Borders, Trade and International Developments

[Carborendum]

4 hours ago, Traveler said:

Are these legal restrictions?

 

The Traveler

Yes, of course they are.  Why do you ask?

Edited March 14 by Carborendum

[Traveler]

17 hours ago, Phoenix_person said:

Would you want to give two senators to a state with half the population of Green Bay, Wisconsin? 

There are a number of strategic and natural resources in Greenland that by themselves will demand increases in military and industrial presents – this means more people.  But for me that really is not the point.  Greenland is of such critical importance that two senators with direct ties to that territory is essential in governance.

The greatest problem I see with our government is an incredible lack of transparency.   At one point in my life, I volunteered to be a lobbyist (without pay and at my own expense).   With very rare exception, I believe that if the citizens of this country knew what their bureaucrats and elected officials were doing – they would rise up, drag these governments “servants” out into the streets and lynch them.  

The fact that so many professional government types hate Trump is just about the only thing I like about him.   Many realize that our government waist more than it accomplishes.  The most socialistic elected person in our government is Bernie Sanders who is a multi-millionaire.  He did not make that but load of money from his salary, honest compensation or by socialistic principles.  

For the record, I would support anyone that is willing to represent those that elect them with full transparency of what is actually going on.  I think that the larger the population the easier it is to hide what is going on from them.  I could not mind dividing up the states we already have – even to having a upper limit in population for a state.

 

The Traveler

[Traveler]

13 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Yes, of course they are.  Why do you ask?

I do not think that has been historical.  When there was a political advantage - a state was established or vise versa. 

 

The Traveler

[Carborendum]

42 minutes ago, Traveler said:

I do not think that has been historical.

Really, I am fairly certain that when a population drops below replacement rate, the begin passing laws that prevent people from bearing children so they won't ever get back to replacement rate again.

...

OK... So, yeah.  I just looked at the Greenland code.  It took a while to translate from Danish.  Their English version was hard to navigate.  It didn't have a coherent link structure.  But, yes, they do have a law forbidding marriage closer than fourth cousins.  And with their population being so small, they are hurting right now.

It appears that they were behind the transgenic experiments that the Dems were trying to hide.  They are trying to increase their population by interspecies protextation, or prophylaxis, or procreation or something...

Edited March 14 by Carborendum

[LDSGator]

2 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

And with their population being so small, they are hurting right now.

The abortion rate there is one of the highest in the world. It even exceeds live births. 

[Carborendum]

...Should I tell him?...

Edited March 14 by Carborendum

[NeuroTypical]

Am I the only one confused by the last 4 posts in this thread?

 

[LDSGator]

8 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Am I the only one confused by the last 4 posts in this thread?

 

@Carborendum said, “And with their population being so small, they are hurting right now.”

I responded by saying they have one of the highest abortion rates in the world. That’s probably a key factor why their population is so small. If abortions outnumber live births, then you’ll probably have fewer people.  

[Carborendum]

2 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Am I the only one confused by the last 4 posts in this thread?

 

Part of it is that I was joking in my last post about Greenland laws.  I thought that it was ridiculous enough that Traveler would catch on.  But...

Edited March 15 by Carborendum

[NeuroTypical]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

Part of it is that I was joking in my last post about Greenland laws. 

I admit that I had to look up interspecies protextation before I caught on.  

 

 

[Carborendum]

Ukraine-Russia Negotiations are not going well.  Some have described it as trying to negotiate between toddlers.  Trump has his work cut out for him.  He's put a few hard lines in the sand (like no NATO membership for Ukraine).  But beyond such, he's just trying to get the two to have a conversation.

It looks like it is not going to be an overnight success.

[Manners Matter]

"Factually, a civil war was ongoing in Ukraine for well over a decade. NATO exploited that civil war to create a U.S. proxy war against Russia.  Zelenskyy is not negotiating for peace; he’s buying time against what Trump wants to do.

