Ironhold Posted March 29, 2023 Report Share Posted March 29, 2023 (edited) OK. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Wrestling Major League Wrestling is a C-list professional wrestling organization that operates primarily out of smaller venues in the United States. It's a place where folks on the way up and folks coming back down put in time, but it has its fans. Like many wrestling promotions, they have an annual "battle royale" type event in which a large number of wrestlers flood the wrestling ring, with the last person standing getting a shot at the championship. Their "battle royale" event, Battle Riot, is coming up at the end of the month, and so they've been hyping it on their weekly MLW Underground Wrestling TV show. Well, this week's episode (in the US, it airs on cable channel Reelz at 9 PM Central Standard time, with a repeat of an older episode at 10 PM) was doing the hype reel for the event, and as part of it showed some stock images of the city where the event was going to take place. ...Complete with an image of an Angel Moroni statue. I didn't catch the city the event is taking place in, but not only is it a city with a temple whoever was putting together the images of the cityscape chose the temple as one of the images. edit - A bit of digging found that this year's Battle Riot will take place in Philadelphia - https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/temples/details/philadelphia-pennsylvania-temple?lang=eng . Edited March 29, 2023 by Ironhold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted March 29, 2023 Report Share Posted March 29, 2023 Ah memories. My dad worked at the SLTrib, and knew the sports guy, so we would get free tickets to Pro Wrestling in the Salt Palace. Oh no - the Moscow Maniac snuck a chair into the ring in his tights! The ref is distracted and BOOM! He just clobbered the unsuspecting JerseyBoy! Boo on communism! LDSGator 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted March 29, 2023 Report Share Posted March 29, 2023 Serious question: Can someone explain to me the attraction of professional wrestling? Because I just don't get it. LDSGator, mrmarklin, Traveler and 2 others 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSGator Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Vort said: Serious question: Can someone explain to me the attraction of professional wrestling? Because I just don't get it. Sure, very easily. It’s essentially like the movies. Yes it’s scripted, but 85% of fans know, don’t care, and are willing to suspend their disbelief in order to be entertained. Just like the movies-but if I sat in a theatre and said “Hey do you idiots know Tom Cruise isn’t really a spy?” during Mission Impossible 13 I’d get a lot of popcorn thrown at me!! Edited March 30, 2023 by LDSGator Vort 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSGator Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Vort said: Serious question: Can someone explain to me the attraction of professional wrestling? Because I just don't get it. I’m in the same boat you are to some degree, because I don’t understand why people don’t get why others like it. I truly don’t get it, but my FIL (a huge wresting fan) had a good theory . He thinks it’s class snobbery. Wrestling is very blue collar and a large set of anti wrestling people (no, no one here) enjoy looking down on the dirty unwashed masses who :: gasp :: like the WWE. It’s a weird issue to feel so passionate about but, oh well-I’m guilty of it. I used to hate it when people said it was “fake” but I understand now it’s based in ignorance. 100% of the people who say it's fake wouldn’t last two seconds with bump drills and are too cowardly to try, so their opinion on the subject is meaningless. Again, I know no one is saying that here. Edited March 30, 2023 by LDSGator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSGator Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ironhold said: Major League Wrestling is a C-list professional wrestling organization Dude, if you want C list go the local indies. You’ll see some serious trashbaggers. Guys who shouldn’t even be in the ring. “trashbagger” is cool wrestling jive for a terrible wrestler who either stole someones gimmick or just can’t preform. Edited March 30, 2023 by LDSGator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironhold Posted March 30, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 12 minutes ago, LDSGator said: Dude, if you want C list go the local indies. You’ll see some serious trashbaggers. Guys who shouldn’t even be in the ring. “trashbagger” is cool wrestling jive for a terrible wrestler who either stole someones gimmick or just can’t preform. The A-list promotions are groups like WWE, AEW, New Japan, AAA, and CMLL. Say their name, and even a lot of folks who aren't into wrestling will likely recognize them. The B-list promotions are groups like Ring of Honor, Impact! (formerly TNA), and so forth that routinely produce stars but have never really managed to gather the same presence as the A-listers. The C-list promotions offer steady work for wrestlers who either aren't ready for prime-time or have fallen from grace, promotions like MLW and Combat Zone Wrestling. The local indies are below that now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSGator Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Ironhold said: The A-list promotions are groups like WWE, AEW, New Japan, AAA, and CMLL. Say their name, and even a lot of folks who aren't into wrestling will likely recognize them. The B-list promotions are groups like Ring of Honor, Impact! (formerly TNA), and so forth that routinely produce stars but have never really managed to gather the same presence as the A-listers. The C-list promotions offer steady work for wrestlers who either aren't ready for prime-time or have fallen from grace, promotions like MLW and Combat Zone Wrestling. The local indies are below that