A Seer Stone for Every Man

[Carborendum]

I had recently shared some revelation I had for the family.  My eldest son took this to heart.  He asked (essentially) "How is it done?"  But he was angry.  He mentioned that he receives revelation, but it is so strained that he can't really make anything of it.  He has no idea what the next step is or what the few blips of revelation even mean.  It's almost like the Lord is teasing him with revelation.  And he is tired of it.  How is he to proceed?

I rememered when I was his age, I went through the same thing.  So, I fully understood.  He asked,"So what changed?"  That was a good question.  I told him that I'd think about that for a while. 

Eventually, I distilled it into four steps:

1. I was studying very hard about interpersonal communications, language, psychology, sociology.  I needed to understand how human beings worked, especially their thoughts.  I wanted to become human.

2. I married the most amazing woman in the world.  Over the years, she has shaped me more than I've shaped her.  And I cannot attribute any of my growth without giving due credit to her influence on me.

3. I have gone through two tests of Abraham.  By that, I mean two trials in my life that nearly destroyed me.  No, it was not just my depression kicking in.  It was something that could have destroyed any conscientious man no matter his emotional make up.

4. I've aged, worked, learned, grown, and built a relationship with my Father in Heaven.

I began realizing there was a secret sprinkled in there.

Quote

Brigham Young once reminisced, “Joseph said there is a [seer] Stone for every person on Earth,” suggesting that seer stones could potentially be available to individuals beyond just the prophet. However, the practicality and necessity of obtaining a personal seer stone are not emphasized as essential doctrines within the church teachings.

I wonder if this was literal, or if it was pointing to something a little more subtle.  I've recently heard a lot of videos on various accounts of Joseph using a seer stone vs the U&T.  There are too many people talking over each other without asking the specific questions that are required to settle the matter.  But the idea that a seer stone is available for every person on earth is a game changer.

I wondered why Joseph didn't do a whole lot spiritually between the First Vision and the visitation of Moroni.  There didn't seem to be any additional revelation, no movement toward establishing a church/organization, no other divine manifestations that we know of.  This really got me to look closely at the timeline in the early days.

Does anyone else find it interesting that Joseph married Emma at around the same time as he received the plates?  This became an important part of some of my thought processes lately. 

I came upon an interesting thought experiment.  Read the following:

Quote

A woman without her man is nothing.

A woman, without her man, is nothing.
A woman: without her, man is nothing.

This was just an exercise in paradigm shifting.  But upon reading that last line, I had to think about how much my wife has influenced me for the better.  She is a daughter of Zion who has agreed to be my Eternal Companion.  She acts as a lens for me to focus through.  She herself often doesn't realize what she's saying.  But when she says certain things to me, I change my paradigm and find inspiration flowing so fast, I have difficulty making sense of it all until I sit and sort it out for a while.

The old saying came to my mind,"Behind every successful man is a strong woman."  There is some sort of magic when I speak with my wife about problems I'm trying to figure out.  She doesn't actually solve the problem.  But she tends to say the right things to get me to "see" things in a different light where I can figure it out.

And when it comes to revelation, I find it flows so much faster and clearer after I've taken counsel from my wife first.

Edited January 13 by Carborendum

[mikbone]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

My eldest son took this to heart.  He asked (essentially) "How is it done?"

Have him read Enos. 

Particularly Enos 1:7 And I said: Lord, how is it done?

I think that it is one of the best questions ever asked.

 

And about the woman and man quote.  We had a friend of the family (Sister in the local ward), that was becoming woke and tried to explain to us that because Eve was created after Adam she was His crowning achievement of perfection.

I gently reminded her that the woman wasn’t his final achievement. It was the family.

I have benefited greatly from the insight and patient support of my wife.  I have also been greatly honed by the interaction with my children.

Edited January 13 by mikbone

[Carborendum]

9 hours ago, mikbone said:

Have him read Enos. 

Particularly Enos 1:7 And I said: Lord, how is it done?

