Returned Missionary Doubting The Church And God

[anthony]

I have already had some wonderful responses to my post on other sites and wanted to see if the members of this board could add anything that might help me. For reference I've copied what I've posted on other boards...

""First of all, let me apologise if this is posted in the wrong place. Perhaps perhaps a topic as difficult as doubt in God should be placed in the adult only section? I'm not sure. I also worry that my own thoughts and confusion (as foolish as it may be) might not be good for others testimonies. I have no desire to damage any one's testimony. Believe me, if I could just go on believing without all of this painful doubt life would be wonderful. I just don't want to believe in something that isn't there.

Theoretically, I should be a strong member of the church. I'm 27 years old and was born into the church. I served a full 2 year mission in a foreign country. My parents and brothers are members. My younger brothers are serving missions.

Sometimes I wonder why I can't just be like everybody else. Doubt in God is not fun. Believing in him gives so much meaning and purpose to life. Perhaps weak faith is my lot in life? My weakness God has given me to overcome? Why do others find it so easy to believe while I lack faith? Why can I say, that despite a lifetime in the Church, I cannot honestly recall a strong spiritual experience where God spoke to my soul and said I exist and I love you! I served a full mission studying and praying and working every day with all my soul despite an incredibly debilitating social anxiety disorder that often paralyzed me, where is my confirmation? Don't I deserve one? I can't stop sobbing while writing this.

Some of you may wonder, why is he doubting God instead of just the church? That is, after all, a more common problem. My reasoning is this- the organization of the church is wonderful. It is better and makes far more sense than any other church on the face of the earth. Therefore, if God exists, this is His church. I'm just not sure he exists sometimes...that last sentence was painful to write. Conversely, if this church is false, I would think God does not exist.

I know that in times like these one is encouraged to read the scriptures regularly and pray. Perhaps I should not give up on that as I have. But I also worry that by doing this daily activities it will kind of force me to believe just enough not to question so much...but then I'll eventually falter and lose faith again. Honestly, if I was a Muslim my whole life and felt my faith was weak but then decided to start praying and reading my scriptures everyday the outcome would be the same- my faith in my religion or God would be restored. It seems to me forcing yourself to do something every day makes you believe in what you are doing, no matter what it may be. I hope I'm wrong here.

Please be nice to me here. Some advice, encouragement, anything. These are the words of my soul and as I write them I find I'm crying. It's painful to doubt in something you have be brought up to believe your entire life. Thank you for your time.""

[Alvarado]

I have already had some wonderful responses to my post on other sites and wanted to see if the members of this board could add anything that might help me. For reference I've copied what I've posted on other boards...

""First of all, let me apologise if this is posted in the wrong place. Perhaps perhaps a topic as difficult as doubt in God should be placed in the adult only section? I'm not sure. I also worry that my own thoughts and confusion (as foolish as it may be) might not be good for others testimonies. I have no desire to damage any one's testimony. Believe me, if I could just go on believing without all of this painful doubt life would be wonderful. I just don't want to believe in something that isn't there.

Theoretically, I should be a strong member of the church. I'm 27 years old and was born into the church. I served a full 2 year mission in a foreign country. My parents and brothers are members. My younger brothers are serving missions.

Sometimes I wonder why I can't just be like everybody else. Doubt in God is not fun. Believing in him gives so much meaning and purpose to life. Perhaps weak faith is my lot in life? My weakness God has given me to overcome? Why do others find it so easy to believe while I lack faith? Why can I say, that despite a lifetime in the Church, I cannot honestly recall a strong spiritual experience where God spoke to my soul and said I exist and I love you! I served a full mission studying and praying and working every day with all my soul despite an incredibly debilitating social anxiety disorder that often paralyzed me, where is my confirmation? Don't I deserve one? I can't stop sobbing while writing this.

Some of you may wonder, why is he doubting God instead of just the church? That is, after all, a more common problem. My reasoning is this- the organization of the church is wonderful. It is better and makes far more sense than any other church on the face of the earth. Therefore, if God exists, this is His church. I'm just not sure he exists sometimes...that last sentence was painful to write. Conversely, if this church is false, I would think God does not exist.

I know that in times like these one is encouraged to read the scriptures regularly and pray. Perhaps I should not give up on that as I have. But I also worry that by doing this daily activities it will kind of force me to believe just enough not to question so much...but then I'll eventually falter and lose faith again. Honestly, if I was a Muslim my whole life and felt my faith was weak but then decided to start praying and reading my scriptures everyday the outcome would be the same- my faith in my religion or God would be restored. It seems to me forcing yourself to do something every day makes you believe in what you are doing, no matter what it may be. I hope I'm wrong here.

Please be nice to me here. Some advice, encouragement, anything. These are the words of my soul and as I write them I find I'm crying. It's painful to doubt in something you have be brought up to believe your entire life. Thank you for your time.""