He’s buying time for the EU/UK and corrupt NATO interests to organize a separate funding mechanism for continuation of war. The UK/France have promised to provide the intel service. The EU/UK now need to organize the funding mechanisms. They are doing it currently.

A generally belligerent Volodymyr Zelensky, who will not accept any terms for negotiated peace (so far), continues playing the victim and saying Russia is violating terms needed for peace.   NATO and the EU alliance continue telling Zelensky to keep fighting; Zelensky rejects anything that stops the fighting; NATO and the EU alliance continue demanding that President Trump support Zelensky.  That’s the current cycle.

Putin knows the game, that’s why he is keeping up the offensive action."

[Carborendum]

48 minutes ago, Manners Matter said:

"Factually, a civil war was ongoing in Ukraine for well over a decade.
...
Putin knows the game, that’s why he is keeping up the offensive action."

In that case, it might be a great idea to just pull out completely and let the Europeans and the Asian nations go at it and destroy each other.

America would be the only bastion of peace.  And we could make a KILLING with weapons sales. (see what I did there?)

[NeuroTypical]

58 minutes ago, Manners Matter said:

the EU/UK and corrupt NATO interests to organize a separate funding mechanism for continuation of war. 

I get the sense that everyone on earth with a finger in the war technology pie, is using Ukraine/Russia as a proving ground for their cool modern advancements like drones and electronics and whatnot.  So if you consider that sort of thing to be corrupt, I would say that there are no noncorrupt players on the field, and all of the umpires and coaches, and most of the fans are corrupt too.

 

[Carborendum]

What is the deal with certain members of Congress "threatening" to go to El Salvador for the sake of an El Salvadoran gang member?    I don't get why they're throwing this around like an ultimatum.  If they want to go, then they should go.  No one is going to stop them.

The bottom line is that Trump sent an illegally present El Salvadoran citizen back to his home nation.  And in that nation, he is considered a criminal and is serving his prison sentence.  Why is this something to protest?

Just grandstanding?  To whom?  No one cares.

It's no surprise that "Spartacus" is among the rabble that are raising a ruckus.  Make enough noise to draw attention and they think they are important enough to ignore the fact that people aren't looking at them.  People are rolling their eyes.

Edited April 16 by Carborendum

[NeuroTypical]

17 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

What is the deal with certain members of Congress "threatening" to go to El Salvador for the sake of an El Salvadoran gang member?

Politics 101: When you're not in power, you resist the person in power.  Whatever they're for, you're against.  Your job as elected official is to get re-elected and gain power back, and that requires votes.  Sparking outrage is a way to gain votes, so the Dems are sparkin' away.   Nothing unique to Dems going on here.  It's just that Dems are still reeling from their historic unexpected loss to Trump, still being mostly clueless as to why they lost, are falling back on the habits of all politicians - when in doubt, resist. 

- Don't stand when Trump parades his people in front of the nation during his joint session of congress. 
- Complain about DOGE and stoke fear that old people will stop getting their monthly check.
- Break the filibuster record for no real reason other than to grab a news cycle away from Orange Man.
- Push the notion that OM is growing in authoritarianism and destroying our country by finding the best story you can in opposition of each of OM's agenda items.  When it comes to deporting illegals, the best they can find is [checks notes] MS13 gang member illegally in the nation for a decade, but we've got a photo of him looking friendly with a kid, so we can spin it based on that picture. 

Edited April 16 by NeuroTypical

[Carborendum]

2 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

When you're not in power, you resist the person in power.  Whatever they're for, you're against.  Your job as elected official is to get re-elected and gain power back, and that requires votes.  Sparking outrage is a way to gain votes, so the Dems are sparkin' away.   Nothing unique to Dems going on here.  It's just that Dems are still reeling from their historic unexpected loss to Trump, still being mostly clueless as to why they lost, are falling back on the habits of all politicians - when in doubt, resist. 

Ok.  Two things.  First, from a conservative perspective, I'm thinking "why is going to El Salvador the response from Democrats?"
Second, even from a liberal perspective, "why is going to El Salvador the response from Democrats?"