Yes, I purposefully used that phrase to invoke that image.  But the problem is that there is much more detail than that.  My son was way past the simple message "have faith."

That is exactly what people tend to have problems with.  We're given over-arching goals like "develop faith" but have no way of actually doing it. 

One may as well tell a skinny kid, "Hey, you need to bulk up."  And the only advice he gets is to lift weights.  Well, I was told this as a kid.  And I lifted weights.  And, yes, it helped.  But I was still FAAAARRRR away from being as muscled as my associates when they didn't even exercise.  No one told me (as far as building muscle mass) about increasing testosterone (legally), oxygen, muscle isolation, reps v. max lifts, cardio, anabolic muscle state, etc.  It gets much more complicated and becomes quite a process. 

And with faith, there really is no way to cheat (some of my peers took steroids to great effect).

People say: Prayer and scripture study.  I don't know of many kids in their 20s who have prayed and feasted on the scriptures as much as this particular son (except perhaps my daughter also in her 20s).  He knows the scriptures about as well as I do.  Although I can't really keep up with true experts/scholars, I'm considered one of the leading scriptorians of my stake.

I could also tell someone to integrate a trigonometric function.  But does he have any hope of actually doing it?  There are a lot of lead up things he needs to learn before he can do so.

So, what are the steps for developing faith for a kid has gone as far as he can with his current knowledge and understanding?  I found some.  And that was what I was hoping to share.  He has already married a true daughter of Zion.  So, he has a leg up.  Now he just has to do some secular studying about things in the world, on the world, and things round about.  Then he has to prepare himself to pass a test of Abraham (which will surely come).  And then he will need to be seasoned with age and experience.

These are things he can do.  He understands how to do them.

9 hours ago, mikbone said:

I gently reminded her that the woman wasn’t his final achievement. It was the family.

10 hours ago, Carborendum said:

A woman, without her man, is nothing.

A woman: without her, man is nothing.

FTR, I believe BOTH of these statements are true.

Edited January 13 by Carborendum

[mikbone]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

Yes, I purposefully used that phrase to invoke that image.  But the problem is that there is much more detail than that.  My son was way past the simple message "have faith."

It’s still there in the chapter. 

Don’t we suppose that Jacob had previously repeatedly taught Enos the Gospel in detail.  Jacob was a prophet and had seen the Lord face to face.  Enos was a grown man at this point in his life.  

Enos 1:8 And he said unto me: Because of thy faith in Christ, whom thou hast never before heard nor seen. And many years pass away before he shall manifest himself in the flesh; wherefore, go to, thy faith hath made thee whole.

Despite all of Jacob’s teachings, examples, and prayers.  Enos had to learn about Jesus on his own.  There is no testimony by osmosis.

Everyone must have their private wrestle with the Lord.

 

The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph.  What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods  -  Thomas Paine

 

 

[mikbone]

https://video.byui.edu/media/Clayton+M.+Christensen+"Decisions+For+Which+I've+Been+Grateful"/0_tdb0a80p

I found Clayton Christensen’s wrestle inspiring.

[Vort]

13 hours ago, mikbone said:

Have him read Enos. 

Particularly Enos 1:7 And I said: Lord, how is it done?

Apropos of nothing important, I find myself stubbornly refusing to conform to the practice of using a chapter number for scriptural books that contain only a single chapter. In their publication of the standard works, the Church has introduced a standard of always using a chapter number, even for books such as Enos (or Jarom, Omni, Words of Mormon, and Fourth Nephi) that contain only one chapter*. I can see technical, database-ish reasons for doing this. But we do not e.g. enforce grammar rules that exist only to make our data sorts easier. I see no compelling reason not to simply say or write "Enos 7", and to instead insert the entirely superfluous chapter to make "Enos 1:7". If the Church's own style guide makes that demand, then I will follow it as long as I am writing material in behalf of the Church. Otherwise, it's Enos 7 pour moi.

*Please note that this arguably creates a contradiction in terms. A "chapter", by definition, is a division of a given book. If the entire book is "one chapter", then the so-called chapter isn't actually dividing anything.

