Intolerance on the social left

[prisonchaplain]

I hate these kinds of stories, because playing the victim is not a high road for Christians to take, when we want to influence the marketplace with righteous ideals. However, in a country that is 85% self-proclaimed Christian, it is disturbing that religiously conservative social views are increasingly being ostracized as beyond civil discussion. Case in point:

Eastside News | Mt. Si High apologizes to MLK Day guest | Seattle Times Newspaper

1. Rev. Ken Hutcherson, an African-American minister in the greater Seattle area, was invited to speak at a Martin Luther King student assembly at a local high school. His daughter attends there, and the gathering was student-organized, administration-approved.

2. As he began his speach one of THE TEACHERS began booing him.

3. Nevertheless, he spoke for about 30 minutes, stressing his own struggle growing up in the segregated south.

4. Afterwards, another teacher screamed from the bleachers asking how he could speak about equal rights, when he was opposed to homosexual rights.

5. The school principle admits that had a student caused these disruptions, discipline would have been swift and sure. He is "in a fact-finding mode." He issued an apology to Rev. Hutcherson, but also indicated the school would revisit how it goes about selecting speakers.

6. Rev. Hutcherson is indeed an activist, opposed to government-endorsement of homosexual behavior. However, he insists that his relationship with the school has been that of a parent, and he has intentionally kept a low-profile about his ministry and activism.

7. He is now angered that his daughter was embarrassed by school staff, with a very tepid response from administration--other than to question whether he should have been invited in the first place.

QUESTIONS:

IS THE VIEW THAT HOMOSEXUAL BEHAVIOR IS IMMORAL AND NOT DESERVING OF LEGAL PROTECTIONS EQUIVALENT TO RACIAL MINORITIES BEYOND THE PALE?

ARE AN INDIVIDUAL'S PERSONAL POLITICAL VIEWS ABOUT SOCIAL ISSUES GROUNDS FOR BLACK-LISTING BY GOVERNMENT AGENCIES?

[WANDERER]

Duty of care: as a teacher I would think that you would have enough capacity to be caring of every child regardless of their parent's political and religious views. Secondly: the modelled behaviour of that teacher (heckling) is inappropriate for a classroom but one can imagine social justice will come into play from the students after observing such behaviour and by parents and the community. IMO the staff were out of line. Do homosexual minors need to be protected - well whether you think homesexuality is moral or immoral that's still your duty of care. Was the speaker inappropriate for that setting? Did the Principal consult with his staff? Did the students express anxiety to the staff? Was there a trigger: something that was said by the speaker during his speech, a recent case of teenage suicide within the school...too many unknown quantities.

[FrankJL]

Is this guy the same "Hutch" that is on Limbaugh's show every so often to do football game picks?

Sounds like it...if I recall right he's an ex-NFL linebacker turned baptist minister, right?

[prisonchaplain]

Was the speaker inappropriate for that setting?

Why would an African-American who experienced the segregated south, and came to speak directly to that issue, be inappropriate?

Did the Principal consult with his staff?

What if he had? And what if the teacher in question had said, "I don't want him. He's a homphobic bigot, and an anti-gay activist!" Should be principal have black-balled the speaker? IMHO, that's outrageous. Yet, I believe that is where this is headed.

Did the students express anxiety to the staff? Was there a trigger: something that was said by the speaker during his speech, a recent case of teenage suicide within the school...too many unknown quantities.

No, no, no & no. The heckler-teacher is a member of the Gay & Straight Alliance, and opposed Hutcherson because of his political activism. A TEACHER disrupted a student organized Martin Luther King Assembly, and embarrassed the student leaders, and a guest who came to speak about civil rights and MLK--not homosexual politics.

This school is located on the Eastside of greater Seattle--an upper middle class area that is moderate to conservative in economics, and very liberal on social issues.

Mind you, on the southside we have a school superintendent who sees no difference between Al Qaida and the Christian Coalition. Moral equivalents.

[prisonchaplain]

Is this guy the same "Hutch" that is on Limbaugh's show every so often to do football game picks?

Sounds like it...if I recall right he's an ex-NFL linebacker turned baptist minister, right?

BINGO! Rush & the Hutch Make Their Picks

[WANDERER]

The teacher (s) should be disciplined. It's unprofessional.

Edit...I accidentally clicked something and it published.

