the word sin as it has been used to abuse innocent people by self righteous hypocrites.

[tiancum]

I have always hated the way the LDS bad talk the cross. For many it is a symbol of their Savior's ultimate sacrifce, and where it culminated.... Not a mere torture device. The argument goes, if he was shot by a gun would you use a gun to remember Him? Nope, but when i saw one I sure would.

Some of the atonement happened on the Cross (crimson )

if people ask why we don't wear 'em i just say, because Christ commanded us to remember him in a different way....

I then quote the new testament to them..."by this shall ye remember me..."

were just trying to do what he told us.

There is nothing wrong with a nail with a bow. It should not be something to be offended over. even if the lesson was off base a little, enjoy the fact that you have a new ornament.

[Annabelli]

I have always hated the way the LDS bad talk the cross. For many it is a symbol of their Savior's ultimate sacrifce, and where it culminated.... Not a mere torture device. The argument goes, if he was shot by a gun would you use a gun to remember Him? Nope, but when i saw one I sure would.

Some of the atonement happened on the Cross (crimson )

if people ask why we don't wear 'em i just say, because Christ commanded us to remember him in a different way....

I then quote the new testament to them..."by this shall ye remember me..."

were just trying to do what he told us.

There is nothing wrong with a nail with a bow. It should not be something to be offended over. even if the lesson was off base a little, enjoy the fact that you have a new ornament.

No thanks, I'm hanging jack rocks on my tree!