I think you are going about this wrong. The problem I see is lack of faith. You can not believe in some thing you can not see or feel or hear with out faith.

God will not interfere with your free will. So He will not make you believe in him by showing you some Miracle or event causing you to believe .

You must decide thatGod does exist and live your life as such showing your faith in him. Once you do that the evidence you seek will come.

That is why we ask people to read scripture. It is a form of exercising faith. If you take the time to read as if it really is God's word because you decided it is ,it will come alive and change your world.

When you go to the Temple and decide before you go in that it is God's holy place ,your experience there will be awesome.

In Moroni's promise ,it asks you to ask if it is not true , implying that you have already decided that it is true and you will receive an answer.

So exercise your faith deciding God is real and is able and wanting to help you and you life will change.

Alvarado

p.s. I read your post on the other board at 11 pm and had to go to bed to get up at 5 am for an early church meeting. I tossed and turned for two hours .I could not get any sleep with you a return-missionary not believing in God. So here I am .I hope I can get some sleep now .

If you read this tonight pray for me to know that you got something out of my post get some sleep.

Just so you know I am a 54 year old man living in South Texas.

Thanks

[Moksha]

We seem to be continually gathering information and refining our belief system throughout our life and that is good. Unexamined beliefs may not be worth having anyway. Sometimes taking an inventory of exactly what it is you do believe (not what you think you should - but what you actually do believe) helps to provide some clarity for you. You must realize this spiritual pathways stuff is an individual journey, and what is spot on for someone else, may not be right for you. You are in the driver's seat for your own beliefs. They are yours to choose.

[Garden Girl]

Hello searcher...

I was reading your post and when you got to the part about sobbing as you wrote, I sobbed with you. How I wish I had some magic words for you, but I don't... I just bought a book by Stephen E. Robinson called "Believing Christ," that is supposed to be very good. I haven't gotten into it yet. It's a fairly small book, easily read in a day or two. It's been mentioned by several people as helping them. I got mine at the Deseret Book Store... paperback...

For now, all I can tell you is to not give up... continue to attend Church and read, pray, study... I leave you my testimony that I do know God is there for us, and I hope you will gain the spiritual witness you desire and need. It must be frustrating for someone who has been so active and served so diligently, and prayed so fervently, to have the doubts you have expressed.

All good wishes... The Garden Girl

[Dr. Mom]

I know that in times like these one is encouraged to read the scriptures regularly and pray. Perhaps I should not give up on that as I have. But I also worry that by doing this daily activities it will kind of force me to believe just enough not to question so much...but then I'll eventually falter and lose faith again.

Searcher-

All I know is that you're unhappy. And if you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got. Faith in God grows with you and you will never tire of it if you truly want it. God does not expect us to sit back and not question things, but He does expect obedience and faith. You're a returned missionary, son. This is what you taught for 2 years- to seek the Lord, take His name upon you and then strive to never lose touch. Can I ask something? What else has been going on in your life? I sense something else is a bit off... Feel free to privately email me if you wish. My life's experiences have taught me that you just don't go from being an active LDS member to doubting the church overnight.

[NeuroTypical]

Hi searcher!

Be welcome here. I just have a random thought. I was reading the Gospel Principles lesson on 'gifts of the spirit', and was recently reminded that we experience a relationship with deity in many different ways. Some of us have a gift of great faith. Others are gifted with an intellectual knowledge of God's reality. Others have the ability to believe the testimonies of others, and that is sufficient for them.

It's rare to find someone with all of these. For me, I've never personally experienced the emotional sensation of God's love, but I have a good intellectual understanding that He does love me, and that's enough for me. I have had several direct, unmistakable spiritual experiences, and that suffices. I have spiritual ups and downs like anyone else (and yes, pretty much we all do have them).

So, you say you don't believe. Ok, but do you know? If you don't, then do you believe others do? If none of these apply, did any of them ever apply? I'm thinking about this part of your story:

Theoretically, I should be a strong member of the church. I'm 27 years old and was born into the church. I served a full 2 year mission in a foreign country. My parents and brothers are members. My younger brothers are serving missions.

What on earth does your parent's faith have to do with yours? What does your younger brothers going on missions have to do with your testimony? IMO (and no, it's not humble at all), "because everyone else is doing it and expects me to" is a pretty lousy reason to believe in God. Going on a mission because it was expected of you, is not the same thing as a testimony.

Doubt is good and healthy and normal. But you should seek to resolve it, or it festers and eventually can turn into something bad.

I dunno, these are just my ramblings. Do any of them help?

LM

[anthony]

All I know is that you're unhappy. And if you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got. Faith in God grows with you and you will never tire of it if you truly want it. God does not expect us to sit back and not question things, but He does expect obedience and faith. You're a returned missionary, son. This is what you taught for 2 years- to seek the Lord, take His name upon you and then strive to never lose touch. Can I ask something? What else has been going on in your life? I sense something else is a bit off... Feel free to privately email me if you wish. My life's experiences have taught me that you just don't go from being an active LDS member to doubting the church overnight.

