How Close R The Last Days?

[jjrogers]

hmmm probably not. Although at least you didn't take a piece of it home.

[the Ogre]

For the sake of a good discussion. How many forum members believe that we are indeed in the "Last Days" and that the beginning of the millenium will occur within the next 25 yrs. If so, why?

In and I don't know (my dad thinks 2012, but I don't like putting a date on something even the angels don't know), but I hope soon.

[Abraham]

The 144K will have achieved what each of need to strive for even as Christ did (but of course he achieved it) and that is reach the Terrestrial paradigm in this life. This is where the Savior, as our great exemplar, and you will note a big change, when he then had command over the elements water, bread, health, life, etc. that he did not demonstrate before in the telestial paradigm. It is what Enoch, Moses, and other prophets achieved and especially the two bulls will have achieved in Old Jerusalem during the 'desolation of tribulation". See Book of Revelation That is why I referred to it as translated-type.

Just wanted to clarify - one more thing if you think of our progress (esp those endowed) we do not leap from the Telestial to the Celestial we have to pass through the Terrestrial.

Abraham

[Abraham]

Here comes Planet X.

[Still_Small_Voice]

There has been more of scientific discovery during these years than during all of the previous history of mankind. Transportation, communication, medicine, public hygiene, the unlocking of the atom, the miracle of the computer, with all of its ramifications, have blossomed forth, particularly in our own era. During my own lifetime, I have witnessed miracle after wondrous miracle come to pass. We take it for granted.

I can also second how complex the computer is. I am currently studying to work as a computer technician someday. Think about this. A gigahertz is one billion cycles per second. Many central processing units in more modern computers can run at over two billion cycles per second!

[tiancum]

i haves a pet peeve about the last days stuff.

It really bugs me when someone says something like "NO ONE KNOWS THE HOUR AND THE DAY...."

It's like they are reminding us...um you shouldn't even be talking about this stuff, now please stop guessing. I am not saying it has happened here....

It just really bugs me...i am probably just nuts. HEHE

[Hemidakota]

Only GOD knows the hour but we are given guidelines by the Savior and to follow the prophets.

[Hemidakota]

hmmm probably not. Although at least you didn't take a piece of it home.

I did...I don't think Michael would mine since I hope we are still 'buds'.

[Hemidakota]

The 144K will have achieved what each of need to strive for even as Christ did (but of course he achieved it) and that is reach the Terrestrial paradigm in this life. This is where the Savior, as our great exemplar, and you will note a big change, when he then had command over the elements water, bread, health, life, etc. that he did not demonstrate before in the telestial paradigm. It is what Enoch, Moses, and other prophets achieved and especially the two bulls will have achieved in Old Jerusalem during the 'desolation of tribulation". See Book of Revelation That is why I referred to it as translated-type.

Just wanted to clarify - one more thing if you think of our progress (esp those endowed) we do not leap from the Telestial to the Celestial we have to pass through the Terrestrial.

Abraham

The group will compose of both the living and the dead that will be a special resurrection.

The two prophets [two bulls] as I received back my question [past questioning] from President Kimball, were two apostles of the church.

[Hemidakota]

I can also second how complex the computer is. I am currently studying to work as a computer technician someday. Think about this. A gigahertz is one billion cycles per second. Many central processing units in more modern computers can run at over two billion cycles per second!

We are beyond that since we a TeraBit processor under development [super Computers]. Not only that, we are entering into what is called Organic Computers and Photon Computers. Let see which one will be on the street first.

[Hemidakota]

i haves a pet peeve about the last days stuff.

It really bugs me when someone says something like "NO ONE KNOWS THE HOUR AND THE DAY...."

It's like they are reminding us...um you shouldn't even be talking about this stuff, now please stop guessing. I am not saying it has happened here....

It just really bugs me...i am probably just nuts. HEHE

I do believe it is so. Even the Savior doesn't know of the hour but knows the period or time frame. His army must be prepare and others need to be in the position prior to His coming.

[Guest tomk]

I do believe it is so. Even the Savior doesn't know of the hour but knows the period or time frame. His army must be prepare and others need to be in the position prior to His coming.

<begin speculation block>

Why does the Lord even reference it? Why does He go to the trouble to tell US that "no man" knows the hour or the day?

Stop and think about it for a minute.

I believe the Lord is describing a paradox.

"No man knows" the hour or the day -- becaue it is not (necessarily) "up to the Lord" as far as when He comes again.

In other words, it is not up to Him -- it is up to US!!!!!!

It is not a simple matter of **just** waiting for all the signs and prophecies to be fulfilled.

