What you said isn't quite right

[the_jason]

When people capitalize words they shouldn't, such as state of Utah, director of Personnel, department of Records, etc.

Then this sentence doesn't make sense. Perhaps you meant to say "When people don't capitalize words they should, such us...."

[WANDERER]

Grammar police.

[NeuroTypical]

11. When people capitalize words they shouldn't, such as state of Utah

Ok, I don't want to make a big deal out of this, but I just got done teaching 1st grade grammar to my homeschooled kid, and now I need to know if I'm doing it right or not.

I've taught her:

Common nouns like tree, weekday, man, state - not capitalized. You can identify a common noun because there's more than one of them.

Proper nouns like Aspen, Wednesday, Daddy, Utah - capitalized. You can identify a proper noun because there is only one of them, or they are a name.

Are there any grammaterians out there that can settle this issue? (If there are - feel free to rap my knuckles with an e-ruler over using the word "grammaterians".)

LM

[NeuroTypical]

Oh - and my daily submission to the thread:

The phrase "a whole nuther". I wish people would think about how dumb it looks when they type it, before they say it. Shouldn't it be "another whole"?

LM

[havejoy]

Am I the only one who is scared to ever post again?

[the_jason]

Grammar police.

Merely trying to clarify. She typed one thing but implied the opposite.

[WANDERER]

Style guides are dependent on location. They vary between publishing houses. Government style guides/business style guides etc are actually there to avoid confusion. You would need to clarify which one was 'official'. Have fun. Personally I like the Harvard style guide for being the most practical.

Learnt is more correct than 'learned' in Australia.

[Elphaba]

I use the present tense when repeating something which is a principle being taught - as in "The Bible says" but use the past tense when repeating a one-off statement.

Although the Bible is an inanimate object, it gives me a good example to illustrate what I mean. And please understand, it's only an example. I am not saying the sentence is written incorrectly as it stands in the Bible. It just works very well for my illustration.

If one were to write the following beatitude, technically it should read: "Jesus said, "'The meek shall inherit the earth.'"

But I would say most of the time people would write: '"Jesus says the meek shall inherit the earth."'

You notice the difference in "said," and "says."

Thus, the sentence using "said" is correct, and "says" is wrong.

However, "says" has become the colloquial usage, so there is really no problem.

But the example does illustrate my point, so I thank you for it.

Elphaba

[Gwen]

Oh - and my daily submission to the thread:

The phrase "a whole nuther". I wish people would think about how dumb it looks when they type it, before they say it. Shouldn't it be "another whole"?

LM

i always thought it was "a whole other" like when making a side comment in the middle of something and then leaving it at that statement "but that's a whole other issue" i tend to use "but anyway" in the same since. lol

i'm sure i hit on most ppl's anoyances, starting with the never using caps. oh well. lol

[WANDERER]

Oxford, Webster and Macquarie (UK, US and Australian) - it is interesting that dictionaries are so polite. The first spelling is the accepted one and the other is the English variation and less acceptable form. Meanings are also given in alternative forms.

[Rebky]

conversation fillers when one runs out of vocabulary to finish a coherent thought

"... and all that stuff." or insecure sentences that for some reason need validation before one can continue: "You know what I mean?"

[Canuck Mormon]

conversation fillers when one runs out of vocabulary to finish a coherent thought

"... and all that stuff." or insecure sentences that for some reason need validation before one can continue: "You know what I mean?"

That reminds me of the Seinfeld episode with "Yadda, Yadda, Yadda"

One thing my wife does if she can't remember what an item is called, she'll call it a "chummy"

"Honey, can you get the chummy from the chummy"

Drive's me nuts.

[Rebky]

yeah... Doohickey!!! what the?!?! Must be a relative of the Chummy! But we use that one. My daughter tells me stories... LOOOOOOOOOOOONG stories that are full of "... ta da da da da da" which is a yadda yadda thing.

