Another great 3H article

[Fether]

https://thirdhour.org/blog/faith/scripture/most-misunderstood-scriptures/

very good article, perhaps not all new things, but the content is superb. More of these please

[Vort]

I agree, good article, mainly for its thought-provoking commentary. I disagree with the author in a few cases, especially wrt D&C 130, which says exactly what he "first thought" it says. I do wish he had more TH articles like this one.

[laronius]

Good insight if not a little arrogant. I think it would have been better to say "here are additional ways of interpreting these scriptures" rather than implying "you are wrong and I am right." Many scriptures may have a specific meaning based on the context it was given but that doesn't mean that the principle being taught doesn't have many different applications. So with a little tweak in delivery I would give it an A grade.

[Anddenex]

7 hours ago, laronius said:

Good insight if not a little arrogant. I think it would have been better to say "here are additional ways of interpreting these scriptures" rather than implying "you are wrong and I am right." Many scriptures may have a specific meaning based on the context it was given but that doesn't mean that the principle being taught doesn't have many different applications. So with a little tweak in delivery I would give it an A grade.

Yep, I would agree with you; although, on some I don't actually agree with what the author specifies it actually says. This part particular, "God does not wait to bless us until we are obedient." This is a partial truth. God in fact does wait for us to be obedient to bless us. There are items also where God does not wait to bless. Exaltation is received upon predicated obedience to specific laws, covenants, and ordinances of the gospel.

So, your thought of saying here are additional ways of thinking about these scriptures would be more accurate.

Edited September 29, 2019 by Anddenex

[Just_A_Guy]

31 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

Yep, I would agree with you; although, on some I don't actually agree with what the author specifies it actually says. This part particular, "God does not wait to bless us until we are obedient." This is a partial truth. God in fact does wait for us to be obedient to bless us. There are items also where God does not wait to bless. Exaltation is received upon predicated obedience to specific laws, covenants, and ordinances of the gospel.

So, your thought of saying here are additional ways of thinking about these scriptures would be more accurate.

Tangent:  

I’m kind of re-evaluating the idea that God dots around wanting to bless us and has it in His power to do so, but legalistically thinks “ah-ah-ah, that rascally JAG hasn’t done x and so I think I won’t give him y until he does!”  I am starting to lean towards the notion that many blessings are more a situation of God saying “darn it, if JAG would just quit eating so much, then according to the laws already established he’d start losing weight and he’d feel better about himself!”  

Also, it seems to me that if all life decisions reduced to an absolute and unvarying if-then statement, there would be little room for faith or for agency of third-parties.  The Lord himself said that sometimes rain falls on both the just and the unjust.  How we square that with the D&C, I’m not quite sure . . .

[laronius]

13 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Tangent:  

I’m kind of re-evaluating the idea that God dots around wanting to bless us and has it in His power to do so, but legalistically thinks “ah-ah-ah, that rascally JAG hasn’t done x and so I think I won’t give him y until he does!”  I am starting to lean towards the notion that many blessings are more a situation of God saying “darn it, if JAG would just quit eating so much, then according to the laws already established he’d start losing weight and he’d feel better about himself!”  

Also, it seems to me that if all life decisions reduced to an absolute and unvarying if-then statement, there would be little room for faith or for agency of third-parties.  The Lord himself said that sometimes rain falls on both the just and the unjust.  How we square that with the D&C, I’m not quite sure . . .

I am a big believer in obedience to certain laws brings certain blessings. And its not God holding a carrot out in front of us either. These are eternal laws with natural consequences either to our blessing or damnation. But having said that I will say that its not always quite so clear cut either, thankfully, because of the atonement of Jesus Christ. His grace and mercy allows God to be very generous with us even when fall far short of perfect obedience to said laws. This is especially true when we make covenants with the Lord. But notwithstanding this blessing of his grace there is still only so much God can help us until we learn to obey his commandments and there are certain blessings that can come by no other way.

[Anddenex]

14 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Tangent:  

I’m kind of re-evaluating the idea that God dots around wanting to bless us and has it in His power to do so, but legalistically thinks “ah-ah-ah, that rascally JAG hasn’t done x and so I think I won’t give him y until he does!”  I am starting to lean towards the notion that many blessings are more a situation of God saying “darn it, if JAG would just quit eating so much, then according to the laws already established he’d start losing weight and he’d feel better about himself!”  

Also, it seems to me that if all life decisions reduced to an absolute and unvarying if-then statement, there would be little room for faith or for agency of third-parties.  The Lord himself said that sometimes rain falls on both the just and the unjust.  How we square that with the D&C, I’m not quite sure . . .

I don't believe the scripture is specifying "God dots around wanting to bless us..." It is teaching a principle of truth. There are laws by which blessings are predicated. If we obey that law, we receive the blessing. If we disobey the law we also receive the predicated punishment for breaking that law.

1) Exaltation is a predicated blessing, Elder Russel M. Nelson, "We cannot wish our way into the presence of God. We are to obey the laws upon which those blessings are predicated."

2) There are PBs that specify a blessing and the law predicated to receive that blessing.

3) All other kingdoms of glory are a result of obedience to a law, and disobedience to higher laws. Telestial kingdom is a result of obedience to our first estate. They have to be obedient to the laws of the second to estate to receive either Terrestrial or Celestial glories.

4) Talents received are based upon us doing something "Law of the Harvest" in order to receive something.

5) There are blessings that are predicated simply upon "asking" for them. So, yes, in some cases God is waiting "not dotting" for us to simply ask. And if we do not ask, we can't expect to receive. The easiest example is Moroni 10:3-5. Are there outliers, sure, their are outliers to every law that God seems to be obeying/honoring another law we know not of. The easiest example here is Saul who became Paul.

Quote from Joseph Smith, “God himself, finding he was in the midst of spirits and glory, because he was more intelligent, saw proper to institute laws whereby the rest could have a privilege to advance like himself” (Teachings: Joseph Smith, 210).

I am not sure how if-then statements reduce faith or agency, or how this scripture creates confusion with rain falling on the just and unjust. I personally think they flow perfectly well together. All principles/blessings/punishments/trials in this fallen world are hinged upon our moral agency (which is an eternal law).

 

Edited September 29, 2019 by Anddenex

[Just_A_Guy]

(FWIW, “dots around” should have been “sits around”.  Because Autocorrect apparently thinks “dots” is what I mean when I type “sits”.) 

[laronius]

5 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

(FWIW, “dots around” should have been “sits around”.  Because Autocorrect apparently thinks “dots” is what I mean when I type “sits”.) 

I gotta say JAG you got off mighty easy for having it autocorrect the word "sits." Could've been a whole lot worse. 😁