[Carborendum]

47 minutes ago, Vort said:

Apropos of nothing important, I find myself stubbornly refusing to conform to the practice of using a chapter number for scriptural books that contain only a single chapter. In their publication of the standard works, the Church has introduced a standard of always using a chapter number, even for books such as Enos (or Jarom, Omni, Words of Mormon, and Fourth Nephi) that contain only one chapter*. I can see technical, database-ish reasons for doing this. But we do not e.g. enforce grammar rules that exist only to make our data sorts easier. I see no compelling reason not to simply say or write "Enos 7", and to instead insert the entirely superfluous chapter to make "Enos 1:7". If the Church's own style guide makes that demand, then I will follow it as long as I am writing material in behalf of the Church. Otherwise, it's Enos 7 pour moi.

*Please note that this arguably creates a contradiction in terms. A "chapter", by definition, is a division of a given book. If the entire book is "one chapter", then the so-called chapter isn't actually dividing anything.

Dividing by 1 is a mathematical thing.

But if you are going to simply write Enos 7, might I suggest that you at least add a "v"?  e.g. "Enos v.7"  It might prevent the uninitiated from wondering where the other 6 chapters are.

[Vort]

17 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Dividing by 1 is a mathematical thing.

Indeed. But in the tongues spoken through the ages by human beings, division and unity are opposing ideas (unless you're talking Catholic theology). If you divide something into one piece, you haven't divided it.

[Carborendum]

5 minutes ago, Vort said:

Indeed. But in the tongues spoken through the ages by human beings, division and unity are opposing ideas (unless you're talking Catholic theology). If you divide something into one piece, you haven't divided it.

Oh, there you go again, Vort.  

[zil2]

2 hours ago, Vort said:

Enos 7 pour moi

Wow, the French get 6 extra chapters of Enos!?  Guess I need to learn French...

[Traveler]

I can only speak for myself.  I cannot speak for anything that someone else says they have experienced.  My first spiritual encounter and revelation came when I was 8 years old.  In all my years since I have never encountered anything spiritual that has been contradictory or confusing in relation to any other spiritual experience I have ever had.  All my doubts, misunderstandings, confusion and misdirection have always been of my own fault and making.

I am also keenly aware that there are dark spirits that intend to influence our understanding of just about everything.  Though it seems obvious to me that there are great and unmistakable differences between those spirits of light verses those of darkness, never-the-less some question what I find obvious.  I am unable to explain anything that is spiritual to anyone that cannot distinguish spiritual things for themselves.   I have attempted logic only to discover that logic is often only what someone wants it to be.

I am convinced that if someone wants to believe that it is midnight – I can be standing in the bright light of noon day and they will still declare it midnight while they are squinting and hiding their eyes.

 

The Traveler   

[zil2]

1 hour ago, Traveler said:

I am convinced that if someone wants to believe that it is midnight – I can be standing in the bright light of noon day and they will still declare it midnight while they are squinting and hiding their eyes.

It's always midnight (the midnight hour) somewhere on Earth.

Edited January 13 by zil2

[Vort]

4 minutes ago, zil2 said:

It's always midnight (the midnight hour) somewhere.

Not on the sun. Ha! Gotcha! I'm so clever.

[zil2]

1 hour ago, Vort said:

Not on the sun. Ha! Gotcha! I'm so clever.

Fixed it for meself.

[Vort]

1 hour ago, Vort said:

I'm so clever.

For the record.

[Traveler]

1 hour ago, zil2 said:

It's always midnight (the midnight hour) somewhere.

It does not manner what is going on anywhere else – the critical point concerns what is the circumstance where we are standing.  This discussion somewhat proves my very point.  There are many excuses and diversions.  Truth is simple or difficult all in what we want to make of it.

 

The Traveler   

[Carborendum]

17 minutes ago, Vort said:

But you know what love is.

[Vort]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

But you know what love is.

The Foreigner in me wants to know.

Edited January 14 by Vort