[pushka]

Although the Bible is an inanimate object, it gives me a good example to illustrate what I mean. And please understand, it's only an example. I am not saying the sentence is written incorrectly as it stands in the Bible. It just works very well for my illustration.

If one were to write the following beatitude, technically it should read: "Jesus said, "'The meek shall inherit the earth.'"

But I would say most of the time people would write: '"Jesus says the meek shall inherit the earth."'

You notice the difference in "said," and "says."

Thus, the sentence using "said" is correct, and "says" is wrong.

However, "says" has become the colloquial usage, so there is really no problem.

But the example does illustrate my point, so I thank you for it.

Elphaba

Elphie, I think the example Willow mentioned about stating 'The Bible says..' is correct in itself, if we view the Bible as a current document..a living document so to speak, not to be taken as just in the past, but to be ongoing now..however when referring to that which one person in the Bible stated, the correct thing to say is 'Jesus said..'

The_Jason..Elphie was saying that when someone refers to the state of Utah, they should not capitalise the word state but people often do as in..the State of Utah...

One thing I've noticed on here, in this thread even, is people replacing one letter of words such as writing since when they meant sense, and then when they meant than. Maybe those mistakes happen as a result of pronunciations of said words in different countries/states?

[the_jason]

The_Jason..Elphie was saying that when someone refers to the state of Utah, they should not capitalise the word state but people often do as in..the State of Utah...

I'm aware of that now, but she prefaced it by saying Utah shouldn't be capitalized. She said "capitalizing words that shouldn't be capitalized" instead of "not capitalizing words that should be capitalized."

It didn't make sense the way she worded it.

[checkerboy]

Pushka I have no idea when to use then or than, maybe you could enlighten me?

Also I was hoping we could get back to just posting pet peeves and not going off on wild tangents about dictionaries and grammer.

Thanks a bunch.

[the_jason]

Also I was hoping we could get back to just posting pet peeves and not going off on wild tangents about dictionaries and grammer.

Grammar

[Moksha]

When does Utah not get capitalized?

When it hasn't given up polygamy!

[Elphaba]

conversation fillers when one runs out of vocabulary to finish a coherent thought

"... and all that stuff." or insecure sentences that for some reason need validation before one can continue: "You know what I mean?"

Rebky: You reminded me of another one I use, and hate myself when I do: "I guess what I'm thinking is. . . ." I KNOW what I'm thinking. I don't need to dumb it down. grrr.

Elphaba

[pushka]

Pushka I have no idea when to use then or than, maybe you could enlighten me?

Also I was hoping we could get back to just posting pet peeves and not going off on wild tangents about dictionaries and grammer.

Thanks a bunch.

Checker, I'm sorry to have got carried away on the grammar, I was just hoping to clarify what Elphie had originally meant in her post regarding the use of capitals when referring to the state of Utah.

My example of somebody using the word then instead of than is one that I think has been used in this forum, I may be mistaken, it could have been another just as common word that was written/spelt incorrectly due to pronunciation.

As an example, somebody would have written on this forum..'sooner rather then later' instead of 'sooner rather than later', just as somebody said in this thread that they used a word in that 'since' instead of saying they used a word in that 'sense', just one little letter changes the whole word, though nobody usually comments upon it cos everyone knows what the poster meant to say.

You asked for a pet peeve, and I suppose this is one of those things that I note happening on a regular basis on this forum, but I wouldn't point it out whenever somebody does it as that would be rude...hope that suffices for this thread. :)

[Elphaba]

Okay, I’m going to try and go through the thread and resolve the problems my admittedly very poor explanations brought up. You don't need to read the whole thing. I've bolded the name of those I'm replying to.

Also, I don’t mind being called the Grammar Police because I‘m acting like one. I’ve been called the Board Nag before as well, so I don’t mind. I just have a strong background in publishing and so I know most of this by heart. Having said that, I am not perfect, and notice my skills have diminished with the years (especially answering these posts). So if I goof up, feel free to dance on my cyber-grave.