Consulting with your staff: well you would think that issues and discussion would be better sorted out there and then and a reminder of professional standards given and any issues or concerns on individual students welfare would be discussed. It would be the smart thing to do. There is due process: if an entire staff objects, there's the parent governing body and the student council...just concerned about how the situation was managed in the first place.

[prisonchaplain]

The teacher should be disciplined.

If the teacher gets discipline she becomes a martyr. But, yes, let her be one. Some small sanction. A few days of Leave Without Pay should do the trick.

Mr. Hutcherson is asking to be invited to a forum, so that he can discuss his views in a Q&A setting. Based upon the letter Principal Taylor put out, I doubt that will happen. "Apologies were extended to Mr. Hutcherson AND WE WILL BE REVIEWING OUR POLICIES AS TO HOW WE SELECT SPEAKERS."

IMHO, the teacher-heckler won. She single-handedly managed to communicate to students that if you have the right politics you can say and do as you please. If your politics are wrong, you can be treated with disdain, and then black-balled for your trouble. Worse yet--if your politics are wrong, your child can be publically humiliated at the hands of her mentors, with the only repercussion being, "Gee...we're sorry we invited someone like your father to come here...how embarrassing!!!"

It's okay though. Because, by definition, only religious conservatives are intolerant.

[a-train]

It is obviously up to the school to determine what to do about the teacher within their jurisdiction and they should be allowed to do whatever they wish, but the Constitution gives her freedom of speech and protects her from government jurisdiction in the matter.

This whole mess only demonstrates the real problem of government involvement in marriage and/or morality. We need to get the government out of the equation.

Now I understand that our marriage laws offer equal treatment. My concern is whether any treatment is necessary. If our only reason for legislative action is the implementation of morality, then we need not look to deeply through history to see the futility of the excercise. And if we are Christians we know from Jesus that morality can only come from the heart of the willing anyway. Plus, if we are Mormons we know that social or governmental enforcement of morality is not the plan of God, but the desire of the Devil.

-a-train

[prisonchaplain]

It is obviously up to the school to determine what to do about the teacher within their jurisdiction and they should be allowed to do whatever they wish, but the Constitution gives her freedom of speech and protects her from government jurisdiction in the matter.

What are you talking about? The teacher is a public employee. She was on the taxpayer's dime. The school has rules about conduct during assemblies. Heckling and booing are specifically prohibited. Had the perpetrator been a student, the principal was quick to say, reprimand would have been swift and certain. This is absolutely not about the heckler's freedom of speech. Ironically, it's about the speakers--and those on his side of this particular issue.

The reason the principal cannot act quickly, imho, is that the teacher is a unionized government employee. He also fears reaction from the gay community. He may be sympathetic to the teacher's viewpoint, also.

This whole mess only demonstrates the real problem of government involvement in marriage and/or morality. We need to get the government out of the equation.

Most governments offer marriage licenses. I do not see why a minority of individuals who engage in a particular behavior, should impact that practice.

[selek]

It is obviously up to the school to determine what to do about the teacher within their jurisdiction and they should be allowed to do whatever they wish, but the Constitution gives her freedom of speech and protects her from government jurisdiction in the matter.

The Constitution protects her private opinions and expression as a private citizen. It offers no protection for her behavior on the clock and in her capacity as a public school employee.

You can bet your bottom dollar that had she been behaving this way in condemning homosexual behavior, they'd have already reprimanded her and would be warming up the tar and readying the feathers.

PrisonChaplain is right on the money- she has the "fashionable" politics, so her intolerant behavior will be swept under the rug.

[Hutch]

I hate these kinds of stories, because playing the victim is not a high road for Christians to take, when we want to influence the marketplace with righteous ideals. However, in a country that is 85% self-proclaimed Christian, it is disturbing that religiously conservative social views are increasingly being ostracized as beyond civil discussion. Case in point:

Eastside News | Mt. Si High apologizes to MLK Day guest | Seattle Times Newspaper

1. Rev. Ken Hutcherson, an African-American minister in the greater Seattle area, was invited to speak at a Martin Luther King student assembly at a local high school. His daughter attends there, and the gathering was student-organized, administration-approved.

2. As he began his speach one of THE TEACHERS began booing him.

3. Nevertheless, he spoke for about 30 minutes, stressing his own struggle growing up in the segregated south.

4. Afterwards, another teacher screamed from the bleachers asking how he could speak about equal rights, when he was opposed to homosexual rights.