now. You’d put AEW on the same level of the WWE…why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironhold Posted March 30, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Vort said: Serious question: Can someone explain to me the attraction of professional wrestling? Because I just don't get it. Better promotions focus on more than just having people throw down in the ring. For example, All Elite Wrestling gave "Hangman" Adam Page a full-fledged hero's journey in which he had to realize that he was drinking too much and that the only way for him to get better was to find better friends. The video's a year old at this point. Hangman no longer has the title (he had to drop it to a returning C.M. Punk, a fan favorite), but his current story arc involves him potentially having to face one of those bad friends who was ignoring his deteriorating condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSGator Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) So let me be clear. You are saying that AEW, a company formed in 2019 and has struggled with the ratings/attendance is on par with the WWE, AAA and New Japan? Am I clear? Yes or no? Edited March 30, 2023 by LDSGator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironhold Posted March 30, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 1 minute ago, LDSGator said: You’d put AEW on the same level of the WWE…why? The Wednesday Night Wars. When AEW announced that they'd worked out a deal with cable network TNT to have a two-hour show each week, WWE responded by taking NXT off of WWE Network / Peacock and putting it on cable network USA opposite AEW. What Vince McMahon didn't understand was that AEW was loaded with industry veterans like Chris Jericho, Kenny Omega, Cody Rhodes, and several others who were coming off of smoking hot runs in New Japan, Ring of Honor, and in some instances both. In fact, one early faction, "The Elite", was essentially a bunch of guys who had been in the Bullet Club over in New Japan. In contrast, NXT was WWE's developmental-tier program. Yeah it had guys like Finn Balor and Walter, but 90% of the talent were of the "not quite ready for prime-time" variety. The "war" lasted for about a year, during which AEW won a decisive victory in the ratings; there was only one single week where NXT scored higher than AEW, and even then AEW scored higher when it came to certain critical demographics. WWE was forced to move NXT off to Tuesday evening, which in turn forced Impact! to Thursdays as they couldn't compete. McMahon blamed HHH for the failure instead of accepting the blame, leading to the series of events that sent HHH to the hospital with a severe cardiac incident because of all the stress. This would cause McMahon to seize full control of creative for all three WWE shows, leading to absolute creative stagnation. The WWE wouldn't recover until McMahon was forced to resign and HHH & Stephanie were put in charge. So while WWE has the name recognition and marketing machine, AEW has the indie talents and the active developmental - to - main program pipeline. In fact, *AEW now owns Ring of Honor* after Tony Kahn bought them out last year. This is on top of long-standing talent-sharing agreements with New Japan, Stardom, and AAA, among others. LDSGator 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSGator Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 Just now, Ironhold said: The Wednesday Night Wars. When AEW announced that they'd worked out a deal with cable network TNT to have a two-hour show each week, WWE responded by taking NXT off of WWE Network / Peacock and putting it on cable network USA opposite AEW. What Vince McMahon didn't understand was that AEW was loaded with industry veterans like Chris Jericho, Kenny Omega, Cody Rhodes, and several others who were coming off of smoking hot runs in New Japan, Ring of Honor, and in some instances both. In fact, one early faction, "The Elite", was essentially a bunch of guys who had been in the Bullet Club over in New Japan. In contrast, NXT was WWE's developmental-tier program. Yeah it had guys like Finn Balor and Walter, but 90% of the talent were of the "not quite ready for prime-time" variety. The "war" lasted for about a year, during which AEW won a decisive victory in the ratings; there was only one single week where NXT scored higher than AEW, and even then AEW scored higher when it came to certain critical demographics. WWE was forced to move NXT off to Tuesday evening, which in turn forced Impact! to Thursdays as they couldn't compete. McMahon blamed HHH for the failure instead of accepting the blame, leading to the series of events that sent HHH to the hospital with a severe cardiac incident because of all the stress. This would cause McMahon to seize full control of creative for all three WWE shows, leading to absolute creative stagnation. The WWE wouldn't recover until McMahon was forced to resign and HHH & Stephanie were put in charge. So while WWE has the name recognition and marketing machine, AEW has the indie talents and the active developmental - to - main program pipeline. In fact, *AEW now owns Ring of Honor* after Tony Kahn bought them out last year. This is on top of long-standing talent-sharing agreements with New Japan, Stardom, and AAA, among others. Okay. I see it totally differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironhold Posted March 30, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 6 minutes ago, LDSGator said: So let me be clear. You are saying that AEW, a company formed in 2019 and has struggled with the ratings/attendance is on par with the WWE, AAA and New Japan? Am I clear? Yes or no? See my above post. When WWE NXT and AEW Dynamite were put head to head in the "Wednesday Night Wars", AEW pulled higher ratings on all but one week. WWE has the name recognition, money, and marketing machine, but AEW started with a lot of hot stars (like Chris Jericho and Kenny Omega) and has maintained