To be honest, not a whole lot has been going on in my life. I don't have any major troubles. These feelings of mine towards the church have been in the back of my mind for years, to be honest. Even one of my main reasons for serving a mission was to get a testimony...which never really came.

I don't get how people can tell me to just keep going on faith. I'm seeing a lot of that. If I had gotten confirmations in the past that this is his true church I would understand but I havn't. I honestly believe I'm just not one of those people who can feel that "burning in the bosom". This makes it dangerous for me to listen to authority figures who tell me to continue trying to believe and wait for a confirmation. Could not any leader in any church on the face of this earch tell me the exact same thing? I don't want to force myself into a faith based on nothing.

[anthony]

So, you say you don't believe. Ok, but do you know? If you don't, then do you believe others do? If none of these apply, did any of them ever apply? I'm thinking about this part of your story:What on earth does your parent's faith have to do with yours? What does your younger brothers going on missions have to do with your testimony? IMO (and no, it's not humble at all), "because everyone else is doing it and expects me to" is a pretty lousy reason to believe in God. Going on a mission because it was expected of you, is not the same thing as a testimony.

Thanks for the thoughts. It is due to you and others like you that I've decided not to give up on God, perhaps knowledge of him will come with time. However, you made some erroneous assumptions in your post which I'd like to correct. First of all, I didn't go on my mission because it was expected of me, I went to find a testimony of all that I had been taught to believe. One would assume that after 2 years of intense scripture study and working in the field I would have a strong testimony and tons of spiritual experiences to tell. One would assume wrong. Also, it is a known truth that having the entire family together united in the gospel can help overcome many doubts and keep each other strong in the faith. This is why I've mentioned my families faith. However, my own faith has never been on par with theirs.

[Garden Girl]

Searcher... you are in my mind this Sabbath morning as I prepare for church...and in my prayers. You probably feel a little better this morning, having put a voice to your doubts where you don't have to worry about answering to family, etc...having the nerve to express your innermost fears.. I say fears because it must be a fearful thing to be LDS, an RM, and be faced with doubt that there is even a God.

You haven't said "why" you think there isn't a God... is it because you haven't had a "spiritual" experience? Are you sure you haven't? Can you say what makes you doubt? Because of the chaos of the world? Mans' inhumanity to man? All the terrible things that go on in the world? That just tells me there is an Adversary...

Putting aside my own spiritual witness received time and time again, and my spiritual experiences, let me offer just a couple thoughts and musings that may seem simplistic at first glance... Have you ever really looked around you at our environment...our solar system... or really noticed your body and how perfect it really is? How it functions; how it's parts interact. Elder Russell M. Nelson gave a wonderful conference talk one time on the miracle of the human body. I suggest you find and read that...

I'm the Garden Girl for a reason...because I love to garden and have created a beautiful English-style cottage garden that could be from the pages of Better Homes & Gardens magazine... I spend many an hour among the plants and flowers, with the birds singing, bees buzzing, butterflies fluttering...observing the interaction of the plants and these critters in a marvelous ecosystem of interdependency with each component playing its part...its role in the whole. And me, in my role of steward or caretaker, having dominion yet lovingly caring for and contributing to the ecosystem...to the environment as my own part of the whole.

For example, I've observed closely the miracle of the crocus... planted by someone seven years ago as little bulbs by the end of my front porch. When I moved in, I had placed a big pot there by the porch, intending to plant something colorful. One day as I prepared the flowerpot, I noticed little green spikes poking out from around the bottom. I moved the pot and there I saw a number of small green clumps, flattened and struggling against the weight of the pot holding them down. I set the pot aside to see what would happen. In the next few days, released from their oppressor, the small clumps quickly became green shoots, leaves, and suddenly I noticed the beginning of flowers. The most brilliant purple, and a bright yellow, lifting skyward, embracing the light, dancing in the wind, turning faces to the sun, opening...opening... living. I was enchanted by their brilliance, their beauty... soon several weeks had passed and the blossoms fell to the ground, the leaves dried... sadly I trimmed them back to the ground... as the seasons progresed, all evidence of their brief glory was lost. The months went by...and then, early days of spring arrived. One day as I parked my car and walked up to the porch, my eye fell on a number of little green clumps protruding from the soil... Oh! Can it be? I kneel down... oh hello little ones... welcome back... and so it is each early spring. I watch for my little ones to appear... I murmur a welcome as I touch their little heads... how wonderful to greet you...stay...stay for a while... you made it through the rains, the windy storms... pushing your way upward, upward, seeking the light. Stay... until that certain inner "something" begins to tell you it is time to go. For now, stay, and let me enjoy the beauty of your blooms, so colorful and bright after the winter gray, let me also bloom and my spirit soar with the day... renewed... happy in the sunny spring light.