The most deterministic thing that will bring the Lord to us is our changed hearts ... our conversion to His Gospel, as individuals and then as a society of Saints!!

ZION COMMUNITIES OF "ONE" (OURSELVES)

ZION COMMUNITIES OF SAINTS

This is what will herald the coming of the Lord. It is the one of the principle reasons why the Holy Ghost is given! The Holy Ghost gives us His WORDS and makes us ready (SANTIFICATION). Ready for the reunion. The reunion with Christ, individually, and as a people.

<end speculation block>

[Hemidakota]

Preparation is what I read. President Harold B. Lee remarked the same when he quoted this in his book, "stand in Holy Places'. Also, rhe remarked to be 'steadfast in the gospel.'

Apostle Ballard remarked not long ago when someone quized him on the same subject, "As far as I know, none of my Brethren in the Council of Twelve or even the First Presidency knows.

Even Joseph Smith decalred: "Jesus Christ never did reveal to any man the precise time that He would come. [HOC 6:254]

So in the end, we need to be steadfast in our portion of light [Gospel] and to prepare ourselves for that very hour.

[Hemidakota]

<begin speculation block>

Why does the Lord even reference it? Why does He go to the trouble to tell US that "no man" knows the hour or the day?

Stop and think about it for a minute.

I believe the Lord is describing a paradox.

"No man knows" the hour or the day -- becaue it is not (necessarily) "up to the Lord" as far as when He comes again.

In other words, it is not up to Him -- it is up to US!!!!!!

It is not a simple matter of **just** waiting for all the signs and prophecies to be fulfilled.

The most deterministic thing that will bring the Lord to us is our changed hearts ... our conversion to His Gospel, as individuals and then as a society of Saints!!

ZION COMMUNITIES OF "ONE" (OURSELVES)

ZION COMMUNITIES OF SAINTS

This is what will herald the coming of the Lord. It is the one of the principle reasons why the Holy Ghost is given! The Holy Ghost gives us His WORDS and makes us ready (SANTIFICATION). Ready for the reunion. The reunion with Christ, individually, and as a people.

<end speculation block>

Ok, that was learning curve. I was corrected that the Lord does know. I apologize to Him who does correct us.

I do admit, I was baffled over this since He was resurrected and sits before the FATHER at this very moment. I think the FATHER who has great trust in HIS Son's abilities would acknowledge to HIS Son when to return.

Joseph Smith translation within Mathew and Luke omits the phrase "neither the son". As we are reminded in D&C 93:16-17, Christ know all things; he possesses the fulness of the glory and power of the FATHER, Surely then, He must know when He shall return.

[Guest tomk]

Ok, that was learning curve. I was corrected that the Lord does know. I apologize to Him who does correct us.

I do admit, I was baffled over this since He was resurrected and sits before the FATHER at this very moment. I think the FATHER who has great trust in HIS Son's abilities would acknowledge to HIS Son when to return.

Joseph Smith translation within Mathew and Luke omits the phrase "neither the son". As we are reminded in D&C 93:16-17, Christ know all things; he possesses the fulness of the glory and power of the FATHER, Surely then, He must know when He shall return.

Believe it or not, I actually hadn't thought about that aspect of it!!!!

The Son "must" know!!!!!!!!

If He did not know -- how could He have a fullness of the Father?

And why would such be withheld from the Son?

[bcguy]

The real reason is that though time earth has gone though upheavals. Looks at WWII ? 60 million people killed. I am sure even then that alot thought those were the last days.

Its pretty much impossible to destroy the earth unless we are hit by a astroid that is 100 miles wide.

I think the deline of life will be the result of two factors. The reduction of Petroleum and Food.

As some of you know petroleum is not a renable resource. We as a society are heading to a time of "Peak Oil" were the demand will start to outstrip the supply of Oil. As the demand for Oil peaks, World nations will use substituted fuel from newable resources. Ethenol, Biodiesel are just two examples. One of the downsides of biofuels is thay are grown in such large quantities now thay are displacing human grown food. As you may be seeing in the news the price of grains has really been climbing as a result of these practices. There will be a time where human consumption exceeds current and future food supplies.

Global warming will only exasterbate these issues. Rising tempatures especially near the equator will make havesting nearly impossible as the harvest cannot grown out of normal band of tempatures to grow properly. Those countries will then need to depend on food exports putting even more pressure on the global world supply of exported food.

The church did say to store food for a year. But even that may not be enough when the times get really tough. I say store enough grains and non parashable foods for five years.

