What is going on in South Korea?

[Traveler]

Could someone that is close to current politics in South Korea please explain what is going on.  Is there a movement there to remove a corrupt president or is the corruption in the parlement – or both?

 

The Traveler

[LDSGator]

hey @Traveler. 

The president declared martial law due to “threats” from North Korea. Without saying what the threats are. 
 

The people and many members of parliament are curious as to what those threats are, and why Yoon Suk Yeol took such a drastic step. So they are angry he restricted their freedoms. 

Edited December 3, 2024 by LDSGator

[LDSGator]

https://www.independent.co.uk/asia/east-asia/what-is-martial-law-south-korea-1980-b2658199.html
 

Hope this helps. 

[NeuroTypical]

I'm not close, but can pass along info from what I've found to be fairly reliable sources.

https://www.wsj.com/world/asia/south-koreas-president-declares-martial-law-citing-threat-of-pro-north-korean-forces-a1fdc738?mod=hp_lead_pos1

Quote

South Korea’s Parliament voted to end martial law, just hours after the country’s president declared the move due to opposition parties that he said had made the nation vulnerable to North Korean “communist forces.”

The early Wednesday morning vote was 190 to 0. To cast their vote, lawmakers scaled fences and encountered armed guards as they entered the country’s National Assembly building in downtown Seoul. Martial law had been declared more than two hours earlier, taking effect at 11 p.m. local time on Tuesday.

Yoon Suk Yeol, a conservative who took office in 2022, accused the opposition party, which controls the country’s National Assembly, of holding South Korea hostage. He cited the rejection of a budget proposal and impeachment cases against South Korea’s top prosecutors as threats to the country’s constitutional order.

“The martial law is aimed at eradicating pro-North Korean forces and to protect the constitutional order of freedom,” the 63-year-old Yoon said.

Yoon’s presidential office didn’t have an immediate comment on the legislative vote ending martial order. After the vote, South Korea’s military said it would uphold martial order until ordered to stop by the president.

 

[LDSGator]

When the vote is 190 to 0-maybe the president should have been more clear about what the treats are instead of just saying “shut up and trust me” 

[LDSGator]

https://nypost.com/2024/12/03/us-news/north-korea-funneled-millions-to-chinese-migrant-for-weapons-and-tried-to-buy-uniforms-for-surprise-attack-against-the-south-feds/?utm_campaign=iphone_nyp&utm_source=pasteboard_app
 

The plot thickens. 

[Carborendum]

2 hours ago, Traveler said:

Could someone that is close to current politics in South Korea please explain what is going on.  Is there a movement there to remove a corrupt president or is the corruption in the parlement – or both?

I'll add the following to NTs post from WSJ.

Pres Yoon campaigned on abolishing the Ministry of Gender Equality and Family.  This ministry was originally established as the Ministry of Social Issues to protect women's rights (which are behind US social changes by about 20 years).  And a bunch of changes in departments...  The Ministry is now pushing what we might call a woke agenda.

For the past two years he's been pushing the conservative agenda.  But the parliament run by the liberal party (DPK) is refusing to make any deals.  Neither side is budging.  So, nothing is getting done.

I had not heard of his claim that the North was going to be affected by the DPK agenda.  I'll have to look into that.

Edited December 3, 2024 by Carborendum

[NeuroTypical]

The US and some others have learned in recent years to wince and recoil at words "gender" and "equality".  But just a quick look at this webpage, and I can't really find anything I'd call "woke", as understood by the US. 

https://www.mogef.go.kr/eng/pc/eng_pc_f001.do

It's full of terms and claims that the US would consider 'traditional'.  Like knowing there are women and men.  Nothing about equity and while I don't know the details, this one page has little of what I'd consider socialism or millennial progressivism.

But I only know what one WSJ article, and one KR web page is showing me.  Other than that, I'm totally ignorant. 

[LDSGator]

3 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

But just a quick look at this webpage, and I can't really find anything I'd call "woke", as understood by the US.

“Woke” is used by the right the same way “bigot” is used by the left.  

[NeuroTypical]

True, but when not used as an insult, it does have a meaning.  Someone 'woke' has learned about (and become convinced of) supposed problems with our nation like systemic racism, the plight of historically marginalized people like LGBT folks, an artificial gender binary enforced by an exclusive patriarchy, unconscious or unexamined biases, white privilege, etc.  (I've learned the lingo, and there are indeed people who use these words and mean them, without a hint of irony or sarcasm.  They're serious.)

I didn't see any of that on the Korean webpage.

Edited December 3, 2024 by NeuroTypical

[Carborendum]

52 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

The US and some others have learned in recent years to wince and recoil at words "gender" and "equality".  But just a quick look at this webpage, and I can't really find anything I'd call "woke", as understood by the US. 

https://www.mogef.go.kr/eng/pc/eng_pc_f001.do

It's full of terms and claims that the US would consider 'traditional'.  Like knowing there are women and men.  Nothing about equity and while I don't know the details, this one page has little of what I'd consider socialism or millennial progressivism.

