Jamie123 Posted November 22, 2024 Report Posted November 22, 2024 (edited) I'm glad I didn't comment on this earlier because it's amazing how a bit of extra information can change your perspective on things. The lesson is not to jump too quickly on the bandwagon. Allison Pearson is a columnist in The Daily Telegraph - a particularly right wing newspaper in the uk. A few days ago she described how police had come to her house on the morning of Remembrance Sunday (of all days!) to tell her she was under investigation for an "offensive tweet" she had posted a year before. When she asked what the tweet was they refused to say. When she asked who had been offended by it they again refused to say. This quickly led to a media firestorm with much use of the words Kafkaesque and Orwellian and "a chilling effect on free speech". Well, we did eventually learn what it was all about. During the Israeli/Palestinian protests in London, the Met Police had refused to be photographed with pro-Israeli protesters. Allison Pearson had posted a photo of some smiling police officers standing beside some dark skinned individuals, holding up an Islamic-looking flag, with a message that Police had no problem being photographed beside a bunch of "Jew haters". It was quickly pointed out to her that (i) the officers were Manchester police, not Met police, and (ii) the dark skinned people were Pakistanis, and the flag they were holding was the flag of Pakistan. Realising her mistake she quickly deleted the tweet. Even so, I do think prosecuting her for "stirring up racial hatred" would have been an obscene overreaction. It was a stupid mistake, but not done in malice, and she did her best to correct matters. I'm glad that the police have now dropped the investigation - though whether they would have done without the public furore that has accompanied all this is another matter. But this is only half the story. Back during the Covid epidemic, a man called Dave Bradshaw - a scientist working for GSK - went on a bit of a Twitter-rant accusing Allison Pearson of organising a hate campaign against the NHS. Allison Pearson was furious and found out all about Bradshaw and said she would sue him and report him to his employers and get him sacked. Realising that he had probably gone off a bit half-cocked, Bradshaw removed the tweet and apologised to Pearson. Pearson said she didn't care one whit for his apology, and he would be hearing from her lawyers and she would be talking to his CEO. He begged her not to do this, telling her that he was his family's only breadwinner and he had a special needs child to support, and he was feeling suicidal. Did she care? Not a bit of it. Her reply was "You're finished!" I'm pleased to say that she did eventually agree to let the matter drop, but only after making poor Dave Bradshaw grovel in the dirt. Now the same thing (almost) has happened to her, are we really supposed to feel sorry for her? Edited November 22, 2024 by Jamie123 Just_A_Guy 1 Quote
Vort Posted November 22, 2024 Report Posted November 22, 2024 Personality and revenge issues aside, I'm often appalled at European reactions to free speech. (Note: Free speech does not include libelous statements or intentionally rousing a mob riot.) I have heard many Europeans, Brits and Germans in particular, insist that they have free speech, and then immediately start explaining why this or that (e.g. Holocaust denial) isn't really a matter of free speech. I heard a couple of Brits on a YT channel talking about anti-homosexuality ("homophobic" was their word) activists in the US being forcibly silenced. Their response was, "Well, good. That sort of speech is offensive, and no one should be allowed to say it." That was the same time period that I heard an online German apologist say, literally, "We have free speech in Germany. Of course we do. You just can't talk about Hitler or say the Holocaust wasn't real." SMH. The frightening part for us Americans is that there is a sizeable contingent (still a minority, at least for now) that agrees with these ideas about so-called "free" speech. LDSGator, SilentOne, Jamie123 and 3 others 6 Quote
LDSGator Posted November 22, 2024 Report Posted November 22, 2024 5 minutes ago, Vort said: I'm often appalled at European reactions to free speech. Hearing our German exchange student talk about what is and isn’t allowed there is chilling, mirkwood, Vort, Backroads and 2 others 5 Quote
Jamie123 Posted November 22, 2024 Author Report Posted November 22, 2024 I agree with you totally. In the UK we do have better free speech than Germany or Austria, but we won't have it forever if we're not vigilant against this sort of thing. I do think though that if we have free speech it should be for everyone, not just top newspaper columnists. mirkwood, Vort and LDSGator 3 Quote
NeuroTypical Posted November 22, 2024 Report Posted November 22, 2024 Whelp, in China, a recent cultural crackdown had police arresting young folks in costume on Halloween. Getting booked and fingerprinted and scared about being put on a list of problem-people-the-government-would-be-keeping-an-eye-on. So it's nice the UK isn't that bad. I guess. (Just looking for upsides for a Friday_ Vort 1 Quote
Jamie123 Posted November 22, 2024 Author Report Posted November 22, 2024 10 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said: So it's nice the UK isn't that bad. Nor the US - and Trump (for all his faults) is unlikely to let things slide in that department. As for Starmer though.... *shudder* Vort and Backroads 2 Quote
zil2 Posted November 23, 2024 Report Posted November 23, 2024 39 minutes ago, Jamie123 said: Allison Pearson is a columnist in The Daily Telegraph - a particularly right wing newspaper in the uk. A few days ago she described how police had come to her house on the morning of Remembrance Sunday (of all days!) to tell her she was under investigation for an "offensive tweet" she had posted a year before. When she asked what the tweet was they refused to say. When she asked who had been offended by it they again refused to say. This quickly led to a media firestorm with much use of the words Kafkaesque and Orwellian and "a chilling effect on free speech". I've heard that this is becoming common in the UK, to the point where more serious criminals are being let out of jail to make room for the "they said the wrong thing" "criminals". Further, I've heard that people accused of more serious crimes have to wait a long time (in some cases, over a year) to get a court date, while the "they said the wrong thing" "criminals" are getting tried super-fast, including in over-night courts. (Not being there to witness it, I don't know myself. I think it was Douglas Murray who reported some of that, but I forget anymore.) Apparently Canada is well on its way to follow suit. Just_A_Guy 1 Quote
Jamie123 Posted November 23, 2024 Author Report Posted November 23, 2024 4 minutes ago, zil2 said: I've heard that this is becoming common in the UK, to the point where more serious criminals are being let out of jail to make room for the "they said the wrong thing" "criminals". Further, I've heard that people accused of more serious crimes have to wait a long time (in some cases, over a year) to get a court date, while the "they said the wrong thing" "criminals" are getting tried super-fast, including in over-night courts. (Not being there to witness it, I don't know myself. I think it was Douglas Murray who reported some of that, but I forget anymore.) Apparently Canada is well on its way to follow suit. You've heard more or less correct. Career criminals getting picked up in limousines at prison gates, so their places can go to people unlucky enough to have been nabbed by police on the fringes of riots. Since Starmer and his gang took over there's been little else in the media. A lot of people are not happy about it one bit. zil2 1 Quote
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