Zion - ready or not here we come?

[laronius]

I came across this quote from George Q Cannon in an article and it got me thinking:

"As a people we are expecting the day to come when Jesus will descend in the clouds of Heaven; but before this day comes we must be prepared to receive him. The organization of society that exists in the heavens must exist on the earth; the same condition of society, so far as it is applicable to mortal beings, must exist here."

1. To what extent is this true? Is this the purpose of the New Jerusalem, a sufficiently righteous society, or is it required of the Church membership in general, or something in between?

2. How much progress are we making towards that goal? Is each succeeding generation more righteous than the one before? 

I don't have a firm opinion on the first question. I'd like to think that the Church in general was ready to meet him but that sure seems to be a LOOONNGG way off, longer than it seems like it should, at least at the rate we are going, which opinion reveals my attitude about the second question. We often hear of people saying how much better the then upcoming generation is but I don't know if I see it. That's not to criticize the upcoming generation, rather I'm pointing out the faithfulness of previous generations. So I guess my current opinion is that something's got to give. The hastening of the work needs to translate into a hastening of individual righteousness. But is that happening?

[Fether]

58 minutes ago, laronius said:

I came across this quote from George Q Cannon in an article and it got me thinking:

"As a people we are expecting the day to come when Jesus will descend in the clouds of Heaven; but before this day comes we must be prepared to receive him. The organization of society that exists in the heavens must exist on the earth; the same condition of society, so far as it is applicable to mortal beings, must exist here."

1. To what extent is this true? Is this the purpose of the New Jerusalem, a sufficiently righteous society, or is it required of the Church membership in general, or something in between?

2. How much progress are we making towards that goal? Is each succeeding generation more righteous than the one before? 

I don't have a firm opinion on the first question. I'd like to think that the Church in general was ready to meet him but that sure seems to be a LOOONNGG way off, longer than it seems like it should, at least at the rate we are going, which opinion reveals my attitude about the second question. We often hear of people saying how much better the then upcoming generation is but I don't know if I see it. That's not to criticize the upcoming generation, rather I'm pointing out the faithfulness of previous generations. So I guess my current opinion is that something's got to give. The hastening of the work needs to translate into a hastening of individual righteousness. But is that happening?

I have heard many time throughout my life that Christ is waiting for us to make Zion before he comes. I’ve also heard the opposite, that he is coming and we need to be ready for him. 
 

Is he waiting for us to be ready? Or are we waiting for him to be ready? No idea. I imagine the latter since that seems to be what scripture suggest.   But I’m not married to that view.

If the prior is true, there either needs to be some sort of mass coming to  Christ or perhaps a removal of the non-valiant and the remaining saints will make up Zion.

As for the faithfulness of each generation, supposedly they get better and better because each generation gets the same messaging it seems.

 

[Anddenex]

"As a people we are expecting the day to come when Jesus will descend in the clouds of Heaven; but before this day comes we must be prepared to receive him. The organization of society that exists in the heavens must exist on the earth; the same condition of society, so far as it is applicable to mortal beings, must exist here."

1. To what extent is this true? Is this the purpose of the New Jerusalem, a sufficiently righteous society, or is it required of the Church membership in general, or something in between? 

In my minds eye, the meaning behind this is more a dual nature. For example, we are told in scripture that we are less than the dust of the earth, and we are also told we are of great worth, our souls. Our Father in Heaven already has a plan, no different than the birth of our Savior. The Savior's birth was at a given time, and the Savior's return is also at a given time.

In that light, the quote is true. This is what we know from within scripture:

• The Lord will come when there is a society who is ready to receive him. This will be Zion or New Jerusalem.
• The Lord will come at a time where a people are still looking for his first coming, a baby being born, who aren't ready to receive him.
• The Lord will come at a time where people are fully wicked seeking the destruction of an entire group of people

The first bullet point allows us to know that a people will have, through their own personal choice (faith unto repentance), the faith to receive him. This definitely will be the purpose of Zion. This though is already taught to everyone, so the body of the Church (its members) have already been commanded to receive him, or be prepared to receive him. So, it is required of all who have been baptized and received the Holy Ghost for sure.

