sister_in_faith

I agree with you Suzie. Human society is twisted.

This video made me cry. Our society is so twisted in some ways. It breaks my heart.

I've never had a roommate, but I worked at a large 911 center where we had a large kitchen and two huge refrigerators... The food was NOT communal, with the exception of coffee, butter, and large bottles of ranch dressing that were really gross. That stuff was purchased with a fund of some sort. Everyone else had to provide their own food. I used parmesan cheese, and someone kept eating it. I finally got tired of 'sharing' so I put about an inch of salt into the container, shook it up, and put it back in the fridge. I don't know who was eating it, but they got the point and stopped. I actually had to sew a little mesh bag and put a padlock on it for my peanut butter and jam. One of the other employees brought a salad with shrimp on top of it. Someone went in and ate all the shrimp and put the salad back in the fridge. Wierd things happened in that place. Ugh.

Suspect arrested in hit-and-run that killed LDS missionaries | The Salt Lake Tribune The driver has been apprehended. Thank Heavenly Father the third victim has been treated and released... This is from the above article and is heartbreaking to me... what a wonderful young man. tragic loss. "Trevor Strong was reportedly just two weeks away from completing his mission, which he had earlier extended by four weeks at his request. "There were people he was working with [that] he wanted to see through," said Strong’s bishop, Lowell Caldwell."

I am by no means an expert on doctrine, but I was taught the exact opposite of this. I was taught that when you take sacrament it is as if you have just come out of the waters of baptism. I had been told a story about a woman who committed a major sin and asked if she could be 'rebaptized' so that she would feel forgiven for that sin. The church told her it was not necessary because when she next partook of sacrament it would be the same as being baptized (again). I have also been told many times that when you perform temple ordinances (baptism for example) it is as if you yourself have just gone thru that ordinance. This is just what I have been taught. I would be very sad if I found out that I was wrong about sacrament. I always prepare very carefully, and when I drink the water I always feel the spirit tell me that I am renewed again. It is a wonderful blessing for me!

truth. :)

Primate, I can't tell you how much I appreciate that! ((hugs)) back!

Yeah, I've got to admit I think this 'discussion' has deteriorated. I have made the points I wanted to make. This isn't helping me answer the questions I asked in my original post, in fact, it has just made things worse. I'm not really interested in continuing... To those who had good suggestions, THANK YOU! :)

This is horrific. I'm so sorry for the families... prayers are with them!

Traveler,Um, yeah, the spirit's kind of left me on this subject. I just mainly feel guilty for not just buckling down and fasting, so I'm not sure what to do at this point. Thank you for asking tho!

Hummm.

When you posted this, did you intend to suggest that people should TRY fasting even if they didn't think they were up to it?