John Doe asked: I always thought that periods go outside the quote when the quote is not the whole sentence. Is that wrong?

John, the period, as well as the comma, is always placed immediately inside the quote marks.

Loudmouth, everything you taught your little one is correct, as long as you are referring to the city of Aspen, and "Daddy" is you. If you’re referring to the trees, they are lower-case aspens, and I know you realize other daddies are lower-case “daddy.” Also, your knuckles have duly been rapped for “grammarian.”

Pushka: Elphie, I think the example Willow <snip> is 'Jesus said..' Okay, let me give a different example.

As Willow pointed out earlier, “Said” is the past tense of “say.” So, if a reporter were interviewing a witness to an accident, she might write: “I jumped when the cars crashed,” said bystander Jane Doe.

Others write with the present tense “says,” and while it sounds okay, technically it is incorrect: “Jane Doe says she jumped when the cars crashed.”

Jason: I'm aware of that now, but she prefaced it by saying Utah shouldn't be capitalized. She said "capitalizing words that shouldn't be capitalized" instead of "not capitalizing words that should be capitalized." It didn't make sense the way she worded it.

I see now how I confused you. You saw “state of Utah” and of course thought I meant the entire state, which IS what it says. I apologize for being so stupid on this one.

Here is the thing. There are two ways to write the phrase: 1) as an adjective, which is written “state of Utah,” and which practically everyone gets wrong, hence one of my pet peeves, and 2) as a proper noun, which is written “State of Utah.“

So it makes perfect sense to me now why you, and others, read it the way you did. My explanation was very clumsy. It’s one of those things where it makes perfect sense to me because I’ve been doing it forever, but didn’t realize no one else knows what I’m talking about. My really serious bad.

Here's how it works. I'll keep using Utah as my example.

1) With the exception of number two outlined below, when referring to a state in writing, it should always be written: "the state of Utah." This is because you are referring to "Utah," not "the state." This means "the state" is an adjective, and therefore it is written in lower case.

2) However, if you are referring to the actual governing body of the state, it should always be written as the “State of Utah," as that is the proper noun for that governing body.

I think I used "director of Personnel" as another example. If the company has no official position title for "Director of Personnel," then it is not a proper noun, and would be worded "director of Personnel." You could even go so far as to write it "director of personnel."

Another one: You live in the city of Augusta, but you work for the City of Augusta (if you actually do work for the City). (I've even seen stylebooks that would have you lowercase that last "City" reference.)

Does this make any sense now?

And Checker, please don’t be too mad at me. As a former writer and editor, all of these ARE the things that bother me. I’m going to stop now, because I love this stuff, but I'm exhausted. But please, please, pretty please…don’t be mad at me?

Elphaba

[sketch26]

'could of' or 'would of' done something or other instead of 'could have' or 'should have'

that there...is just people not knowing how to spell, or inferring spelling from sound...i am sure they mean the contractions, could've or would've which do sound kind of like "could of" or "would of". just a thought :)

[ztodd]

The whole English language doesn't make sense. Too many weird phrases. Can't wait to re-learn or remember the language of heaven.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't try to use our earthly languages to the fullest while we're here. There's also something to be said for using yada yada to fill in the silence sometimes- speaking engages your mind to help you clarify your thoughts, even if it's nonsense talk.

Is it anyone's pet peeve when people leave the subject off a sentence like I've done a couple times here? :)

[Iggy]

"Free agency." According to President Packer, the phrase does not appear in scripture.

It also was not "Free", Christ paid dearly, so that we may avail ourselves of it.

Great Thread, Checker! So glad you started it.

[Iggy]

When did the word "like" replace the word "said" in the English language?

"I'm like 'How are you doing?' and he's like 'Fine. How are you?'"

That is Air Head California Chick language. Like, don't ya know, Like. (tilt head side to side with a blank smiling face)