2. How much progress are we making towards that goal? Is each succeeding generation more righteous than the one before? 

Collectively, I think we are far off. Individually, there are already members who are ready to receive him. President Nelson confirmed the statement that the Lord is sending strong spirits into the Church at this time; however, any spirit can break depending on their upbringing and their personal choice.

If we want to know how ready we are to receive the Lord, look to the ministering efforts of the wards. In each ward, there is probably a handful of members who are ready to receive the Lord already. They are living a life of faith and repentance. They magnify their callings. They minister faithfully unto their brethren.

As we become better ministers, that in my opinion, is the key indicator/sign of who is ready to receive the Lord and who is not.

[Traveler]

There are two points I wish to make:

First point is the meaning of the righteous - this means those that accept and keep the covenants, ordinances and laws of G-d.

The second point is that the warning of the prophets are directed towards YOU.  The question is not about everybody else in the church - it is about you and how ready and willing to keep the commandments, ordinances and laws are you.  I have speculated that the parable of the ten virgins indicates that many seemingly good and faithful members have not prepared  themselves.  Sometimes I wonder if I personally fit better with the Saints that are running out of oil.  Sometime I think the one's without oil for their lamps are those not "active" but I think that is a misinterpretation.

Then I remember Jesus with his Apostles at the last super (Passover) when he indicated that one of them was not ready for what would come next - the question in the minds of the apostles was not that it was likely Judas - the question they asked was, "L-rd is it I".  

 

The Traveler

[mikbone]

Joseph Smith - Matthew

46 And what I say unto one, I say unto all men; watch, therefore, for you know not at what hour your Lord doth come.
47 But know this, if the good man of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to have been broken up, but would have been ready.
48 Therefore be ye also ready, for in such an hour as ye think not, the Son of Man cometh.

 

“Make no mistake about it, you are a marked generation,” President Ezra Taft Benson told 8,500 seminary and institute students assembled in the Anaheim, California, Convention Arena February 8, 1987

“There has never been more expected of the faithful in such a short period of time than there is of us,” he said. “Never before on the face of this earth have the forces of evil and the forces of good been so well organized”

 

Edited January 25, 2022 by mikbone

[laronius]

11 hours ago, Fether said:

If the prior is true, there either needs to be some sort of mass coming to  Christ or perhaps a removal of the non-valiant and the remaining saints will make up Zion.

I have thought of this as well and we know that it's going to happen to one degree or another. Among the Nephites this is exactly what took place. Great destruction of the wicked followed by a year of assumed preparation before Christ appeared to them though it doesn't really say much of what happened in that year. I wish we had a more detailed account of it.

[laronius]

11 hours ago, Anddenex said:

 

Collectively, I think we are far off. Individually, there are already members who are ready to receive him. President Nelson confirmed the statement that the Lord is sending strong spirits into the Church at this time; however, any spirit can break depending on their upbringing and their personal choice.

If we want to know how ready we are to receive the Lord, look to the ministering efforts of the wards. In each ward, there is probably a handful of members who are ready to receive the Lord already. They are living a life of faith and repentance. They magnify their callings. They minister faithfully unto their brethren.

As we become better ministers, that in my opinion, is the key indicator/sign of who is ready to receive the Lord and who is not.

I think that is a pretty good self evaluation test indeed. Zion lives the law of the Celestial Kingdom, specifically the law of consecration, which goes far beyond contributing all of ones wealth to the Church and Kingdom. It's the contributing of one's self, both what we are and also what we may become.

[CV75]

12 hours ago, laronius said:

I came across this quote from George Q Cannon in an article and it got me thinking:

"As a people we are expecting the day to come when Jesus will descend in the clouds of Heaven; but before this day comes we must be prepared to receive him. The organization of society that exists in the heavens must exist on the earth; the same condition of society, so far as it is applicable to mortal beings, must exist here."