But I only know what one WSJ article, and one KR web page is showing me.  Other than that, I'm totally ignorant. 

When all they talk about are the generic "protect women's rights", it is very easy to say, "ok.  So, what's wrong with that?"  But there's more to it.

The actions of the movement in ROK includes promoting the trans agenda (on par with about 10 to 15 years ago in the US).  Also remember the 4B movement began over there. 

While a lot simply doesn't translate as Korea is a mono-ethnic state which still tends to respect the elderly, the DEI elements include:

• Women wanting positions even when they are not as qualified. 
• They still refuse to do hard manual labor jobs.
• They have succeeded in the Supreme Court allowing adults to have transgender medical procedures from hormones to full-transition surgery.  
• Now they're pushing for transitioning of children.

They are only about 10 to 15 years behind us in these social ideas.  Maybe less.  But the Ministry of Gender Equality and Family is a big part of pushing it forward.

The link you provided also includes very mild words that we would now call "inclusive language".  And in and of itself is fine.  But we used all those same words 10 to 15 years ago.  Then they changed.

Edited December 3, 2024 by Carborendum

[LDSGator]

33 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

 

True, but when not used as an insult, it does have a meaning.  Someone 'woke' has learned about (and become convinced of) supposed problems with our nation like systemic racism, the plight of historically marginalized people like LGBT folks, an artificial gender binary enforced by an exclusive patriarchy, unconscious or unexamined biases, white privilege, etc.  (I've learned the lingo, and there are indeed people who use these words and mean them, without a hint of irony or sarcasm.  They're serious

 

Yes, all true. 

 

33 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

I didn't see any of that on the Korean webpage.

same. 

[NeuroTypical]

42 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

But there's more to it.

Glad you're here Carb.  Imma stop talking and listen to you about Korea now.

[LDSGator]

 Martial Law has been lifted. Thank God. 

[Carborendum]

Well, I don't feel so bad for not being up-to-date on the North Korea angle.

Here is a Korean correspondent's take (he doesn't know why either).

Journalist explains what led up to S. Korean president declaring martial law | CNN (It seems that I can now get CNN without the paywall.)

Apparently, Yoon just got fed up with the Parliament overriding all his legislation.  And it seems that they just over-rode the declaration of martial law.  After a unanimous vote to overturn, and with immediate public outcry, he has agreed to lift that declaration ... some time soon.

He will likely be asked to step down voluntarily or he will be impeached.

[Vort]

14 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

He will likely be asked to step down voluntarily or he will be impeached.

Does impeachment in Korea necessarily mean a removal from office?

[Carborendum]

1 minute ago, Vort said:

Does impeachment in Korea necessarily mean a removal from office?

I'm not quite up to speed on that constitutional procedure.  I'll have to get back to you.

[Carborendum]

15 minutes ago, Vort said:

Does impeachment in Korea necessarily mean a removal from office?

OK, I got with my Korean bros.  Here's the scoop.

1. The Parliament initiates articles of impeachment.  If directed at the President, the articles must be approved by a majority of Parliament.
2. Then the whole Parliament votes on it.  2/3 is required to officially impeach.
3. The Constitutional Court* of Korea will try the President and choose to convict or not.   If convicted, he is removed from office.

This is really fascinating. I'll have to get with my friend who is living in Korea right now.  I think the time zone difference may make that difficult.

*The Constitutional Court is one of the two high courts of the land (along with the Supreme Court).  The two are both considered the "highest court" but they have different jurisdictions regarding different aspects of the law.  Since impeachment is a Constitutional procedure, the Constitutional Court has jurisdiction in that area.

Edited December 3, 2024 by Carborendum

[Carborendum]

Wow!  My friend in Korea responded.

I asked,"Hey, what's up with your president.  Why did he declare martial law?"

Quote

First, he's not MY president.  But I'm not sure.  I'll get back to you.

It's been a while since we spoke any politics.  So, I forgot that he's pretty liberal.  But that may not matter.  All I've heard about this guy (Yoon) is that he's basically the conservative version of Jimmy Carter.

Edited December 4, 2024 by Carborendum

[JohnsonJones]

14 hours ago, Vort said:

Does impeachment in Korea necessarily mean a removal from office?

As @Carborendum said above, in addition, I hear that many times if they are convicted they also get a trip to Korean Jail/Prison.  Fun times. 

 

Of interest, about half of the past Korean Presidents have gone to Prison. 

[LDSGator]

On 12/4/2024 at 8:20 AM, JohnsonJones said:

Of interest, about half of the past Korean Presidents have gone to Prison. 

On a much smaller scale, there was a time when four consecutive Speakers of the House in Massachusetts got busted for corruption. All are convicted felons now. 

Edited December 5, 2024 by LDSGator