Adopting a BIC Child?

[Carborendum]

I can't find anything in the Handbook.  Maybe someone can help me.

If a child is born in the covenant, can that child be adopted by another LDS family and sealed to the adopting family?

[Ironhold]

Asked around a bit.

From what I got, it comes down to whether the parents are still alive. 

If the parents are still alive, either they or the child can decide, at a later date, that they no longer wish to be sealed, in which case it's the standard procedure for a sealing cancellation. 

If the parents are deceased, then it's on the child to decide at a later date. 

[Carborendum]

2 hours ago, Ironhold said:

If the parents are still alive, either they or the child can decide, at a later date, that they no longer wish to be sealed,

The birth parents are alive, but divorced.  Sealing cancelled.  The mother is remarried.  Father, no.  Child is an adult.

Yes, adult adoption is a thing.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Carborendum

[LDSGator]

6 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Yes, adult adoption is a thing.

It is. And no matter how noble your intentions, it’ll almost certainly cause untold misery for the family. When the new mommy and daddy die, guess who wants a cut of the inheritance?

I’ve only heard of adult adoption twice. Both times it caused a huge amount of horror for the families involved.
 

If you are going to do this I wish you the best-but you are opening a massive door with the word “DANGER” on it.    

Edited November 30, 2023 by LDSGator

[MarginOfError]

27.4

Sealing Living Children to Parents

Children who are born after their mother has been sealed to a husband in a temple are born in the covenant of that sealing. They do not need to receive the ordinance of sealing to parents.

 

38.4.2.3

Adopted or Foster Children Who Are Living

Living children who are born in the covenant or have been sealed to parents cannot be sealed to any other parents without First Presidency approval.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-handbook/38-church-policies-and-guidelines?lang=eng#title_number81

==========================================================

If the family wants the child sealed to them, they will need to meet with their bishop and ask that he make a request to the First Presidency. The Handbook is silent on what conditions are required for this to be considered. They should not expect quick answers, as the bishop will likely want to ask the Stake President, who--unless he has encountered this scenario before--will probably ask the Area Presidency. 

They should be emotionally prepared to be told "no."  I can't say what the First Presidency would look for to authorize this, but the lack of wiggle room the Handbook suggests a low probability of success.

[Carborendum]

 

On 11/30/2023 at 10:13 AM, MarginOfError said:

They should be emotionally prepared to be told "no."  I can't say what the First Presidency would look for to authorize this, but the lack of wiggle room the Handbook suggests a low probability of success.

I believe I'll have a low probability of success.  We haven't determined if we're moving forward with this.  But I thought I'd share the conditions that made me want to consider it. 

Maybe I'm not thinking straight.  So, I'd welcome some corrections.

My adult children attend a YSA ward where they know a friend who fell into familial estrangement.  Her mother and stepfather kicked her out of the home with no warning.  She was not allowed to go back into her home when she came back from a YSA activity.  She called some friends.  And after at least one home that couldn't take her in, she landed at our house.

Her father was highly abusive to all his kids.  I didn't ask for details.  But it seems that all of his kids have refused to be around him.  The one exception is the youngest boy.  It appears that the father finally realized that he was losing his kids forever.  So, he overcompensated with the young boy and decided to spoil him.

The mother re-married to a man who is not overtly abusive.  But he does things that just aren't right.  I wouldn't call it "emotionally abusive" behavior (my non-professional assessment).  Perhaps it is "emotional blackmail" -- and that may be too strong.  But I can't think of a more accurate term.  What I've witnessed first-hand is what I'd call rudeness and/or coldness.  So, is that abusive?  No. But there is clearly no love in that relationship.

When she was at our house helping with some kitchen clean up she dropped a dish and food spilled out on the floor.  She fell into tears and exhibited tremendous fear.  She cleaned it up but then went straight to her room to cry.  Empress went to her to try to soothe her.  It seems that her stepfather would throw tantrums at her for spilling something at the dinner table.  So, she feared that we would kick her out of the house for such an infraction.  Empress told her not to worry.  She was satisfied that no dishes were broken, and she (the girl) cleaned it all up before running to her room.  I tell you, whatever the details of what actually happened in that home, this type of behavior is an indicator of something not being right in that home.

The one major thing I can't get around is that they have stolen over $4000 from her.  They say that they are simply holding it for her.  But they won't give it back to her ... unless... she does certain things.  But they've already gone through several cycles of her "taking care of a few things first".  It is becoming apparent that they are never going to give that money back to her.

I've recently been entertaining myself with Mr. Reddito videos.  While there is a revulsion aspect to the stories, I also get a sense of relief that our family isn't like that.  But when faced with a real-life situation like this, it is not just some method of entertainment.  This is a real person being messed up by real people who are messed up themselves.  Still, I'm glad my family isn't like that.

Because of how she was raised, she has some emotional/psychological baggage.  She's basically a good kid.  But she has some self-destructive behaviors.  They aren't in the "evil" category.  But they are making us raise eyebrows at a few things.  She is a compulsive eater, and shopper.  And we've tried to encourage her to change these behaviors.  We've had some impact.  But it is a process.  It takes time to overcome such habits. We've gotten her to stop certain other behaviors.  And she does feel some mild heartache over that.  But she's making an effort to make changes.

The reason I'm even considering this is that if you take away just a few idiosyncrasies and the compulsions, she actually fits right into our family.  It's kinda funny that she's the same age (four months older) as our son who is currently on a mission.  And this is the son that we say (facetiously) should have been a girl because of the boy-girl-boy pattern of the rest of our kids.  So, if we substituted her for him, we'd have a perfect pattern.