I see the miracle of the creation all around me every day, in my garden, when I walk on the beach and experience the power of the sea... I see an ordered, reasoned environment of connectedness...interdependcy...all things in a whole... one eternal round... this was not random... not happenstance... not some big bang... this is the result of the hand of a Creator. I have over 50 varieties of flowers in my garden... each with its own pattern of growth, its own structure... some contributing pollen... some providing food...shelter... certainly beauty and joy for me.

What is it within the crocus bulb that "knows" just the right time each spring to send forth its shoots, reaching upward for its brief life in the light... how does it know... what is the mechanism behind it? The crocus and millions of other intricate details and systems all around us.

Look around you Searcher... can you not see God's hand in the wonder of our world... it is us, his children, who are tearing apart His work... trampling on our purpose... ignoring His voice...

I realize many a scientist doubts a God, but many more are coming to recognize...the more they learn... that there is order and design.

This has been a long post... but all I can do is ask you to take a really close look at yourself... and your world around you... and try to ignore for a moment what "we" are doing to it and ourselves, and concentrate on the miracles...

from the beach with all good wishes...The Garden Girl

[Dr. Mom]

"This makes it dangerous for me to listen to authority figures who tell me to continue trying to believe and wait for a confirmation. Could not any leader in any church on the face of this earch tell me the exact same thing? I don't want to force myself into a faith based on nothing."

Ouch, Searcher. I have never heard of anyone not getting the confirmation they are seeking, especially if they really want it. You said nothing else is happening in your life and that's fine. But I really think you need to look deep inside and find out if you have been given your answer(s). I think sometimes, myself included, the answers were always there. We just needed to humble ourselves to understand what was there. You may not get visiting angels, a burning in your bosom, or even a tingling from within- everyone's experiences with the Spirit are different. It saddens me that you served your entire mission and did not get the testimony you were looking for. Again, this tells me something else is amiss. God answers all- not just certain people He feels should get the answers. When you want to come to terms with what it is I'm sure you'll have the support you need to make it through. I won't argue with you or debate over what's going on. I know God lives and I know He answers prayers. I pray you'll be able to know this as well.

[NeuroTypical]

Hi Searcher, thanks for the clarifications about my assumptions.

One would assume that after 2 years of intense scripture study and working in the field I would have a strong testimony and tons of spiritual experiences to tell. One would assume wrong. Also, it is a known truth that having the entire family together united in the gospel can help overcome many doubts and keep each other strong in the faith. This is why I've mentioned my families faith. However, my own faith has never been on par with theirs.

That all makes sense to me.

If you're the book-learning type, I can recommend a book. Evidences and Reconciliations by John Widstoe. You can pick up a used copy from Amazon.com for under ten bucks, including shipping.

LM

[Alvarado]

To be honest, not a whole lot has been going on in my life. I don't have any major troubles. These feelings of mine towards the church have been in the back of my mind for years, to be honest. Even one of my main reasons for serving a mission was to get a testimony...which never really came.

I don't get how people can tell me to just keep going on faith. I'm seeing a lot of that. If I had gotten confirmations in the past that this is his true church I would understand but I havn't. I honestly believe I'm just not one of those people who can feel that "burning in the bosom". This makes it dangerous for me to listen to authority figures who tell me to continue trying to believe and wait for a confirmation. Could not any leader in any church on the face of this earch tell me the exact same thing? I don't want to force myself into a faith based on nothing.

I think you don't have a clear definition of what faith is .

Faith does not mean you keep a belief if it does not grow . Blind faith is not good .

Faith in things that are true will produce fruits.

A non-religious example of what faith is.

I believed I could repair my head gasket on my car. I had seen it done ,I have the tools ,I have the manual I exercized my faith by acting on this belief. I could not .I was able to take it apart but was never able to put it back together . I put my faith in things that were not true.

A while back my computor crashed. I believed that I was inteligent enough to read and learn how to fix it . I acted on that belief. The moment you act, it ceases to be a belief and becomes an act of faith. I read and learned and over time I learned and repaired it .

In James 2:20-24 It teaches about faith and action.

Applied in religion we act on what we learn in church or in the scriptures , if it produces fruit then it was true and our faith grows and so does our belief.

Alvarado

[Maya]

Dear searcher.... I had a teacher she said: Well what do we loose if we live the life believeing in God and what do we loose if we dont!?

Do you believe that the whole universe was just a coinsidence or DO you believe that there was a power that made it happen?? Do you think that the mecanisms we see around us in plants and animals are mere coinsidence and developing? If not then you DO believe in God! Maybe you just do not know His name!

If there is no God there is no prelife exictence nor after life excistense. You belive there is not, or are you not sure? Would you maybe like to believe? Then let the seed work in you and it will grow to a big tree! Dont trow it away!

