Finrock

Hi Bini! :) Well, in Timothy it states that a bishop must be a husband of one wife. So, being married is a requirement for being a bishop, not just a tradition. -Finrock

Hi The Folk Prophet! I hope you've been well. :) I understand priesthoodpower to be saying that our church meetings in general should be more accepting of those who are sinners or those who are actively sinning should feel welcomed, loved, wanted, and desired at church. I believe he is saying that there should be less judgement and more empathy. I was speaking with a member who grew up in Utah. She made an observation that growing up in Utah there was great energy put in to appearing as if you were rigtheous and people were not open about their weaknesses at all. She was surprised when she moved to the Metro Detroit area and found that people were more open about their weaknesses and that there wasn't a hypocritical front or an attempt to hide the fact that one is a sinner. -Finrock

blueskye, You seem to want to make the point that we teach a doctrine of materialism. In this particular case you happen to be incorrect. You cannot factually make this argument. To persist in this argument it will require you to ignore what is true and right. -Finrock

The idea of Spirit-Led Teaching is not a new idea. There is a new emphasis being put on this principle, but it has always been taught that we must teach by the Spirit or not teach at all. The spirit matters most, has been taught since the beginning. I teach Gospel Principles. I love teaching the gospel. I feel comfortable talking about it and teaching it. This next part will come across as boasting but it is not intended to be that, but rather it is just factual. The reason why I feel comfortable talking and teaching about the gospel is because I have spent a lot of time learning the gospel. I have spent a lot of time reading the scriptures, in particular in reading the Book of Mormon. I have spent a lot of time reading Church manuals, materials, etc. I have also spent a lot of time learning about other religions, history, and culture. Because I have filled my head with these things, when I am without sin and the Spirit is with me, the Spirit will draw upon whatever it needs to from my brain so that I can teach and speak that words that the Spirit wants. Sometimes I'm aware of this, other times I am simply saying what I am saying. I take the time to read over the lesson. I make sure that I take the time to listen to how I am feeling that day. Sometimes what I am feeling is not what is in the lesson manual. I ask people in my class at the beginning of each class if they have anything that has been on their mind. I let my class know that I am not just going to talk but that I expect engagement. I tell them that I don't have all of the answers and that I don't know everything there is to know and so I will be asking for input and ideas. I am not afraid of silence. I don't let myself feel awkward. I try to be genuine and real with people. All of these things help me to keep my perspective right so that I don't get distracted from the spirit and start relying on my own strength. -Finrock

Hi The Folk Prophet! I hope you've been well. :) You make a good point. I think that Satan's desire was to be a "savior" that would save people in their sins as opposed to saving people from their sins. This is certainly appealing to the carnal man. Ultimately the decision to legalize same-sex marriage is related and connected to the law of chastity. It is also related and connected to the idea of whether there is a God. Take away the rhetoric and what you have is a situation where the government is being used to take away the shame and guilt of something that is against the principles of happiness. People suppose that if they can get the crowd to normalize their sexually deviant behavior that this will take away the accountability. To commit sin and to not be bothered by it requires abandoning God's laws and you must ignore reality. -Finrock

First, I don't think we are ever standing alone. God is always with us and has promised to protect or make right any abuses caused by others to those who exercise faith in Jesus Christ. We may stand alone in the crowds that we are associating with in that we may be the only person who is willing to stand up for righteous principles. In a crowd of other people we may be alone in our beliefs in a God. This can require courage because we risk the ridicule, judgement, or possibly even worse from those who do not believe as we do. I don't think that standing alone actually means you are an island. It is a rhetorical tool used to show that you must not forsake God and the principles of righteousness, no matter what. -Finrock

As far as I know The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not baptize underage children without their parent's consent. My biggest concern in this situation would be the fact that the pastor baptized my underage child without my consent. -Finrock

My mortal body is of the earth; fleshy, carnal, sensual, and an enemy to God. My spirit is from God. Clean, pure, and at one with God. John 14 D&C 50 When I meditate I am trying to empty my mind of carnal thoughts so that I can hear the Spirit of God that is within me. Inside each of us is light and goodness, no matter how small. This spirit is at one with God but it can be overpowered by our sins, our weaknesses inherent in our mortal bodies. -Finrock

