Anniversary of Pearl Harbor: 7 December 1941

[Vort]

27 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Hardly anyone I've met that had a first-hand experience in WWII was negatively affected in some way.

Not sure if you meant what you typed or the opposite. I'm thinking you meant the opposite.

My mother-in-law is from Alsace, between France and Germany. (It's part of France, but on the border of Germany.) The Alsatian language is a German dialect, but the people strongly consider themselves French and definitely not German. My mother-in-law was a girl, maybe six, when the Nazis invaded France. Her older sister, my wife's aunt "Tata", was kidnapped and unspeakably abused by the Germans, and spent the rest of her life unmarried and unable to conceive children (and mostly unable to form intimate attachments, especially with men). My  mother-in-law was not kidnapped, but was forced to participate in the Hitler Youth. Her father was made to serve the military, though I don't remember in what capacity. It was a five-year-long living nightmare.

My mother-in-law is currently in her final months or weeks, and looking back on her life, she was very seriously negatively affected by her experiences. They changed her life and the lives of her parents and (especially) sister very much for the worse. Those evils live on in the lives of her children, especially of my wife's older sister (who died suddenly a week ago) and of her daughters. It is easy, and largely correct, to comment on how evil many of the Allied soldiers and governments were, participating in war profiteering and positioning themselves for power positions and payouts after defeating Germany. But it is very difficult to overstate the evils of Naziism to those involved.

Though to be fair, my mother-in-law often noted that many of the German soldiers were kind to her, even solicitous. But not the SS or the officers.

[zil2]

36 minutes ago, Vort said:

who died suddenly a week ago

My sympathies to your wife, you, and the rest of her family.   Bad enough to lose someone to old age, but suddenly and / or unexpectedly makes it so much worse.

[NeuroTypical]

1 hour ago, Vort said:

Though to be fair, my mother-in-law often noted that many of the German soldiers were kind to her, even solicitous. But not the SS or the officers.

My dad raised me with WWII stories, which grew increasingly detailed when I turned 18, and then again when I turned 21.  He fought in the Battle of the Bulge, pushed the German forces across Belgium into Germany, and he was a part of the Allied occupation forces in Germany.   His stories had three main themes:

- The War was mainly about being wet and cold, marching on sore feet with dysentery, and occasional bouts of being shelled which caused you to throw yourself to the ground and have your foxhole half dug before you landed.

- The average German infantryman was just like my dad - some poor schmoe who had to serve his country, and was trying his best to make it home alive.  The Germans got the snot beat out of them, and were pitiable, and were going to have a very hard time surviving the winter.  The end of the war and Hitler's death made every German as happy as my dad was, with no shortage of hugging and laughing and crying and happiness shared between Axis and Allied troops.  Dad bore absolutely no anymosity towards the German military, or the German people.  But the SS was different - they were monsters that only looked like men.  Nothing human about them.  

- Army recruiters and "rear echelon SOBs" were only slightly better than the SS, but not much.   The recruiters lied through their lying teeth every time they spoke, and the people who kept America's frontline troops supplied were thieves who took all the good stuff for themselves, but made sure my Dad always had plenty of ammo.

His overwhelming purpose, and the purpose that drove his entire generation it seemed, was to preserve and pass on the terrible knowledge we learned in WWII.  That knowledge was "It can happen again.  If it can happen in Germany, it can happen anywhere."

[CV75]

15 hours ago, Vort said:

Not sure if you meant what you typed or the opposite. I'm thinking you meant the opposite.

My mother-in-law is from Alsace, between France and Germany. (It's part of France, but on the border of Germany.) The Alsatian language is a German dialect, but the people strongly consider themselves French and definitely not German. My mother-in-law was a girl, maybe six, when the Nazis invaded France. Her older sister, my wife's aunt "Tata", was kidnapped and unspeakably abused by the Germans, and spent the rest of her life unmarried and unable to conceive children (and mostly unable to form intimate attachments, especially with men). My  mother-in-law was not kidnapped, but was forced to participate in the Hitler Youth. Her father was made to serve the military, though I don't remember in what capacity. It was a five-year-long living nightmare.

My mother-in-law is currently in her final months or weeks, and looking back on her life, she was very seriously negatively affected by her experiences. They changed her life and the lives of her parents and (especially) sister very much for the worse. Those evils live on in the lives of her children, especially of my wife's older sister (who died suddenly a week ago) and of her daughters. It is easy, and largely correct, to comment on how evil many of the Allied soldiers and governments were, participating in war profiteering and positioning themselves for power positions and payouts after defeating Germany. But it is very difficult to overstate the evils of Naziism to those involved.

Though to be fair, my mother-in-law often noted that many of the German soldiers were kind to her, even solicitous. But not the SS or the officers.

Yes, I meant the opposite, and these are good examples of what I am talking about. 

[Ironhold]

21 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

- The average German infantryman was just like my dad - some poor schmoe who had to serve his country, and was trying his best to make it home alive.  The Germans got the snot beat out of them, and were pitiable, and were going to have a very hard time surviving the winter.  The end of the war and Hitler's death made every German as happy as my dad was, with no shortage of hugging and laughing and crying and happiness shared between Axis and Allied troops.  Dad bore absolutely no anymosity towards the German military, or the German people.  But the SS was different - they were monsters that only looked like men.  Nothing human about them.  

Something a lot of people don't understand is the practice of conscription, wherein governments tell their citizens "you will go fight in this war or you will be punished". 

Several nations, like South Korea and Israel, still have mandatory conscription, in which some segments of the population are obligated to serve a minimum period unless the qualify for some exception. 

Other nations, like the United States, still require some segment of the populace to register in case the need arises for conscription to return. 

This process means that both then and now many people who fought and died never wanted to be there and had no other choice but to be there. 

This is so hard for so many people to comprehend that a lot of folks freak out when you bring this up because they think you're trying to argue in support of whatever group they're attempting to villainize. I've actually been blocked by controversial online figure Movie Bob because of this.