Either there IS a God or NOT! Ok if you live your life as if there was a God..what do you loose? You live a good life beeing a good person, never hurting anyone. One day if there after all is a God you will be taken home. IFF you live your life as if there is NO God .. what do you loose? Probably you get a lot of short satisfaction moments, but they do not last long! At the end IF there after all is a God.... you loose your place in the kingdom to come as you have not lived the life you should have.

I have had my doubtfull moments too...but I have decided that God excists. I have NOT red scriptures ... have not felt like so... but I been thinking a lot and I decided that no matter what, God does excist! I wont loose anything if I decide that. Now I notice myself really believing in him...Maybe you call that forcing it to me... but I do not feel like that.

If you dont decide you will doubt always!

[avatar4321]

I don't know that I have much to say. But I can only tell you what I thought and did. Before I had a testimony and knew that God was there, i didnt know for certain. I didnt even know how I would know. Reading about the spirit being described is nothing like feeling it. So i had to think things out.

I realized that if there was a God who created the whole world, it would be logical that he would have the power to speak to his creations. How when or what, i didnt know. And if there was a God, i knew that I wanted to know him. So I exercised some faith. i began just praying and searching and asking God to reveal the truth to me. And i said in my heart that wherever He lead me, even if it was away from where my family wanted me, I would believe and follow.

Ultimately the answer came and was overwhelming that Joseph Smith was a prophet, that the Book of Mormon was true and that Jesus is the Christ. It was undeniable. and along with it came the challenge to live the truth like i promised I would. Im far from perfect, but that one moment changed my life.

So my only advice is to make sure you arent just wanting to know for knowings sake. If you want the Lord to reveal the truth and Himself to you, make sure you are willing to give everything you have to Him. Those who are willing to give are more likely to received what they want.

[Daniel]

I know there were times in my life that I didn't believe Heavenly Father existed. However when I was dealing with my lack of faith I couldn't fill in the gaps of there not being a supreme being. There are just to many miracles and answers to prayers that wouldn't make sense if there was no Heavenly Father.

As for why you just cant be like everyone else. Well for me the answer is simple. Everyone is on a different journey back to Heavenly Father, to some faith comes easier then others. However like most of us out there faith is something we have to work on. If we are not spirtually feeding ourselves daily, weekly and so on then we are more susceptible to having these trials of faith.

Welcome to the board. I hope you enjoy it here and can find some fellowshipping we all need at some point in our lives.

[Guest prnldsfrms]

"If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself." John 7:17

I'm sure that it feels lonely to be where you are. It can be particularly hard to wonder why God doesn't give to you the righteous desire to know.

The one thing I do know positively is that Heavenly Father knows of you personally, and each of your struggles. He knows of your inquiry here and at other websites. He knows your struggles, knows of your efforts to follow His plan and is your biggest cheerleader. He knows to degree to which your anxiety disorder affects your ability to hear HIM and believe. He knows everything about you and He and all the hosts of heaven are routing for you to stay faithful in this very dark time. We do not know why we have specific struggles in this life. We know that they all can work together for our good, if we walk uprightly.

"We are given this insight in Doctrine and Covenants 90:24: "Search diligently, pray always, and be believing, and all things shall work together for your good, if ye walk uprightly." This stunning promise from the Lord that all things shall work together for our good is repeated many times in the scriptures, particularly to people or prophets who are suffering through the trials of their own life stories. I sense that this promise comes from a tender, caring Father who desires to bless us and give us reason to hope through our earthly journey. Knowing that eventually all things will work together for our good will help us endure affliction like the faithful people from the scriptures who knew of His promises and trusted in them, "having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them" (Hebrews 11:13). We too can embrace this promise. " Susan Tanner , April 2004 conference http://www.lds.org/conference/talk/display...-439-36,00.html

Michael Wilcox in a book called "When Your Prayers Don't seem answered" answers some of your questions. It isn't blind obedience to follow the commandments and keep doing the things that often bring comfort, even when they are not. It is rather the most non-blind of faith. It isn't that you are doing things because you are told to do them. But rather that you are trusting the Lord's promises, even when you are unable to trust anything else.

I hope the responses let you know that you are not alone in having doubts --- most do at some point during their lives (and sometimes repeatedly). If you can hang on through the doubts, search among the things of God for comfort and hope, you will eventually find yourself with the knowledge you seek that Heavenly Father lives, that Jesus is your Savior, that they appeared to Joseph Smith to restore the church, and that they continue to run the church.

BTW, eternity is a long time and the world includes millions of people who God must plan to have the blessings He has for all of His children, even though they never knew Jesus or His plan on earth. It is only in the Church of Jesus Christ of LatterDay Saints where the doctrine that ALL will have individual opportunity to make the required covenants and reach exaltation exists. I've always found that comforting (though astounded that others would not automatically understand that is just plain fair). (And in my moments where I think it would be easier to NOT be responsible for my covenants on earth, I cannot deny that my life and the lives of my family are very much blessed by our knowledge of the plan.