I really don't understand why "going to El Salvador" is supposed to... uhmmm... do... anything...  How exactly are liberals perceiving this?

Do they really think that these reps will effectuate a release of these gang members?  And when they come home empty-handed... what?.?.?.?  Do they not think far enough ahead to realize that they will basically just be going on a week long vacation?  Oh, they get to go on a vacation on the taxpayer's dime.  Ok.  I get it.

And they get to tell their constituency that they at least "tried."  Oh, the fringe benefits of being a Democrat politician.  Mayor of Los Angeles and all...

2 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

- Push the notion that OM is growing in authoritarianism and destroying our country by finding the best story you can in opposition of each of OM's agenda items.

I have no idea what OM is supposed to stand for.

[NeuroTypical]

21 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

First, from a conservative perspective, I'm thinking "why is going to El Salvador the response from Democrats?"
Second, even from a liberal perspective, "why is going to El Salvador the response from Democrats?"

Cameras and air time.  Push outrage.  That wins votes (allegedly).  Same notion behind this fun one:

 

 

21 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I have no idea what OM is supposed to stand for.

Orange Man.   

Edited April 16 by NeuroTypical

[Carborendum]

Oh, isn't it sweet:

Quote

we won’t stop fighting until he’s home.

 - Chris Van Hollen.

Yeah, we'll see how long that lasts.

[Phoenix_person]

3 hours ago, Carborendum said:

What is the deal with certain members of Congress "threatening" to go to El Salvador for the sake of an El Salvadoran gang member?    I don't get why they're throwing this around like an ultimatum.  If they want to go, then they should go.  No one is going to stop them.

If we're going to potentially send US citizens to this prison, as Trump himself has expressed desire to do, we need full transparency about the place we're sending them to. And yes, it's mostly a dumb photo op, kinda like when GOP politicians from places like Iowa go to Texas to take pictures with border patrol and call on Dems for better border security. And both parties seem to have very selective concern over the Uyghur genocide in China. It's the game of politics and selective outrage, and both parties play it.

BTW, I've looked, and I can't find any documentation of Garcia's prior gang affiliation, aside from a single report from a dirty cop. The only gang ties anyone else has been able to make stem from the fact that he fled El Salvador to escape gang violence. He has no criminal record in either country. He was put through deportation proceedings in 2019 and was allowed to stay. So while it's true that he came here illegally, he was a legal resident for the last 6 years. The Trump administration admitted that he was erroneously detained and deported to a prison with a violent reputation, possibly filled with some of the very people he was fleeing in the first place. 

https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/abrego-garcia-and-ms-13--what-do-we-know

I don't like drug cartels or terrorists. I also don't like when people who preach about "rule of law" and "law and order" disappear people off the street and ship them to ruthless dictators to do the work we're too "noble" to do ourselves. It opens some very dangerous doors, and I doubt very much that it will stop with undocumented immigrants.

 

 

Edited April 16 by Phoenix_person

[Carborendum]

51 minutes ago, Phoenix_person said:

And yes, it's mostly a dumb photo op.

I'm glad we agree.

51 minutes ago, Phoenix_person said:

BTW, I've looked, and I can't find any documentation of Garcia's prior gang affiliation, aside from a single report from a dirty cop.

I'm going to assume you have a source for that?  Every report says it was a confidential informant.  That's not a cop.   So, whoever said it was a cop was probably also lying about it being an unreliable source (i.e. dirty cop).

51 minutes ago, Phoenix_person said:

The only gang ties anyone else has been able to make stem from the fact that he fled El Salvador to escape gang violence.

Well, the immigration court says otherwise.  I'm sure the public doesn't know all the details.  But there was a process that he was sent through.  And it has been the accepted practice for non-citizens for decades.  Only the activist judges seem to disagree.

51 minutes ago, Phoenix_person said:

He was put through deportation proceedings in 2019 and was allowed to stay. So while it's true that he came here illegally, he was a legal resident for the last 6 years.