5. The school principle admits that had a student caused these disruptions, discipline would have been swift and sure. He is "in a fact-finding mode." He issued an apology to Rev. Hutcherson, but also indicated the school would revisit how it goes about selecting speakers.

6. Rev. Hutcherson is indeed an activist, opposed to government-endorsement of homosexual behavior. However, he insists that his relationship with the school has been that of a parent, and he has intentionally kept a low-profile about his ministry and activism.

7. He is now angered that his daughter was embarrassed by school staff, with a very tepid response from administration--other than to question whether he should have been invited in the first place.

QUESTIONS:

IS THE VIEW THAT HOMOSEXUAL BEHAVIOR IS IMMORAL AND NOT DESERVING OF LEGAL PROTECTIONS EQUIVALENT TO RACIAL MINORITIES BEYOND THE PALE?

ARE AN INDIVIDUAL'S PERSONAL POLITICAL VIEWS ABOUT SOCIAL ISSUES GROUNDS FOR BLACK-LISTING BY GOVERNMENT AGENCIES?

I am the Hutch on the Rush Limbaugh show and the issue is a great one out here. I am

here to tell you we had better work together or we will lose our rights separately.

The Hutch!!!

[Hutch]

Yes I am the Hutch on the Rush Limbaugh show. I cannot believe that anyone would believe

that a parent, as I am, being introduced by your daugther at her school as "this is my Dad"

and have her teachers boo him, would not be furious. I am tired of us not standing together

and losing our biblical rights separately. My kids will be protected and I am the first line of

defense and I know football my friends.

The Hutch!!!

[Heather]

PrisonChaplain - Thanks for posting this article. I can't believe that no one said anything to the teacher. What a mockery these teachers have made of themselves and their causes. Everyday I talk with people whose views I disagree with. How much progress can be made by such acts of childishness? Where is the respect for those who paved the way for all civil liberties?

Okay, fine, they may not like Rev. Hutcherson, but shame on them for insulting his important message. I wouldn't want my child taught by teachers who are capable of such inappropriate behavior and result to immature acts of disagreement. What a terrible example those teachers have set for the youth in their school. This situation could've turned out positively if the teachers who had issues had taken them up with the Principle afterwards, and simply asked for an assembly with speakers who talked about other civil liberties.

Rev. Hutch, welcome to the site. Thanks for taking the time to comment on this thread. I for one am very interested in your personal input in all of this.

[Traveler]

Yes I am the Hutch on the Rush Limbaugh show. I cannot believe that anyone would believe

that a parent, as I am, being introduced by your daugther at her school as "this is my Dad"

and have her teachers boo him, would not be furious. I am tired of us not standing together

and losing our biblical rights separately. My kids will be protected and I am the first line of

defense and I know football my friends.

The Hutch!!!

For several years I have attempted to have open discussions about homosexuality. I admit that I have biased views. But it seems to me that by the logic of definition that a view is biased. I am not the type that demonizes homosexuality (there are homosexuals in my social circles and we get along fine). But I do feel that beneficial concepts are deliberately removed from the discussion.

There are problems with social supports of homosexuality. Heterosexuality must be supported by society for a human population to exist beyond the current generation. To claim that homosexuality deserves the same support as heterosexuality makes no sense to me. Though mankind cannot exist without heterosexuality it can exist without homosexuality. One is a social necessity the other is not. If homosexuality is to be as socially supported as heterosexuality it must be as socially needed or the appeals must rely on something other than logic and this is where I take strong opposition to the arguments that lack logic and seem to appeal more to lack of real social concerns.

Demonizing anyone that questions a concept makes me very suspicious. There can be no open discussion when one side is trying to prevent the other from speaking. If we are unwilling to hear the concerns of others then we cannot expect that others hear our concerns.

The Traveler

[CrimsonKairos]

All of the liberal activists who thrust forth the concept of "tolerance" as the banner of their "just cause" don't really want tolerance: they want tolerance for themselves and intolerance for any who oppose them.

I despise hypocrisy and double-standards.

I think it was a disgrace the way the Rev. Hutcherson was treated in a public school. Then again, I think public schools are a joke. Charter and private schools are far superior despite the government's inability to realize this. Then again, maybe they do...after all, how many U.S. senators send their kids to public schools?

[Traveler]

All of the liberal activists who thrust forth the concept of "tolerance" as the banner of their "just cause" don't really want tolerance: they want tolerance for themselves and intolerance for any who oppose them.