May I suggest good music and exercise and hanging out with positive and believing people as antidotes to your struggles? I will be praying for you.

[Still_Small_Voice]

I would like to add to what Garden Girl wrote above.

Have you ever looked at the pictures astronomers have took of the stars and galaxies? We are on one of billions of planets among billions of stars in the vast universe. It is organized so perfectly and beautifully.

I have been studying the last few months to become a computer technician one day. Computers are intricate and complex machines and yet they are nothing when compared to the marvel of the human brain or body. The organization of everything we see around us is too much to simply discount that it all just was formed out of chaos. I know there is a Supreme Being that organized our world by simply observing what is around me.

But how I truly know that Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ exist is the power I feel in my own life. I feel the Lord and His angels lift and help me in my life. I would encourage you to pray to feel the joy of the Lord in your heart. Read and listen to the counsel others have given you in this thread.

[ztodd]

Hi searcher- as has been pointed out a couple times already, there are a multitude of evidences that God lives. You just have to decide to accept those evidences and move forward. Just DECIDE to believe in God. It's that simple. I think you have felt the Spirit many times in your life, but perhaps you are not allowing yourself to believe it. Perhaps you are heeding the voice of the adversary who is telling you that if you quench the spirit and choose not to believe then you won't be held accountable for the covenants you have made.

I apologize if I'm off base, but I hope you'll be completely honest with yourself about whether or not you are quenching the spirit in your life. I'm very certain that if you are truly seeking, then the Lord is trying to speak to you, but either there is something you are doing to not allow Him to get through, or else you are denying the truth that you HAVE felt His spirit, because you don't want to feel the duty to continue to exercise the faith?

You need to know that God loves you and we all love you as your brothers and sisters. We are here for a purpose, which in part is to exercise faith - this means far more than just believing, we must take action! Faith is not passive - it is an action word! This is criticial - I think you might not receive the astounding witness you're seeking until you first take some astounding action. Yes this includes prayer and scripture study, but not just that- you've gotta go out and server your fellow man- make a plan for how to more actively follow the Savior's teachings, and put the plan into action. Do something good that is hard for you to do.

My prayers are with you- peace brother. :)

[MorningStar]

Hi! Welcome to the forum. First of all, there is a wonderful scripture someone posted on another board that I will try to hunt down for you. It says something about how to some it is given to know, to some it is given to believe. It basically says we have different levels of belief.

I think when we are looking for an answer from God, it is important to humble ourselves and accept answers that aren't earth shattering. When we do, sometimes we have powerful experiences that can leave us with no doubt of Heavenly Father's existence. Although I have always believed in God, I am still amazed at some of the things He has done to show me He is there. After fasting for an answer about something that was weighing on me for five years and telling Him I wasn't going to try to figure it out myself anymore, that I would leave it to Him to show me the truth, miracles happened for me. I finally knew the answer to what I had been asking for so long and the way things unfolded was truly bizarre. As the evidence came to me, I was quite overwhelmed and I received a blessing from a man in my ward who had no idea what was going on and it was dead on. The Spirit told me what would happen next, which was hard to accept, but it was what I had asked for - to finally know the truth about this situation that was eating away at me. He patted me on the shoulder afterwards and said, "It's not over yet." I said, "I know." In the blessing, he told me that Heavenly Father was carrying me until I could walk on my own again and as I stepped into the darkness, he would light my pathway (it was kind of funny because a couple days later we had a five day power outage), that I was going through this to learn how to trust Heavenly Father more. It was a devastating time in my life, but also very spiritually uplifting. As I dealt with this trial, He also sent me extra help to teach me how to deal with it so I wouldn't say the wrong thing and make things worse. Because of that, things are better than ever. He kept me strong during that time, but it was difficult what I had to go through. Wish I could be more specific.

A more subtle experience I had - My brother was about to go to Iraq and I was due to have my third baby any minute. I thought I would deliver early with all the contractions I was having, but then I was three days overdue and the following weekend would be our last moments with him. I like to do everything natural with my labors - just wait to go into labor on my own, no medication, nothing to manage the pain, etc. I didn't want that weekend to become about me and drag people away from him and his family, so I started to consider being induced. I really agonized over the decision and just wasn't comfortable with the idea of receiving the induction drug. I made an appt. to be induced just in case I decided to do it and they told me I could back out at any time. I kept praying that I would just go into labor already. When I asked, "Should I get induced?" the Spirit told me, "No, don't get induced." Then He would say, "Go to your induction appointment." This made no sense to me. I prayed about it two more times and the exact same thing happened. I thought, "This doesn't make any sense!" I kept the appointment on faith, we took my kids to my sister's the night before, went on our last date, and I prayed all night that I would be in labor by morning. Every day I would contract all day long without it progressing, but I was like that with all my kids. Nothing new. I was so scared about being induced, I got about 1/2 an hour of sleep and threw-up all night. As we drove to the hospital, I was contracting like usual, but nothing really powerful or anything. I felt completely let down that I wasn't actually in labor. When I got there, the nurse could tell I didn't want to be there and said I could back out. I said, "I can't. Let's just do it." Before they were going to give me the drug, they said they had to monitor me first. The nurse said, "Well you're already contracting! Why don't we just have your doctor come in and break your water?'