This is the text off this page... on lds.org I Have a Question - Ensign Apr. 1979 - ensign "Questions of general gospel interest answered for guidance, not as official statements of Church policy. I am an insulin-dependent diabetic and cannot fast, but I feel guilty teaching my Beehive class about fasting when I can’t. What should I do? Malcolm S. Jeppsen, M.D., Regional Representative The question as to whether one can safely fast as a diabetic must, of course, be answered by the person’s physician. Many diabetics are in the early or mild stage of the diabetic process and can fast with complete safety for a time shorter than the customary twenty-four hours. Others, with the approval of their physicians, can observe a partial fast, such as abstaining from all food except orange juice or soft drinks every two hours, to maintain an acceptable blood sugar level. There are those who have determined that they cannot safely fast. I believe these individuals should keep several things in mind. First of all, since fasting is not required of those whose physical condition does not allow it, such a person should not feel guilty about being unable to fast. President Joseph F. Smith stated, “The Lord has instituted the fast on a reasonable and intelligent basis, and none of his works are vain or unwise. His law is perfect in this as in other things. Hence, those who can are required to comply thereto; … but let it be remembered that the observance of the fast day by abstaining twenty-four hours from food and drink is not an absolute rule. It is no iron-clad law to us, but it is left with the people as a matter of conscience, to exercise wisdom and discretion. Many are subject to weakness, others are delicate in health, and others have nursing babies; of such it should not be required to fast.” (Gospel Doctrine, Salt Lake City, Utah: Deseret Book Co., 1977, p. 244.) Those who cannot fast could draw close to the Lord in other ways. One of these is scripture study. The scriptures contain the mind and will of the Lord, not only for his people of ancient times, but also for us today. There is no surer way to draw close to the Lord than by regular and serious study of the scriptures. One may also give more emphasis to prayer by praying more often and by making his prayers more meaningful. The Savior told the Nephites: “Ye must always pray unto the Father in my name” (3 Ne. 18:19). He was speaking also to our day. We sometimes overlook the power of meditation in helping us feel close to the Lord. I have found it very important to ponder the things of God, my relationship to him, and his love for me. Meditation is especially valuable when it is accompanied by prayer and when it is done in solitude. Renewing our baptismal covenants by partaking of the sacrament can surely draw us closer to the Lord, as can attempting to keep those covenants by serving others. We should also take care to meet our church financial obligations, share the gospel with others, do temple and genealogy work, and strive daily to follow the example of our Savior, Jesus Christ. Fasting embodies a principle of sacrifice—that of denying oneself something so that he or she can become a more spiritual individual. Perhaps one could sacrifice something other than food and drink in order to accomplish this goal. One might abstain from television, movies, or sleeping in. One can also sacrifice by paying a generous fast offering. Finally, it occurs to me that this sister might be able to use her situation as an object lesson for her Beehive class, pointing out to her students that they should be grateful for their ability to fast." I think this part bares repeating... but let it be remembered that the observance of the fast day by abstaining twenty-four hours from food and drink is not an absolute rule. It is no iron-clad law to us, but it is left with the people as a matter of conscience, to exercise wisdom and discretion. Many are subject to weakness, others are delicate in health, and others have nursing babies; of such it should not be required to fast. That is exactly the point I have been trying to make. There are people (more than a very very few) who the church does not require to fast. Duh. I can't believe that this has been this difficult to prove. Ugh. seriously.