1. To what extent is this true? Is this the purpose of the New Jerusalem, a sufficiently righteous society, or is it required of the Church membership in general, or something in between?

2. How much progress are we making towards that goal? Is each succeeding generation more righteous than the one before? 

I don't have a firm opinion on the first question. I'd like to think that the Church in general was ready to meet him but that sure seems to be a LOOONNGG way off, longer than it seems like it should, at least at the rate we are going, which opinion reveals my attitude about the second question. We often hear of people saying how much better the then upcoming generation is but I don't know if I see it. That's not to criticize the upcoming generation, rather I'm pointing out the faithfulness of previous generations. So I guess my current opinion is that something's got to give. The hastening of the work needs to translate into a hastening of individual righteousness. But is that happening?

I think the Lord is coming no matter what. I think the "dominions" (1 Nephi 14:12) across the globe form the Zion societies that are preparing for Him, and within these, the wheat is growing along with the tares. Whether there are many or few, they must be prepared to receive Him, lest they be destroyed at His coming -- I take this to be the context of statements like the one you shared. CFM also teaches that the New Jerusalem is as much a concept as it is a literal place, so it is not required to be completed before the Second Coming.

"We" needs to be those who are the wheat. Given the growth of the Church over the generations since 1830, the sheer numbers would indicate that there are more covenant-keeping people upon the earth (and on the other side of the veil) today than in past generations. But we cannot take credit if we are not keeping our covenants and enjoying the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost.

Edited January 25, 2022 by CV75

[laronius]

9 hours ago, Traveler said:

  I have speculated that the parable of the ten virgins indicates that many seemingly good and faithful members have not prepared  themselves.  Sometimes I wonder if I personally fit better with the Saints that are running out of oil.  Sometime I think the one's without oil for their lamps are those not "active" but I think that is a misinterpretation.

I have wondered about this too, not about you @Traveler but about me. 😃 I would like to think that I was among the five wise virgins and yet I see a pretty good gap between myself and what I view as a Zion like individual. 

[laronius]

3 hours ago, mikbone said:

 

“There has never been more expected of the faithful in such a short period of time than there is of us,” he said. “Never before on the face of this earth have the forces of evil and the forces of good been so well organized”

 

This thought has also crossed my mind. Perhaps equivalent obedience but in the face of greater evil equals greater faithfulness. With the changes going on in the world it's probably not fair to assume a true comparison of one generation with another in determining preparedness.

[CV75]

In any case, the saints will be protected until the wickedness of the people is removed.

[Highlander]

On 1/25/2022 at 3:13 PM, Traveler said:

 I have speculated that the parable of the ten virgins indicates that many seemingly good and faithful members have not prepared  themselves.  Sometimes I wonder if I personally fit better with the Saints that are running out of oil.  Sometime I think the one's without oil for their lamps are those not "active" but I think that is a misinterpretation 

On 1/26/2022 at 12:33 AM, laronius said:

I have wondered about this too, not about you @Traveler but about me. 😃 I would like to think that I was among the five wise virgins and yet I see a pretty good gap between myself and what I view as a Zion like individual. 

Yeh I understand this. Sometimes the trials you face feel like you are burning every bit of faith you saved up just to make sure you don't get lost in the dark. I suppose that's how you build more faith by getting through the tough times. I guess I'll just get a bigger lamp.

[Traveler]

22 hours ago, Highlander said:

Yeh I understand this. Sometimes the trials you face feel like you are burning every bit of faith you saved up just to make sure you don't get lost in the dark. I suppose that's how you build more faith by getting through the tough times. I guess I'll just get a bigger lamp.

I have no problem with prayer and spirituality when in the thick of trials - what I worry about the most is when I am way a head of the curve unaware of problems, thinking all is well.

 

The Traveler