I meditate, as in I quiet myself and search within. Rather, I am learning to meditate and I try to reach that state. We are commanded as a people and a church to meditate. Our prophets through-out the years have counselled us to meditate. I can find some quotes if you wish. I believe that meditation is an often neglected part of LDS worship despite it being a commandment. In most cases I believe LDS uses ponder and meditate interchangeably but although they are closely related, I think there is a distinction between the two. Namely, to ponder is to think deeply about something. To meditate may mean emptying your mind of all thoughts and to reach a state of internal peace. -Finrock

Good Morning Just_A_Guy! :) Can you provide your understanding of the difference between justification and sanctification? I ask not to debate but to learn. -Finrock

I believe that if I follow God's commandments then I will maximize my individual potential to live a happy and prosperous life. This is not merely theoretical for me. I have actual experience in this area. I obey God and strive to keep His commandments because I lived in hell and was living in hell; I was in a dark abyss and was miserable; I begged God for mercy and in His kindness and grace He poured out mercy upon me; He saved me from hell and saved my life! I have great gratitude and love for the Lord because of what He has done for me! So, I am motivated by my love for Jesus Christ and because of His atonement. At this point in my life as I strive to keep God's commandments sincerely and with real intent, my life and the life of my family improves. Some of the improvements are material but the ones that matter are the spiritual improvements. However, I don't expect anything from God because of my righteous acts. -Finrock

Zion. Acts 2:44 blueskye, material wealth does not indicate righteousness so the answer to your question about GDP is no. Material wealth is NEVER a measure of righteousness. You asked how is material abundance related to obedience which is what I explained. Your question about what it means to be prosperous is exactly the point. You decide. -Finrock

What does it mean to be sanctified? When does it happen? How does it happen? How do we know that we have been sanctified? -Finrock

Hi blueskye. If a community have all things common then that is a sign of the righteousness of all the individuals in that community. We will prosper in the land if we keep God's commandments because we will be blessed with peace, knowledge, health, strength, etc. If you strive to keep God's commandments, as a natural consequence, you will acquire and learn principles that, if put in to practice, will make you industrious and prosperous. However, your material wealth has no bearing on your personal righteousness. It is also true that God warns us on several occasions about seeking for riches and how being rich can be a very difficult temptation to overcome. -Finrock

I certainly believe that having your calling and election made sure is a factor in this discussion and what I stated was in part about that. However, it isn't all that I was thinking. Perhaps this scripture will help: 1 Cor. 13 Also, repetence is a choice. I believe that during our probationary period we never lose the opportunity to repent, we only choose to not repent. Its not so much about what we do than it is about who we are or who we, in all sincerity and desire, want to be. -Finrock

I think Paul's larger point though is that we are not to judge. We, like sheep, have all gone astray. We have all gone after our own way. As a young man my father caught me using smokeless tobacco. He took me aside one day and asked me a question. He said, "Son, if the devil appeared to you in this room right now and said that he would give you anything that you want in the world if you would just bow down and worship him, what would you say to him? As if the answer was obvious I said, of course I wouldn't worship him! In response my dad asked, "But you would worship him for a can of smokeless tobacco?" Our actions alone do not determine where we end up. We might never violate the letter of the law, yet if our hearts are corrupt it will be counted unto us as if we had done evil. A corrupt tree cannot bring forth good fruit, neither does a good tree bring forth evil fruit. In the end God will judge us by our thoughts, our words, our actions, and the condition of our hearts, taking everything in to account, and ALL of us will be found lacking unless we have exercised faith in Jesus Christ. But once a man has repented and has changed and has been saved it doesn't matter if his sins were as red as scarlet they shall be as white as snow. -Finrock

Hi The Folk Prophet! I don't mean this as a cut down and I am not expecting a response, but perhaps you think too highly of yourself? Are you sure that is how God sees you or judges you? Have you received an assurance from God that this is where you stand with Him? -Finrock

Joshua 1 -Finrock

Intervening does not mean stopping or preventing the thing from happening, only. We have to get the mindset that our spirits are not of this earth. This earth life, my mortality, is not the beginning nor the end of my existence. God is in control. We are in the middle of a test. We are in the middle of a growing, learning, and purifying process. It doesn't make sense for God to stop the test or to allow us to skip a part of the test. His intervention is intended to allows us to continue in our testing period until it is done. He doesn't intervene to remove us from the test. He intervenes to help us reach our potential. -Finrock