So am I understanding correctly that you think that as long as a fast doesn't kill someone then it is appropriate to do? I think this point may be where we differ. I wholeheartedly agree that a 24 hour fast will kill very very few people. Just because a fast won't kill someone doesn't mean they should do it. I have common sense. Off the top of my head here is a list of people that could be harmed by a 24 hour fast... -pregnant women -nursing mothers (I have heard some people say that not eating can cause a release of toxins [as a result of the body starting to eat stored fat] which are released into the breast milk... not sure if that's true, but like I said this is off the top of my head) -cancer patients undergoing treatment (chemo often causes severe nausia, and keeping even a little bit of food down can be a huge deal. putting yourself 24 hours behind the ball, so to speak, can be a really big deal) -people who take medication (often it is required that you eat when you take certain medications - skipping even one dose of medication can be harmful to someone, and I would not advise it) -diabetics (for blatently obvious reasons) I just found this: from 'fasting.com' and I don't think I could have said it better... "THESE SHOULD NOT FAST SCIENTIFIC FASTING, or any other type of fasting, whether juice fasting or water fasting, is contraindicated for children under 18 (because they're still forming bone and teeth); pregnant and nursing mothers (since their own detoxification would toxify their child, through their umbilicus or milk); insulin-dependent Type I diabetics (Type 2 diabetics may do our Waivered Program; those with laboratory tests revealing significant liver (eg., cirrhosis) or kidney disease (including renal failure patients--those who've been hospitalized with kidney failure and placed on dialysis, even if not currently on it); alcoholics (advanced stage), and those with hyperthyroidism and advanced thyroid malfunctions. Likewise, fasting is contraindicated for those suffering irreversible wasting diseases such as AIDS (advanced stage), tuberculosis, and other infectious diseases which must be reported such as advanced SARS and H5N1 Avian influenza or other lethal bird flus; extensive carcinomas and metastatic cancers (when fasting would contribute to their malnourished state, perhaps resulting in an earlier death); atrial fibrillation; cardiovascular diseases such as advanced old age, marked vascular diseases with poor circulation to various parts of the body (eg., smoker's leg), and cerebral degeneration due to arteriosclerosis (a.k.a. organic brain syndrome) or Alzheimer's disease; serious cardiac diseases including heart failure, severe cardiac rhythm disturbances, post-myocardial infarction, and severe cardiomyopathy and valvular heart defects. Additionally, fasting is contraindicated for those who are severely weak and debilitated, or with diseases caused by undernourishment or malnutrition, severe anemia and porphyria (a hereditary defect of blood pigment metabolism); bleeding disorders of the stomach and intestines; FSGS (familial focal segmental glomerulosclerosis); psychiatric disorders including severe manic-depressive illness (a.k.a bipolar disorder) and/or taking Lithium, schizophrenia, severe neuroses, severe anorexia nervosa or severe bulimia, and finally, those with insufficient understanding of the fasting process leading to their perceived inability to do without solid food for a prolonged period (despite countless hundreds of millions having done so before us). Similarly, FCI does not accept, as clients, those taking anti-convulsant or anti-epileptic drugs to control grand mal, psychomotor, myoclonic, and focal seizures, nor do we accept clients on diuretics (egs., Furosemide, Lasix or Spironolactone), anticoagulants (egs., Coumadin or Plavix), or drugs for congestive heart failure (eg., Digoxin) " And that list is off a website that PROMOTES fasting. So let's take a look at the above list, and then let's see if this list represents a 'very very' small segment of society. Humm. Nope. Looks like a lot of people to me. What are you even trying to say? That you don't have the right to your own opinion? You say that I am wrong in saying that you are welcome to your opinion and I am welcome to be offended, and then you say that I DO have the right to be offended, so by process of elemination you must be objecting to me saying you the right to your own opinion. I disagree, but then again, that means that you have the right to the opinion that you don't have the right to your opinion... ugh. Okay, whatever. My problem is that there are a lot of people who could be harmed by fasting. And when anyone trys to make this group of people feel bad about not fasting, that sucks. I think the whole "you probably won't die" line of thought is offensive. I have experienced severe health problems in my short life. I have been through times where due to the PTSD and medications I was taking I couldn't keep food down for long periods of time. A couple of years ago I went a couple of months where I would eat and then sit in front of the toilet trying to keep it down just a few more seconds so that my body could extract as much nutrition as possible before I vomited it into the toilet. I was so dehydrated that I had to go to the hospital for infusions to get SOME fluids in my system. At that time, I COULD have fasted if I wanted to. It wouldn't have killed me. But it would have hurt me. The doctor finally gave me marinol to try and give me the munchies. All that did was make me eat a lot of popcorn while my boyfriend laughed at me. The popcorn kernels hurt my throat when I threw them up later. I take a lot of medications that require that I eat food with them to take them. I used to take a diabetes medication that eating without food was like torture. Seriously. They finally took me off it the effects were just too much. If I had chosen to fast I would have had to not take that medication. Not taking that medication would cause my blood sugar to drop, and not eating would cause my blood sugar to drop. That combination could put me in the hospital, or worse yet, yes... It COULD kill me. These are just a FEW examples of why I shouldn't fast. It is difficult enough for me to go through life dealing with the medical issues I am dealing with, and the guilt I put on MYSELF for not being able to participate in fasting. I know I am missing out on blessings. Why do you think I started this thread in the first place? Then on top of all this, I have people like you saying things along the lines that make me feel like you frown on people who don't fast, and think they could just buck up and do it! It won't kill them after all! That is such an unloving position to take. Rather than guilt tripping people who can't fast (and yes, there are a lot of us) why can't you support us with understanding and kindness? We have a difficult enough road to travel without people like you guilt tripping us.