I told my wife the people in the city may suffer more then those that live in the country where farms can produce the food needed. Having everything grown locally is the best for global warming. Buying a Orange from China and have it imported to Canada to me is unexcusable. Think of how much petroum was consumed to carry just one orange?

I am going to create another subject that deals with home grown vegtibles so stay tuned :)

[Hemidakota]

If oil is not a renewable resource, then why are the 100-year old wells have to be recapped? If you are right, then blood is not a renewable resource in the body. Just think of the earth as a mortal being. The answer lies within.

Rice is at its limit and Honeybees are scarce thanks to the Chinese import that brought a dreaded virus.

[tiancum]

I do believe it is so. Even the Savior doesn't know of the hour but knows the period or time frame. His army must be prepare and others need to be in the position prior to His coming.

Me too, i know I will never know the hour and the day until that day comes.

I was saying something totally different. when i said it bugged me, it was more a self righteousness thing, people thinking that because we can't know, that it is wrong to guess, and try to force their belief on others.

About the Savior knowing, that is the big debate, many believe he knows.

I tend to fall on the side of him knowing. He and the father are one...He IS the father.

[Guest tomk]

Matt. 24: 36. 36 ¶ But of that aday and bhour knoweth no man, no, not the cangels of heaven, but my Father only.

Matt. 25: 13.

13 aWatch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Mark 13: 32. 32 ¶ But of that aday and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

IN OTHER WORDS, BECAUSE I AM IN THE FATHER AND THE FATHER IN ME, I KNOW THE DAY AND THE HOUR.

neither [WOULD] the Son, but [FOR] the Father.

Rev. 16: 15 (15-16). 15 Behold, I come as a athief. Blessed is he that bwatcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

D&C 133: 11. 11 aWatch, therefore, for ye bknow neither the day nor the hour.

JS-M 1: 40. 40 But of that day, and hour, no one aknoweth; no, not the angels of God in heaven, but my Father only.

My "gut" tells me that the Son knows as well as the Father. Like I said, the "variable" in this equation is our readiness and worthiness.

The Father and Son are ONE in every way imaginable, except for being one substance. They are two distinct Beings of flesh and bone, but one in every other way. For this reason, I believe the Son does know the day and the hour of His coming.

[Carita]

Here is something McConkie wrote:" At the time appointed by the Father, the Son of Man will come in the clouds of heaven. It is an unknown day in the beginning of the seventh thousand years of the earth's temporal continuance.

War, such as has not been known from the beginning of time is in process. All nations are assembled at Armageddon.

All things are in commotion . Never has there been such a day as this. The newspapers of the world, as well as radio and television, speak only of war and calamity adn the dread that hangs like a millstone around every neck....

And the signs in heaven above are like nothing man has ever seen. Blood in everywhere; fire and vapors and smoke fill teh atmospheric heavens. No man has seen a rainbow this year....

And above all are the vexing words of those Mormon Elders! They are everywhere preaching their strange doctrine, saying that the coming of the Lord is near, and that unless men repent and believe the gospel they will be destroyed by the brightness of his coming.

In this setting, as these and ten thousand like things are in progress, suddenly, quickly, as from the midst of eternity, He comes! Fire burns before him; tempests spread destruction; the earth trembles and reels to and fro as a drunken man.

Every corruptible thing is consumed. He sets his foot on the Mount called Olivet; it cleaves in twain. The Lord has returned and the great millennium is here! The year of his redeemed has arrived!

When the Lord comes in his glory, in flaming fire; that fire will both cleance the vineyard and burn the earth. In the day, so intence shall be the heat and so universal the burning , the very elements of which this earth is composed shall melt. The mountains , high and glorious and made of solid rock , shall melt like wax. They shall be dissolved. All things shall burn with fervent heat.

And out of it all shall come new heavens and a new earth whereon dwelleth righteousness. ..."

.... well I hope I can see good dreams..got to go to bed...

[Teancum18]

Personally, I don't think it's for quite a few hundred more years. I agree with everyone who has mentioned that people before us always thought that it would happen in their lifetimes, yet didn't. So much still needs to happen.

I know many people believe it is much closer. Many believe the Mayan calender is the most accurate, marking 2012 as 6,000 years since Adam fell. I do believe all that as well. However, Christ could come in the year 2411 and that would still be in the 6,000th year that the Second Coming was prophesied to occur in.