a superior talent pipeline. LDSGator 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSGator Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) Just now, Ironhold said: See my above post. I did. Like I said, I see it vastly differently. So differently that all I can say is that I’m glad you are also into wrestling and that you enjoy AEW. Edited March 30, 2023 by LDSGator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironhold Posted March 30, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 1 minute ago, LDSGator said: Okay. I see it totally differently. Right now, AEW has four shows each week - AEW Dark Elevation, Monday 6 PM US Central Time, YouTube - developmental-tier talent plus main show talent temporarily on the back burner AEW Dark, Tuesday 6 PM US Central Time, YouTube - ditto AEW Dynamite, Wednesday 7 PM US Central Time, TBS - main weekly show. This is their primary showcase of talent and where most plot lines happen. AEW Rampage, Friday 9 PM US Central Time, TNT - secondary weekly show. Created to help provide more screen time for their ever-increasing roster, as they picked up a lot of folks WWE laid off in 2020 - 2022. There are a number of "behind the scenes" shows on YouTube and a new such show on TBS after Dynamite, and rumors have it that a fifth weekly show might come on Saturday nights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSGator Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Ironhold said: Right now, AEW has four shows each week - AEW Dark Elevation, Monday 6 PM US Central Time, YouTube - developmental-tier talent plus main show talent temporarily on the back burner AEW Dark, Tuesday 6 PM US Central Time, YouTube - ditto AEW Dynamite, Wednesday 7 PM US Central Time, TBS - main weekly show. This is their primary showcase of talent and where most plot lines happen. AEW Rampage, Friday 9 PM US Central Time, TNT - secondary weekly show. Created to help provide more screen time for their ever-increasing roster, as they picked up a lot of folks WWE laid off in 2020 - 2022. There are a number of "behind the scenes" shows on YouTube and a new such show on TBS after Dynamite, and rumors have it that a fifth weekly show might come on Saturday nights. Yes, I know this. In fact, I could probably tell everyone here about the Montreal Screwjob, Hulk Hogan’s black eye at Wrestlemania 9, and why Stone Cold refused to job to Jarrett during the Attitude Era too. All without Google. Edited March 30, 2023 by LDSGator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSGator Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 Again though-very cool to see another wrestling fan here @Ironhold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 59 minutes ago, LDSGator said: It’s essentially like the movies. Yes it’s scripted, but 85% of fans know, don’t care, and are willing to suspend their disbelief in order to be entertained. You mean it's just like terribly written, terribly acted, no budget B-movies. Some people are entertained by those. Vort and LDSGator 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSGator Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 Just now, The Folk Prophet said: You mean it's just like terribly written, terribly acted, no budget B-movies. Some people are entertained by those. Yup, all true. It’s not high art by any means. No one should say it is. To each their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSGator Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) Just saw this on a wrestling FB page I follow. Cody and Roman are in the main event this year at Wrestlemania. @Ironhold-your pick? Team Cody all the way. Edited March 30, 2023 by LDSGator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) 17 hours ago, LDSGator said: I’m in the same boat you are to some degree, because I don’t understand why people don’t get why others like it. I truly don’t get it, but my FIL (a huge wresting fan) had a good theory . He thinks it’s class snobbery. Wrestling is very blue collar and a large set of anti wrestling people (no, no one here) enjoy looking down on the dirty unwashed masses who :: gasp :: like the WWE. Hmmm. That theory seems to demonstrate something like the opposite, thinking the worst of those who don't agree with you. 17 hours ago, LDSGator said: It’s a weird issue to feel so passionate about but, oh well-I’m guilty of it. I used to hate it when people said it was “fake” but I understand now it’s based in ignorance. 100% of the people who say it's fake wouldn’t last two seconds with bump drills and are too cowardly to try, so their opinion on the subject is meaningless. Again, I know no one is saying that here. I seem to remember you saying something about pro wrestling vs. movies. Maybe you edited it out. Too bad, because that explanation made a lot of sense to me. It would be like watching a stage play and yelling, "THEY'RE ALL JUST PRETENDING! THE BAD GUY ISN'T REALLY PLOTTING TO KILL EVERYONE!" Two issues with that. First, I guess it's the milieu of physical combat as a proxy for virtue that I have never understood. I mean from childhood, when I would see huge lumpy guys throwing each other around on Ted Turner's Atlanta-based network, I didn't understand how it was entertaining. I didn't like boxing (still am not a huge fan), but I understood the idea of seeing which of two men could beat up the other one. There was no idea that one was "good" and the other "bad", just two guys trying to give each other concussions. I struggled to see that in pro wrestling, but it was all so obviously scripted (as a child and young man, I would have said "fake") that I didn't see the point. The movie thing never really occurred to me. Which leads to the second issue: I had acquaintances who really did enjoy pro wrestling, and to a man they insisted it was "real" (their word). I went back and forth with a few of them, and they never wavered in their insistence that the fights were real and on the