All of a sudden it made total sense to me and I knew breaking my water would work. I had thought many times, "If my water would just break, I would go into labor." I had only seen it one way - Either I was going to not do it or I would be getting the drugs. I was in the best mood through the whole labor knowing that my prayer was answered - not only that one, but I had prayed that my doctor would deliver my baby, that I wouldn't have to leave our kids in the middle of the night with someone else - that we could have a nice goodbye with them that wasn't rushed, and that we would be able to have the baby before my brother left. Had I gone on my own, I might have gotten one of the other doctors and it was so important to me to have my doctor who delivered my second son because I came out of that one uninjured. Three days later, our baby was blessed in church and my brother got to stand in for the blessing, we sang together with my sister which was so important to me because I wasn't sure if he would make it back home, and the day before we got to spend time together as a family. I was on a gratitude high for the longest time after that and if I had chickened out and not done what the Spirit told me, I woudn't have had that wonderful experience. Oh yes, one more prayer that was answered - I told Heavenly Father I needed this to be my easy baby after the two difficult ones. He came through on that one too. He was so content, he hardly even fussed when he wanted to eat. My doctor said he was the most content baby she had ever seen. When he was hungry, he would just ###### on his fingers and whimper a bit.

Anyway, if you are having experiences with the still small voice and you're not sure whether it's your own thoughts or the Spirit, act on it even if it makes no sense. It's a leap of faith, but it is such an incredible experience with the things that follow. :)

[Traela]

Searcher, I know what you're going through. It was agonizing as a teenager to read all those New Era stories about kids getting burnings in the bosom or feeling wrapped in God's love, while I got nothing. The one bright spot was when an elderly lady got up in testimony meeting and said, "I don't know that the Church is true, and I probably won't know in this life. But I believe it with all my heart." So I decided that I could just believe, and be ok.

But it really wasn't enough. I finally gathered my wisps of faith and decided to make a leap of faith. The fact was, I couldn't hear God. We could speculate why until the cows come home, but that wouldn't change the reality. So my thought process went like this: I choose to believe that there is a God, and that He loves me. If there is a God, then He knows that I can't hear or feel him, except perhaps in the mildest, most indirect way. If He loves me, then He wants to communicate with me in spite of my limitations. Therefore, He will answer my prayers indirectly, in a manner that I can perceive.

So I started looking outside of myself for answers to my prayers. And you know what? I found them. And my wisps of faith grew thicker. I now have to courage to pray with the hope that my prayers will be answered, one way or another. I occasionally even get impressions that I think come from God, so I act on them accordingly.

[anthony]

Searcher, I know what you're going through. It was agonizing as a teenager to read all those New Era stories about kids getting burnings in the bosom or feeling wrapped in God's love, while I got nothing. The one bright spot was when an elderly lady got up in testimony meeting and said, "I don't know that the Church is true, and I probably won't know in this life. But I believe it with all my heart." So I decided that I could just believe, and be ok.

But it really wasn't enough. I finally gathered my wisps of faith and decided to make a leap of faith. The fact was, I couldn't hear God. We could speculate why until the cows come home, but that wouldn't change the reality. So my thought process went like this: I choose to believe that there is a God, and that He loves me. If there is a God, then He knows that I can't hear or feel him, except perhaps in the mildest, most indirect way. If He loves me, then He wants to communicate with me in spite of my limitations. Therefore, He will answer my prayers indirectly, in a manner that I can perceive.

So I started looking outside of myself for answers to my prayers. And you know what? I found them. And my wisps of faith grew thicker. I now have to courage to pray with the hope that my prayers will be answered, one way or another. I occasionally even get impressions that I think come from God, so I act on them accordingly.

I really liked what you wrote, and I think I will try to do the same. Hopefully I will be able to find and feel God soon, I will work on this. As for the church, I'm definately thinking about leaving.