Some other things to consider:

- We know Heaven Father likes the numbers 3, 7, and 12... like, a lot. He likes prime numbers as well. John Taylor was the third Prophet. Heber J. Grant was the seventh Prophet. Spencer W. Kimball was the twelfth. Christ didn't come during any of them. President Monson is number 16. So it probably wont happen during his time. The next prime numbers are 17, 19, 23, 29, 31, 37, 41, 43, 47,and 53. The average time of service between the Prophets has been 11.3 years. So:

11 years to the 17th Prophet.

34 years to the 19th. (rounding 33.9 to 34)

79 years to the 23rd

147 years to the 29th

170 years to the 31st

237 years to the 37th

283 years to the 41st

305 years to the 43rd

350 years to the 47th

396 years to the 51st*...

Catch my drift?

- China and the Middle East will take at least 5 generations to sufficiently count them as a nation, kindred, and tongue that the gospel must reach before Christ comes again. More than likely, both will take longer. A generation is 30 years. 30 X 5 = 150. So once we get into those countries, add on another 150 years, not to mention how long it will take to actually get in them, each. And they probably wont happen at the same time. So it probably wont be until after the 29th Prophet. So at least 170 years is what we're probably looking at; at least!

- The saints aren't even righteous enough for many of the prophecies to be fulfilled. Don't believe me, then ask yourself this: Why hasn't more scripture been revealed, yet?

The lists go on. I'm not saying I'm right. Just that this is my logic behind my opinion.

* This is when I personally think He will come. Then give this prophet 7 good years to carry out the final preparations. So you're looking at 403 years from now. The year 2411 A.D.

Sorry people, not in our lifetimes. Besides, I'd rather be coming down with the armies of Christ, anyway. So that's the up side to all this.

[Hemidakota]

Every corruptible thing is consumed. He sets his foot on the Mount called Olivet; it cleaves in twain. The Lord has returned and the great millennium is here! The year of his redeemed has arrived!

Not only the Savior but His Army [144,000 that are called forth both the living and those who are specially resureccted to carry out this calling] will be by His side.

[Hemidakota]

Personally, I don't think it's for quite a few hundred more years. I agree with everyone who has mentioned that people before us always thought that it would happen in their lifetimes, yet didn't. So much still needs to happen.

I know many people believe it is much closer. Many believe the Mayan calender is the most accurate, marking 2012 as 6,000 years since Adam fell. I do believe all that as well. However, Christ could come in the year 2411 and that would still be in the 6,000th year that the Second Coming was prophesied to occur in.

Some other things to consider:

- We know Heaven Father likes the numbers 3, 7, and 12... like, a lot. He likes prime numbers as well. John Taylor was the third Prophet. Heber J. Grant was the seventh Prophet. Spencer W. Kimball was the twelfth. Christ didn't come during any of them. President Monson is number 16. So it probably wont happen during his time. The next prime numbers are 17, 19, 23, 29, 31, 37, 41, 43, 47,and 53. The average time of service between the Prophets has been 11.3 years. So:

11 years to the 17th Prophet.

34 years to the 19th. (rounding 33.9 to 34)

79 years to the 23rd

147 years to the 29th

170 years to the 31st

237 years to the 37th

283 years to the 41st

305 years to the 43rd

350 years to the 47th

396 years to the 51st*...

Catch my drift?

- China and the Middle East will take at least 5 generations to sufficiently count them as a nation, kindred, and tongue that the gospel must reach before Christ comes again. More than likely, both will take longer. A generation is 30 years. 30 X 5 = 150. So once we get into those countries, add on another 150 years, not to mention how long it will take to actually get in them, each. And they probably wont happen at the same time. So it probably wont be until after the 29th Prophet. So at least 170 years is what we're probably looking at; at least!

- The saints aren't even righteous enough for many of the prophecies to be fulfilled. Don't believe me, then ask yourself this: Why hasn't more scripture been revealed, yet?

The lists go on. I'm not saying I'm right. Just that this is my logic behind my opinion.

* This is when I personally think He will come. Then give this prophet 7 good years to carry out the final preparations. So you're looking at 403 years from now. The year 2411 A.D.

Sorry people, not in our lifetimes. Besides, I'd rather be coming down with the armies of Christ, anyway. So that's the up side to all this.

As President Benson recited Elder Featherstone Manti Temple speech [1987], the boy prophet is now living on this earth.

[LehiVermont]

Brethren,

We have EXTENSIVE witness in Zion to the 12/2012 date as the Day of Jesus...To quote Brother Mark: "Are you ready?"...

-L

the "DREAM is MINE"...

[JcDean78]

I worry not about these things. I continue to do the things I am supposed to do on a daily basis and whenever the time comes I will be ready.