I despise hypocrisy and double-standards.

I think it was a disgrace the way the Rev. Hutcherson was treated in a public school. Then again, I think public schools are a joke. Charter and private schools are far superior despite the government's inability to realize this. Then again, maybe they do...after all, how many U.S. senators send their kids to public schools?

Thank you for your post - and I agree

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

We have a solid Christian school not too far from us. I'd love to send my girls there. It costs about 70% of what local schools get, per child. But alas, $16,500 per year for three children is a bit out of our range.

Fortunately, we've not had any struggles with our schools yet. It might help that 3 of our 5 school board directors are LDS. :-)

[Elphaba]

I hate these kinds of stories, because playing the victim is not a high road for Christians to take, when we want to influence the marketplace with righteous ideals. However, in a country that is 85% self-proclaimed Christian, it is disturbing that religiously conservative social views are increasingly being ostracized as beyond civil discussion. Case in point:

Eastside News | Mt. Si High apologizes to MLK Day guest | Seattle Times Newspaper

1. Rev. Ken Hutcherson, an African-American minister in the greater Seattle area, was invited to speak at a Martin Luther King student assembly at a local high school. His daughter attends there, and the gathering was student-organized, administration-approved.

2. As he began his speach one of THE TEACHERS began booing him.

3. Nevertheless, he spoke for about 30 minutes, stressing his own struggle growing up in the segregated south.

4. Afterwards, another teacher screamed from the bleachers asking how he could speak about equal rights, when he was opposed to homosexual rights.

5. The school principle admits that had a student caused these disruptions, discipline would have been swift and sure. He is "in a fact-finding mode." He issued an apology to Rev. Hutcherson, but also indicated the school would revisit how it goes about selecting speakers.

6. Rev. Hutcherson is indeed an activist, opposed to government-endorsement of homosexual behavior. However, he insists that his relationship with the school has been that of a parent, and he has intentionally kept a low-profile about his ministry and activism.

7. He is now angered that his daughter was embarrassed by school staff, with a very tepid response from administration--other than to question whether he should have been invited in the first place.

QUESTIONS:

IS THE VIEW THAT HOMOSEXUAL BEHAVIOR IS IMMORAL AND NOT DESERVING OF LEGAL PROTECTIONS EQUIVALENT TO RACIAL MINORITIES BEYOND THE PALE?

Absolutely not. What is beyond the pale is the assumption that good, decent human beings do not deserve the same protections as ANY OTHER PERSON ON THE PLANET just because their sexual orientation is homosexual. It boggles my mind that anyone would think worst of someone because he was born with an attraction to men more than women. How is that different than he has dark skin more than white skin?

I think 100 years from now civilizations are going to look back and be astonished that our generations treated gay people with such bigortry, and especially with such violence and even murders. I also think the majority of the populace ignores the problem, purposely, because they deem it a religious issue, just as slave holders did when they "owned" slaves.

ARE AN INDIVIDUAL'S PERSONAL POLITICAL VIEWS ABOUT SOCIAL ISSUES GROUNDS FOR BLACK-LISTING BY GOVERNMENT AGENCIES?

No, they are not. Everyone is entitled to their personal political positions. Where it gets tricky is when person who holds a government position then uses that job to promote a candidate's run for office, any other political issues, etc. That is strictly disallowed by the First Amendmnt.

However, Rev. Hutcherson is not a member of the federal or state government that I could see, so he did not break the rules. And keep in mind, the students are the ones who invited him to speak. It's not as if he were chosen randomly chosen by someone who knew nothing about him.

Addtionally, I think the teachers acted like idiots, and gave the children poor examples of how to act in these types of situations.

In fact, I would question their right to say anything regarding homosexuality, though this is strictly my opinion. They were still representing the shool as a government a opinion. So why were the state-paid teachers allowed to talk, negatively, about the issue at all, because it is a church/state issue, is it not? The only people who are against same-sex issues are religious as far as I am aware. So when they engage Rev. Hutcherson in a disussion, it is a discusion about homosexuality.

Perhaps, however, I am reaching too far.

In my opinion, the teachers are the ones who acted completely out of line, and I believe another assembly is in order explaining this. I also think the students shoud be thanked for their part in their mature handling of the situation.

Elphaba

[a-train]

What is beyond the pale is the assumption that good, decent human beings do not deserve the same protections as ANY OTHER PERSON ON THE PLANET just because their sexual orientation is homosexual.