[LDSBruin]

Searcher,

I have been in a similar boat as you. I am by nature a very skeptical person and am very much afraid of the way that human emotions and mindsets can be manipulated. Like you, I figured out that if the church isn't true, there is no other that is and that Christ was not our Savior. I think what has helped me a lot, is gaining a better understanding of faith. Truly, Alma was inspired when he wrote the words in ch. 32. It is important to take the initial blind step of testing God's word. I don't know how it will work for you, but for me it was invaluable to start focusing on having faith in what God has taught me. Do I believe that the principles taught in the church truly make a person happy? I found that it was easy for me to test and truly believe that living the principles of the Gospel brings happiness. As we see the benefits of these things our test of faith becomes knowledge. I know that living the law of chastity brings blessings. I know that the Word of Wisdom brings blessings. Soon I realize that I all that the church has taught me brings happiness and a feeling in my soul that they are true principles. So for me the first question became, do I actually believe Jesus Christ's teachings? It was easy to answer yes to that. The next question I approached was, do I believe that He loves me? That is was a lot harder for me to answer. But I noticed that as I repented and asked for help, I felt an easiness in my soul. I felt loved. Soon I felt the spirit more at church. I don't particularly look for any "burning", but rather deep peace and moments of intense clarity of thought when I realize, that yes, it is true. The more I test it, the more I discover that it is true.

I know that God lives, because I have tested Him on His word, and He has shown me that He loves me. I feel that love greatest through the process of repentance. He has given me a way to find peace and happiness and the only obstacle to that, has been my own self. I have never prayed and immediately felt the strong impression that God lives in a way that would feel like an undeniable answer, but I have countless times felt the peace and perspective that comes from feeling the spirit when I hear the truth. It is undeniable to me that the apostles and prophets are inspired. When I read their words, I know they are true. My bosom doesn't burn so much as my soul speaks to me in agreement when I read them. I have come to trust God in a way much like I learned to trust any other law of nature. Anyway, sorry to ramble. I wish you well in your search. I highly recommend reading the words of the prophets both ancient and modern, so that you can feel that they are true and so that you can put them to the test.

[Moksha]

I ran into this post on one of our sister forums and the wisdom of the reply seemed so good, that I brought it here in case it could help:

guess my response is going to be a little different, but i hope you'll give it no less prayerful consideration --

Who says that doubt is something that should be avoided? Not God. I see God repeatedly telling people in various ways-- both literal and symbolic --that he WANTS us to "struggle" with Him, and with the "Big Questions" in Life.

For example, Consider Jacob, who won a blessing from the Lord precisely because he "wrestled" -- and refused to give in easily or quickly (Genesis 32). The Jews have a somewhat different (and more positive) view of this episode than is often heard in Christian circles; May i encourage you to explore it a bit? -- I think you may find some meaningful ideas ---

In fact, i think we CHEAT both God and ourselves, when we try to put down, suppress, ignore or deny our questions and doubts. We're talking about the most important issues and questions in life, right? - The things that in fact, make life worth living. Shouldn't they present us with difficult questions that make us struggle? Shouldn't they be difficult to find?

Instead of fearing, avoiding or denying their questions, many people feel that the Questions are often at least as important/ valuable, as the Answers --

If i may quote a line from a movie ("On A Clear Day, You Can See Forever") that raised some of those questions in an interesting way:

".... The answers make us wise, but the questions make us human."

Being human connects you with others: If you acknowledge your questions, you begin to be more understanding and compassionate, toward others who have similar questions -- and more understanding if they find answers that differ from yours *smile*.

I think the questions themselves are important, and have much to teach us -- and we should avoid rushing to answer them too quickly or easily.

Blessings --

~Gaia

[anthony]

I ran into this post on one of our sister forums and the wisdom of the reply seemed so good, that I brought it here in case it could help:

It is an EXCELENT post, I agree. The ironic thing is, it was in response to another one of MY posts! jejeje. But yes, it is a good post :)

[ztodd]

I really liked what you wrote, and I think I will try to do the same. Hopefully I will be able to find and feel God soon, I will work on this. As for the church, I'm definately thinking about leaving.

Are you thinking of leaving church only because you're doubting the existence of God, or is there more to the story? Were you offended by somebody in the church? I hope you don't give up on church yet.. Father in Heaven never gives up on us. You'll feel Him come back into your life if you let Him. If you do decide to quit church, you'll be the one missing out. On the other hand, when you do start studying your scriptures again, praying, and seeking opportunities to do good, you will begin to feel the Spirit... then don't fight it! When you feel that, accept it and welcome it. Accept it for what it is - personal witness of the reality of God.

I think the questions themselves are important, and have much to teach us -- and we should avoid rushing to answer them too quickly or easily

My response to that is- life is too short to be doubting the existence of God for very long! There is so much we can learn of Him- we can't let our doubt over whether He even exists hold us back- He is waiting to bless us and give us the peace we seek. If God answers you by giving you peace in your mind or a warm feeling in your heart, do not doubt that! Whether God exists or not is the wrong question to be getting stuck on in this life. Yes, questions have much to teach us, but once God answers, you SHOULD NOT avoid His answer!

I have felt His Spirit, and by this I know that He lives, and that He loves me. I know that He loves you and loves each and every one of His children with a perfect love. I know He loves us so much that He sent His only begotten son to die for us and teach us by perfect example how to live. He made it possible for us to return to Him, if we just accept His grace by exercising faith and repentance.