ways of progressing and increasing

[askandanswer]

 What are the primary ways and means by which you progress in the gospel and increase in faith, knowledge, wisdom and strength?

Are the improvement in faith, knowledge, wisdom and strength that you gain from overcoming trials and challenges in any way different from the faith, knowledge, wisdom and strength that you gain from the other ways in which increase in these things?

[zil2]

Studying scripture; looking for and recognizing the influence of the Holy Ghost in my life; but by far, overcoming sin, temptation, and/or weakness with the help of the Lord (of course) - leaving some chunk of the "natural man" behind - seems to do more than anything else to help me better live the gospel.  To me, this is the change of heart or conversion we speak of.

[prisonchaplain]

I heard a great teaching on this subject. The speaker addressed the elephant in the room--same-sex attraction and gender confusion. He told the story of a pilot several decades back who wanted to cross the Atlantic by plane. As he reached his cruising altitude, he realized something was wrong. He noticed that there was a rat chewing on wiring. He could not reach the rat. Suddenly, he realized that if he rose to a high enough altitude the rat would not be able to breathe. So he throttled up. Sure enough, the rat suffocated, and his problem was solved. Christians need to do likewise. When we have ungodly thoughts, we should "throttle up." In other words, bring the wrong thoughts to the scriptures and the influence of the Holy Ghost. So, fill up with God's stuff and there won't be room left for the dross. 

[zil2]

12 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

I heard a great teaching on this subject. The speaker addressed the elephant in the room--same-sex attraction and gender confusion. He told the story of a pilot several decades back who wanted to cross the Atlantic by plane. As he reached his cruising altitude, he realized something was wrong. He noticed that there was a rat chewing on wiring. He could not reach the rat. Suddenly, he realized that if he rose to a high enough altitude the rat would not be able to breathe. So he throttled up. Sure enough, the rat suffocated, and his problem was solved. Christians need to do likewise. When we have ungodly thoughts, we should "throttle up." In other words, bring the wrong thoughts to the scriptures and the influence of the Holy Ghost. So, fill up with God's stuff and there won't be room left for the dross. 

So, to summarize, Christians need to kill rats.  Got it!

[Anddenex]

19 hours ago, askandanswer said:

 What are the primary ways and means by which you progress in the gospel and increase in faith, knowledge, wisdom and strength?

Are the improvement in faith, knowledge, wisdom and strength that you gain from overcoming trials and challenges in any way different from the faith, knowledge, wisdom and strength that you gain from the other ways in which increase in these things?

Any question like this will always bring me to the following verses of scripture:

1. Abraham 1:2 --> knowledge then obedience, then more knowledge and more obedience

2. 1 Nephi 10: 17, 19 --> hearing the word as given by one who has the Spirit of the Lord with them

In both scriptures, the common themes are:

1. Hearing the word taught by someone with the Spirit

2. Desire by the one hearing

3. Acting according to the desire to learn more

4. Becoming --> Feeling the witness from the Spirit yourself, and then start the process over with desire to learn more.

Yes, knowledge through our independent search and study is definitely different than improvements that come from trial. The knowledge and understanding Job gained through his experiences is very different than reading about Job's experiences and learning from them.

Our trials however highlight what we know verses what we don't know. Our trials our evidence of our faith during them. The knowledge gained is the fruit we have yet to know/experience. They definitely hit differently, and the knowledge gained through suffering is in some ways more sweet than simply learning through study.

[Traveler]

On 9/16/2023 at 10:29 PM, askandanswer said:

 What are the primary ways and means by which you progress in the gospel and increase in faith, knowledge, wisdom and strength?

Are the improvement in faith, knowledge, wisdom and strength that you gain from overcoming trials and challenges in any way different from the faith, knowledge, wisdom and strength that you gain from the other ways in which increase in these things?

We had this discussion recently in Elder’s Quorum.  I brought up the idea that the concept of improving is not at all what we may think.  I have ridden a bicycle for over 70 years.  I used to be quite good, and I proved my capabilities in competition.  I have a bronze medal (3rd place) to prove I was once among the best.  I used to commute 25 miles one way to work on a daily basis when I was not traveling.  I could complete the commute through traffic, stop signs and traffic lights in just over an hour (on a good day).  In essence, I was averaging close to 25 miles per hour.

I am no longer improving.  I have difficulty averaging just 13 miles per hour.  Five years ago, I was averaging over 15 miles per hour.  Not only are my physical capabilities diminished so are my mental capabilities.  I used to be able to quote hundreds of scriptures and reference their chapters and verses.  Now I worry about going to church that I may have forgotten to zip up my pants.

Enduring to the end has a different meaning now than when I was younger.  In all my life in the gospel and hearing the doctrine of eternal progression – I never realized what it would be like to reach the age I have now.  I do not see as well as I used to – physically or spiritually.  I watched a sister-in-law suffer dementia and eventually die not recognizing her own children.

When we are all resurrected – we ought to have this discussion again.

 

The Traveler

[Vort]

On 9/17/2023 at 12:51 PM, prisonchaplain said:

I heard a great teaching on this subject. The speaker addressed the elephant in the room--same-sex attraction and gender confusion. He told the story of a pilot several decades back who wanted to cross the Atlantic by plane. As he reached his cruising altitude, he realized something was wrong. He noticed that there was a rat chewing on wiring. He could not reach the rat. Suddenly, he realized that if he rose to a high enough altitude the rat would not be able to breathe. So he throttled up. Sure enough, the rat suffocated, and his problem was solved. Christians need to do likewise. When we have ungodly thoughts, we should "throttle up." In other words, bring the wrong thoughts to the scriptures and the influence of the Holy Ghost. So, fill up with God's stuff and there won't be room left for the dross. 

Hugh Nibley, a late and eminent LDS scholar that many on this forum are familiar with, used to talk about how the ancient Christians in the early post-apostolic period would say that the devil likes to work with bottles only half-full of food or drink. A full bottle doesn't have any room for bugs or mold, and an empty bottle doesn't have anything to spoil. So the devil likes half-full bottles. Maybe the danger we as Christians experience is when we get half-full. Just enough understanding and even inspiration to be dangerous, but not enough to stay out of trouble.