Yes, he was essentially given asylum.  And quite often, when an asylee does not apply for citizenship, then he is returned to his country of citizenship after the danger for which he applied has passed.  It had.  So, he was sent back.

51 minutes ago, Phoenix_person said:

The Trump administration admitted that he was erroneously detained and deported to a prison with a violent reputation, possibly filled with some of the very people he was fleeing in the first place. 

That's in dispute.

A DOJ lawyer – who has since been relieved of duty, a saboteur, a Democrat – put into a filing incorrectly that this was a mistaken removal. It was not. This was the right person sent to the right place.

-- Stephen Miller. (White House deputy chief of staff for policy)

51 minutes ago, Phoenix_person said:

https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/abrego-garcia-and-ms-13--what-do-we-know

I don't like drug cartels or terrorists. I also don't like when people who preach about "rule of law" and "law and order" disappear people off the street and ship them to ruthless dictators to do the work we're too "noble" to do ourselves. It opens some very dangerous doors, and I doubt very much that it will stop with undocumented immigrants.

Everything Trump has done regarding immigration has been according to the law. 

And it's hard to call Bukele a dictator when he was duly elected. And he's popular enough that he won 85% of the vote for his reelection.

Even so, I understand the "dangerous doors" point you're making.  And I'm wary of it.  But so far, I do not see any lines being crossed that I wouldn't have made myself when dealing with criminals being protected by activist judges.

Edited April 16 by Carborendum

[NeuroTypical]

18 hours ago, Phoenix_person said:

BTW, I've looked, and I can't find any documentation of Garcia's prior gang affiliation, aside from a single report from a dirty cop. The only gang ties anyone else has been able to make stem from the fact that he fled El Salvador to escape gang violence. He has no criminal record in either country. He was put through deportation proceedings in 2019 and was allowed to stay. So while it's true that he came here illegally, he was a legal resident for the last 6 years.

No, no, no, no, no.   You're drinking the koolaid and falling for the disinformation.   Here's your documentation of Garcia's gang affiliation:

https://www.justice.gov/ag/media/1396906/dl?inline&fbclid=IwY2xjawJt82JleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHhBLNqbLfq-ugUUfiRsasSd5239_E0o8U2WKWkN4P5-Ce1EgsvDrMN3YUaw1_aem_9bAn0M_5UuMCmi0SIRTOAg

 

 

Unless you've got some good documentation, I have to say the attempt to smear anyone here as a "dirty cop" is loathsome.  Shame on whoever made the claim to you, and shame on you for passing it along as if it were some sort of concluded fact.

 

His request for asylum was denied.  His request to not be deported was denied.  Here are the court docs:   https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mdd.578815/gov.uscourts.mdd.578815.1.1.pdf

 

His appeal was denied.  https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mdd.578815/gov.uscourts.mdd.578815.11.0.pdf

 

The courts just said that he couldn't be deported to El Salvador.  NOT that he couldn't be deported, NOT that he was granted asylum, NOT that he was granted citizenship.   He was NOT "allowed to stay", and he is NOT now, nor has he ever been, a legal resident.  He is not a "Maryland man", he is an illegal immigrant and MS13 gang member named Chele, running with the Westerns clique, holding the rank of Chequeo in that org.  And in case it's news to anyone, Mara Salvatrucha, aka MS-13, is an international criminal gang that have is designated as a Foreign Terrorist Organization.  They are bad people engaged in bad things, from drug dealing to human trafficking to murder.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-13

@Phoenix_person, I get needing to resist orange man.  I get that Trump steamrollered over a federal judges ruling, and that's unconstitutional and needs to be stopped.   I hope Trump gets smacked down hard enough, and feels enough pain, that he gives up pretending the courts don't have constitutional authority to limit some of the things he's doing.  But democrats peddling falsehoods and pretending evil is good, is not the way to go about it.  I call on you as an honest person who values truth, to bring these links and these facts into greater awareness in your political circles.  Truth is a valuable commodity these days - and your side is spreading lies on this topic like their lives depend on it.