level. I'm quite sure this wasn't just me or just a few people out in the sticks of eastern Washington that didn't get the news that pro wrestling was scripted. Richard Belzer had a mid-1980s talk show called Hot Properties on which he invited Hulk Hogan and Mr. T. He accused them of participating in a pre-scripted ("fake") activity. In response, Hogan invited Belzer to join a demonstration of a pro wrestling move, then choked him out and literally let him drop to the floor, giving him a scalp wound that had to be stitched shut. The point is, Belzer clearly thought pro wrestling was "fake" or scripted, and Hogan and Mr. T obviously took exception to that characterization. For some reason, it was a controversial thing for Belzer to say that pro wrestling was not actual fighting. It's not like pro wrestling openly owned up to its scripted nature until at least past the mid-1980s. So when you're rolling your eyes at the jackasses who don't like pro wrestling, remember that many of them were told it was all real (that is, unscripted) fighting, and that the participants were actually and in reality e.g. ramming their opponents' heads into corner posts, dropping them full-weight onto their necks, and otherwise actually trying to harm or kill them. If it had been represented to such people (like me) from the beginning as a scripted drama designed for entertainment and not a straightforward athletic competition, then characterizing those who dislike or don't understand the attraction of pro wrestling as snooty, stuck up stuffed suits would make more sense. Edited March 30, 2023 by Vort Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSGator Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Vort said: Belzer He got what was coming to him. It’s nice to see. Like the hard right, gun waving guys say “Mess around and find out.” He messed around and found out. Nope, the movie comment is still there. Thanks, glad it made sense. I “roll my eyes” at people who shoot their mouth off from the couch at quarterbacks who throw interceptions, batters who strike out, and yes, people who say wrestling is fake. 99.9% of them couldn’t do a fraction what these guys do, so yes, their criticism is just a waste of breath. I think you are an engineer of some kind (correct me if I’m wrong please). If @LDSGator, a guy who can barely count to 10, starts lecturing you about how planes fly, you would 100% be within your rights to dismiss me and not even listen. Edited March 30, 2023 by LDSGator Vort 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSGator Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 Just for the record, I’m barely a casual fan of wrestling now, but as a kid I was obsessed with it. So much so that I gave serious thought to getting in the industry as a writer or something. No regrets, but in my next life I’m asking our Heavenly Father to be 6’4” and 220 pounds because I think I could be a great heel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironhold Posted March 30, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 11 minutes ago, Vort said: The point is, Belzer clearly thought pro wrestling was "fake" or scripted, and Hogan and Mr. T obviously took exception to that characterization. For some reason, it was a controversial thing for Belzer to say that pro wrestling was not actual fighting. It's not like pro wrestling openly owned up to its scripted nature until at least past the mid-1980s. So when you're rolling your eyes at the jackasses who don't like pro wrestling, remember that many of them were told it was all real (that is, unscripted) fighting, and that the participants were actually and in reality e.g. ramming their opponents' heads into corner posts, dropping them full-weight onto their necks, and otherwise actually trying to harm or kill them. If it had been represented to such people (like me) from the beginning as a scripted drama designed for entertainment and not a straightforward athletic competition, then characterizing those who dislike or don't understand the attraction of pro wrestling as snooty, stuck up stuffed suits would make more sense. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayfabe For several decades, most professional wrestling promotions in the United States went to length in order to try and make the public think that it was completely real. Any whispers of it being fake were squashed at some length, to the point that John Stossel was actually *assaulted* by wrestler David Schultz over the matter; Schultz had been ordered to throw Stossel off the trail after a disgruntled former wrestler spilled everything, but Schultz misinterpreted his instructions. This led to a lawsuit that, combined with him beefing with Mr. T backstage, got him exiled to Japan (at the time, Japan was where Western wrestlers who hadn't gotten over were shipped off to) before being black-listed from the sport itself. It was only when Vince McMahon found himself up against significant legal and financial penalties from a variety of local, state, and federal organizations that he was forced to admit it was all scripted. Several promotions, like the WWE, have since played with the prospect of it not being real, but better promotions like AEW, Combat Zone, and Ring of Honor still go all out to "sell" the action and the story arcs. LDSGator and Vort 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSGator Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 4 minutes ago, Ironhold said: was only when Vince McMahon found himself up against significant legal and financial penalties from a variety of local, state, and federal organizations that he was forced to admit it was all scripted. That, and the creation of the dirt sheet. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirt_sheet and if you want to watch “pure wrestling” I second @IronholdS mention of ROH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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