Oh but they aren't the only ones without protection. With this administration none of us have protection.

You know, many Mormons today don't want to think about it, but the LDS people suffered a great infliction from Washington with marriage laws. Washington was, as usual, acting on its HIGH moral ground. I can't imagine what it must have been like to go to jail for having two wives when prostitution and adultery was perfectly legal.

It would seem that some want the government to tell people what is moral and how to live, but this is only as long as it is THEIR morals and lifestyle. The so-called conservatives who are being led down the path to socialism will wake up one day and wonder what happened to their freedom.

-a-train

[SMG]

I am angered, but not surprised, that a public school teacher would give such a wretched example to her students. That woman can say whatever she wants, WHEN SHE IS NOT ON THE CLOCK. Not only did she give a poor example to children, she smeared the image of the teaching profession.

My two bits, take them, leave them, beat them with a stick.

[prisonchaplain]

Absolutely not. What is beyond the pale is the assumption that good, decent human beings do not deserve the same protections as ANY OTHER PERSON ON THE PLANET just because their sexual orientation is homosexual. It boggles my mind that anyone would think worst of someone because he was born with an attraction to men more than women. How is that different than he has dark skin more than white skin?

To be clear--Rev. Hutcherson said not a word about gay marriage at the assembly. It was all about MLK, and his experience in the segregated south.

But, to your point: Most (not all) religious systems distinguish between being tempted by homosexual attractions, and engaging in homosexual activity. Likewise for heterosexuals. It's okay for me to struggle against lust and adultery--it's not okay for me to submit to those temptations.

And further--the day when homosexual acts are criminalized is largely gone. Most religious activists are not interested in going back to those days. Rather, they (we) simply do not want to see our government christening as marriage the type of relationship that, for most people of faith, is immoral. So...do what you're going to do in the privacy of your bedroom--but do not ask us to honor it.

[a-train]

I think if the kids have half a brain (and most kids these days have a whole one) they'll realize how tactless this heckling was. They will see how to keep themselves from such social blunders. Frankly, this will do more for her opposition than it will for her cause, unless those who are her opposition overplay their side.

-a-train

[prisonchaplain]

I think if the kids have half a brain (and most kids these days have a whole one) they'll realize how tactless this heckling was. They will see how to keep themselves from such social blunders. Frankly, this will do more for her opposition than it will for her cause, unless those who are her opposition overplay their side.

-a-train

The newspapers accounts I read had mixed reactions. If the kids liked the teachers, they sympathized. Additionally, if they were pro-gay rights--and most in the Northwest are, then the tended to side with the teachers.

On the other hand, others did believe the teachers were out of line, and disrespectful to the speaker, and to his daughter--and the organizers of the assembly. This group said that the hecklers overshadowed the real purpose for the assembly in the first place.

Wish I could report 100% agreement, but sad to say, not so.

[Elphaba]

Oh but they aren't the only ones without protection. With this administration none of us have protection.

Since we were talking specifically about same-sex issues that is what I referred to.

But you do not want to get me started on this so-called "administration."

You know, many Mormons today don't want to think about it, but the LDS people suffered a great infliction from Washington with marriage laws. Washington was, as usual, acting on its HIGH moral ground. I can't imagine what it must have been like to go to jail for having two wives when prostitution and adultery was perfectly legal.

I could not agree with you more.

In fact, while I understand some of the reasons why they can't teach the young men and women about the how the people "suffered and great infliction from Washington," I think it is a tragedy the Church cannot. I cannot think of anything that would build their testimony stronger than reading the journals of these men and women, and the hardships they went through in polygamy. Yet every journal I've read, to a one, says Polygamy was commanded by God, and that they believed this to be true, and they would do as God commanded.

You see not only a commitment to the Church, you see a commitment to something far more powerful, that I can't even explain. I think if they could teach the young men and women these stories, you wouldn't see so many of them leaving at such a young age.

It would seem that some want the government to tell people what is moral and how to live, but this is only as long as it is THEIR morals and lifestyle. The so-called conservatives who are being led down the path to socialism will wake up one day and wonder what happened to their freedom.

This administration is so corrupt people have "corruption fatigue." What's next?

Elphaba

[Moksha]

With this administration none of us have protection.

I know what you mean. Let's just hope that Haliburton does not discover oil underneath this forum, or we could be subject to an invasion.