 

 

 

Edited April 17 by NeuroTypical

[Phoenix_person]

28 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

No, no, no, no, no.   You're drinking the koolaid and falling for the disinformation.   Here's your documentation of Garcia's gang affiliation:

https://www.justice.gov/ag/media/1396906/dl?inline&fbclid=IwY2xjawJt82JleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHhBLNqbLfq-ugUUfiRsasSd5239_E0o8U2WKWkN4P5-Ce1EgsvDrMN3YUaw1_aem_9bAn0M_5UuMCmi0SIRTOAg

 

 

Unless you've got some good documentation, I have to say the attempt to smear anyone here as a "dirty cop" is loathsome.  Shame on whoever made the claim to you, and shame on you for passing it along as if it were some sort of concluded fact.

 

His request for asylum was denied.  His request to not be deported was denied.  Here are the court docs:   https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mdd.578815/gov.uscourts.mdd.578815.1.1.pdf

 

His appeal was denied.  https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mdd.578815/gov.uscourts.mdd.578815.11.0.pdf

 

The courts just said that he couldn't be deported to El Salvador.  NOT that he couldn't be deported, NOT that he was granted asylum, NOT that he was granted citizenship.   He was NOT "allowed to stay", and he is NOT now, nor has he ever been, a legal resident.  He is not a "Maryland man", he is an illegal immigrant and MS13 gang member named Chele, running with the Westerns clique, holding the rank of Chequeo in that org.  And in case it's news to anyone, Mara Salvatrucha, aka MS-13, is an international criminal gang that have is designated as a Foreign Terrorist Organization.  They are bad people engaged in bad things, from drug dealing to human trafficking to murder.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-13

@Phoenix_person, I get needing to resist orange man.  I get that Trump steamrollered over a federal judges ruling, and that's unconstitutional and needs to be stopped.   I hope Trump gets smacked down hard enough, and feels enough pain, that he gives up pretending the courts don't have constitutional authority to limit some of the things he's doing.  But democrats peddling falsehoods and pretending evil is good, is not the way to go about it.  I call on you as an honest person who values truth, to bring these links and these facts into greater awareness in your political circles.  Truth is a valuable commodity these days - and your side is spreading lies on this topic like their lives depend on it.

Acknowledging that we violated the ONE agreement we made with him, that he wouldn't be sent back to El Salvador to be tortured and possibly killed, isn't the moral victory you think it is. You're right, I should vet my sources better. But I still believe this man deserved more due process than he received before having his life destroyed. And it doesn't change the fact that a directive from SCOTUS seems to have been ignored. That's really the bigger issue here, because SCOTUS is the one chance we have of keeping Trump from doing things like this to US citizens, should he choose to act on that whim. So if SCOTUS doesn't have any real authority over the executive branch, and no one in the congressional GOP will stand up to their leader, then where is the balance of power that has kept this country from falling into tyranny for the last 250 years? 

[NeuroTypical]

1 minute ago, Phoenix_person said:

And it doesn't change the fact that a directive from SCOTUS seems to have been ignored. That's really the bigger issue here, because SCOTUS is the one chance we have of keeping Trump from doing things like this to US citizens, should he choose to act on that whim. So if SCOTUS doesn't have any real authority over the executive branch, and no one in the congressional GOP will stand up to their leader, then where is the balance of power that has kept this country from falling into tyranny for the last 250 years? 

I agree.  Trump throws stuff at the wall to see what sticks, including blatantly unconstitutional things.   His unconstitutional stuff shouldn't stick.  Separation of powers is crucial to the survival of this nation, and as a good little constitutional conservative, I'm happy to join efforts to preserve it.  

 

[Carborendum]

So, apparently, Garcia is a wife-beater.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wife-deported-maryland-man-abrego-garcia-hit-scratched/story?id=120882240