Luke 6 God is kind to the unthankful and to the evil. I think God loves all of His children equally and intervenes on their behalf as needed and as He desires to bless them. I believe God is intimately involved in our lives from the very beginning. The righteous have the benefit of having peace by knowing that we commended ourselves in to His care when we came to this earth and the unthankful and the evil are loved unconditionally by the Father as well and I am certain, based on Luke 6 that God is intervening on their behalf as well. I was sexually abused severely as a child and I know with certainty that God intended for me to be placed in to the conditions He placed me and that despite the abuse, God has been with me the whole time. I see His hand in my life as He uses means to bring about His purposes. The atonement is what makes all of this possible. God has been good to me and continues to be good to me and I know that I am not special or any more special than anyone else, therefore I believe God has been and continues to be good to all of His children. He is no respector of persons. -Finrock

Good Evening james12! I hope you are well. :) Does enduring to the end in your opinion mean enduring to the end of our probationary period, which may or may not be the end of our mortal life? What I mean is that it seems that enduring to the end does not necessarily mean enduring until our mortal life is over, but that we are being asked to endure in the way prescribed until the end of our testing/probationary period that is required for us to endure before the Father seals us up to Himself. In the past I have read the passage of scripture in 2 Ne 31:20 to mean that it necessarily means enduring to the end of mortality, but it seems that this isn't exactly the case or what is being said. -Finrock

Greetings Average Joe, According to your source the second degree of the Celestial Kingdom does have a continuation of the seed. http://ldsmag.com/article-1-11255/ -Finrock

I've gotten a bit off track from the main point being argued in my last couple of posts. Vort Not by itself, but my intent has been to demonstrate how multiple pieces, when put together, do strongly suggest that Zion encompasses, overshadows, is greater than, and is more inclusive than The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I understand the dilemna of agreeing to what terms mean, but, I trust what the words mean will eventually and ultimately come by the Spirit and so I will just tell you what I believe. First, I have been led to believe in the idea that the plain meaning is true and although there may be other meanings, they cannot take away the plain meaning. If we explain away the plain meaning then we explain away some very precious truths. Mosiah 5 clearly shows a people who were sanctified before they made their baptismal covenants or before they were a covenant people. Therefore this argues against the idea that one must be a covenant people before one can be sanctified. This would suggest then that those who are sanctified can include those who are not members of the Church. Mosiah 5 In this pattern the people were sanctified and then they made their covenants. They received a remission of their sins first and then covenanted that they would take upon them the name of Christ so that they can always retain a remission of their sins. I believe this is a true pattern. -Finrock

I believe that the apostles and Church leaders have been focusing on the distinction between the Church and the gospel of Jesus Christ in the last few years. Elder Hallstrom The Church is not the gospel of Jesus Christ and the gospel of Jesus Christ is not the Church. They are both necessary and essential however they are not one and the same. Elder Hallstrom I believe this distinction is important because I believe it is proper to say that Zion is the gospel of Jesus Christ but it is not proper to say that the Church is the gospel of Jesus Christ. The Church is an essential tool to help convert people to the gospel of Jesus Christ, which when lived in its fullness means living Zionic principles or in Zion. Zion is the end state of the gospel of Jesus Christ. The Church is a tool or an enabling power towards the gospel end state, which is Zion. -Finrock

Vort, I hear what you are saying and it may be technically true, but I look around me and I do not see Zion as it is described in the scriptures. If it is true that the Church is Zion then what we are experiencing to me seems only a shadow of Zion. We are not one. We are not unified. We have poor among us. We do not have all things common. By any measure we (collectively) are not a Zion people, therefore this Church is not a Zion Church regardless of any title placed upon it. So, you may be technically right, but at the end of the day, we are still left with something less than Zion. If the Church is Zion, which I certainly believe that is what it should be, then we must surely recognize that we are not yet living, as a Church, in a Zionic state. If we recognize that we aren't living up to Zionic principles or even living up to our covenants then perhaps then we have understood the scripture incorrectly. I think our prophets and many of our Church leaders are trying to teach us this distinction. Raising the bar, increasing missionaries, hastening the work, and many other efforts by the Church have been, in my view, a call for us to take upon us the greater mantle and start living the fullness of our covenants. Because I know the scriptures and because of the covenants I have understood and have made, I cannot concede that we are in Zion. The Zion of ancient days is not here yet. So, if the Church is Zion then all is not well in Zion. I think that Zion, in its glory, is still to come and the Church is the organization that is being used to build up Zion. Once Zion is fully established, the Church organization as we know it will cease to exist. There will be no need for prophets, and apostles, etc. because we will all be one and unified in the faith. -Finrock