Anyway, it is still a consideration.  But right now it is weighing further to the side of "no formal / legal / temple changes".  From a personal and social position, we call her our foster daughter and we treat her like a member of the family.  We'll see how things go as we continue.

[MarginOfError]

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

...... all the stuff you said....

First and foremost, let me state my profound gratitude that you would take her in. Children who grow up in abusive homes almost never fully heal, but their lives are immeasurably better when someone can help them escape the patterns they learned from being abused.

And that's all I'll say. Because while this has some fascinating contours as an academic discussion, I don't want to run down that route if you might still be in any phase of emotional processing. I'm not emotionally deft enough to not say something that would come out weird, and you don't need me debating the finer points of sealing theory when you're living through some pretty hefty upheavals. In other words, it isn't that I don't care, but I like to think I care enough not to open my big mouth.

Quote

The mother re-married to a man who is not overtly abusive.  But he does things that just aren't right.  I wouldn't call it "emotionally abusive" behavior (my non-professional assessment).  Perhaps it is "emotional blackmail" -- and that may be too strong.  But I can't think of a more accurate term.  

I'd probably go with "emotionally manipulative." I still classify that under the umbrella of abuse, though less offensive than outright emotional sabotage.

[Carborendum]

22 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

First and foremost, let me state my profound gratitude that you would take her in. Children who grow up in abusive homes almost never fully heal, but their lives are immeasurably better when someone can help them escape the patterns they learned from being abused.

That is very kind of you to say.  I am sincerely grateful to hear such words.  Thank you.

22 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

And that's all I'll say. Because while this has some fascinating contours as an academic discussion, I don't want to run down that route if you might still be in any phase of emotional processing. I'm not emotionally deft enough to not say something that would come out weird, and you don't need me debating the finer points of sealing theory when you're living through some pretty hefty upheavals. In other words, it isn't that I don't care, but I like to think I care enough not to open my big mouth.

LoL.  I think I know exactly what you mean.  I've been thinking about the same finer points.  I appreciate your discretion on the matter.

22 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

I'd probably go with "emotionally manipulative." I still classify that under the umbrella of abuse, though less offensive than outright emotional sabotage.

YES.  That's exactly what I'd call it.  That's absolutely correct.

[zil2]

5 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

That is very kind of you to say.  I am sincerely grateful to hear such words.  Thank you.

Dude, we're all thinking the same thing.  You and your wife are saints for taking this girl in and showing her that there are better ways.  God is surely blessing your efforts.

[classylady]

No matter what decisions will be made as towards adoption, I’m sure you and your family are a positive influence in her life. With your family, she is perhaps experiencing for the first time, what a functional family is like.

Sometimes, doing the right thing, the Christ-like thing, isn’t the easiest way to go. There are times when we help others, it feels like it backfires on us. That is sort of what happened to my son when he and his wife took in the daughter of a friend of theirs. They fostered her for about a year. She was 14 at the time and really had some self-destructive issues. She influenced their own 15 year-old daughter to start some self-destructive habits, such as self-cutting, and put a lot of doubts in her head about the church, or any religion. Their daughter is now 19, and is now totally inactive. I don’t put all the blame on the foster daughter, but she didn’t help the situation. Anyway, I don’t mean to be a Debbie-downer, but just be prayerful in all your decisions and follow the spirit as it leads you, which knowing you, you are already doing. I hope this becomes a positive experience for you and your family. 

[Carborendum]

7 hours ago, classylady said:

No matter what decisions will be made as towards adoption, I’m sure you and your family are a positive influence in her life.

Thanks, I appreciate that.

7 hours ago, classylady said:

With your family, she is perhaps experiencing for the first time, what a functional family is like.

I hear you.  Some interesting things happening elsewhere.

My wife has received some really interesting news from our extended family.  Big family -- she's 4th of 7 children.  A WHOLE BUNCH OF BAD STUFF is happening. 

Some dysfunctionality that we were already aware of getting worse.  Some disfunction that we were NOT aware of.  Some trials that come to all.  And even righteous living is not a complete immunization from all "bad things."  They have their trials to teach and help them grow, just as all of us do.

When my wife informed me of all this, I felt heartbroken.  Her family is one of those families that you have to wonder "why does all this crap keep happening to them?"  They do so many things right.  And in so many ways, they are simply model families.   They're all the types of homes that everyone trusts with their children going over to play with them.  But by the grace of God, they've been blessed with relief from some of it.  The rest of it... they're coping.

Since most of the family lives in the same state, they tend to keep in contact.  But living a 16 hr drive away, we don't necessarily get filled in on all the details.  And we haven't visited physically in several years.  We're heading there the weekend before Christmas.

When we spoke about this to a couple of our kids, I couldn't help but express to them "Be thankful for having a normal life with a normal family.  Maybe it's boring at times.  But looking at all this stuff that has happened to people so close to us, sometimes boring is good.  But be sure to include them in your prayers."

One possible good thing to come of this is that her SIL is proposing that we could let her daughter (who is the same age as, and very close to, one of our daughters) come live with us.  There are various conditions that make this a decent idea for both our households.  Neither household is dead set on it. But we're discussing it.  If it is a go, she could be driving back with us from vacation.

Our home will be completely full by then.  If we take any more, Empress will have to give up her sewing room... or I'll have to give up my office.

BTW, I'm being courted by a couple of companies that are offering me a position that may entice me to give up my consulting business and go to work for them full-time.  I'll really need some divine guidance on that decision.

If that happens, I could give up my office.  We'll see how that pans out. 

Edited December 17, 2023 by Carborendum