Today has been a really ruff day for me. A couple of major things have happened in my life... Been down in the dumps, so I just picked my my new Ensign and flipped thru, stopping at this article... Doing the Right Thing at the Right Time, without Delay - general-conference The article was just what I needed. It talks a bit about service. One of my 'big' things was that I was kind of forced into doing someone a BIG favor, but this has helped me see it as an opportunity for service rather than being taken advantage of. I guess, I donno, I'm still struggling with it, but this article kind of helped my day get better. I just felt compelled to come on here and share the article, and my testimony for today... I testify that families can be forever together. I know that things will get better tomorrow. I know that Heavenly Father loves his children, and feels our pain. I know that he cares about us, and wants us to be happy. I know that Jesus took upon himself all our hurts so that we would have a chance to be back with him and Heavenly Father with our families. I testify that we have a restored church on earth, and that obeying Heavenly Father allows us the blessings of our church, the sacrament, and the temple. The temple is a place where we go to glue our families together. I am so thankful for the blessings of the temple. I am so thankful for my bishop who, with the spirit, guides and helps me do the best that I can. I know that Heavenly Father puts people in our lives (sometimes people who we don't even know who they are, but we just talk to on-line) who help us feel better, and who we can support, and that knowing them blesses our lives. I testify that our church is the TRUE church of Jesus Christ. I testify that we have a living prophet that guides our church, and guides us. I testify of love. I type these things in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen. Thanks guys! (and please take it easy on me in this thread... I can't take a lot of negativity and criticism right now... thanks!)

anyone in here play mummy maze? I have a question about it... I kind of doubt anyone does, but I thought I would throw it out there!

I'm sorry Vort, I'm just not in the mood to really try and untangle all of this. I guess my point is just that generalizing and saying that very very few people are unable to fast is inaccurate. There ARE a lot of people who could be harmed by fasting, and I think that your post about it made some people feel uncomfortable about not being able to fast, me among them. You are welcome to your opinion, and I am welcome to take offense at it. And I do. I hope that helps clairify my concerns to you.

Thank you blackmarch... I have never even attemped a fast like activity, because I just thought it wasn't for me. But lately I really feel like I need to try on some level to experience those blessings, and at least try something. I was hoping that asking this question would help me get some good ideas about how to do something like a fast that didn't endanger my health... I am interested in understanding better what a fast feels like... is it a spiritual high? how long does it last? how does it make you feel (besides hungry)? Because I don't think I will ever be able to truly experience that, I want to get as close to it as I can! thank you guys for all your help!

I know I already commented, but while I was listening to Judo's song (which was awesome by the way!) I started to think about how I felt growing up... I was determined (and this was before I was a member of any church) that I wanted to have ONE husband. One of love my life, and everything I did was to honor this man that I would some day be with. I wanted to be able to stand next to him at the alter and him know that I had been with no one else and been virtuous all my life, FOR HIM. I explained this when I started dating to the guy I was seeing. I told him how I have prayed for my husband since I was little. I would stop what I was doing and pray for him, where ever he was in life, that he was having a good day. It was very important to me. I think that by telling these things to the one you are seeing, they will realize what a good catch you are. If you are doing this to honor your future husband, yourself, and your God, they can't help but want to help you achieve these things. And they will value you more for it!

Get a sharpe and just change the date on the little tabs on your license place. It is SO much easier than all that paperwork!

I think you should give it a try and just see how it works out! There is NO harm in talking to someone!!! :)

Good luck with the 'little' ones!

When I turned 13 I cried and cried and cried. I thought that since I was now officially a teenager I had to do drugs. I was TERRIFIED. wow. I literally had to have a sit down with someone who explained to me that you CAN say no, but I thought that the other kids would MAKE me do drugs. Yes. I'm a dork.

Vort, I see you are still in here... feverishly typing something clever, no doubt, but I'm callin it a night, and I'm off to bed! cya guys tomorrow!

We all agree that fasting is good, and we want to do it! I started a thread saying that I could not participate and was looking for alternatives. You then posted: "I don't know your situation, so I can't speak with any authority to your particular case. But in general, fasting makes everybody sick, until they get used to it. Until your body adapts to fasting, you will get a headache and feel pretty awful. That doesn't mean you're dying, even if you think you feel like you are. It means you have to habituate your body to fasting. Too many people give up on fasting without ever really giving it a chance. Fast once a month for a year, and if after the twelfth fast you are still feeling absolutely awful every time you fast, then you might want to reconsider your commitment. Until then, you can't know about fasting until you have given it an honest effort. In 1894, President Wilford Woodruff said: It was remarked this morning that some people said they could not fast because it made their head ache. Well, I can fast, and so can any other man; and if it makes my head ache by keeping the commandments of God, let it ache. There may be some people whose health is so delicate and fragile that they would be harmed by fasting for 24 hours. Such people are very, very rare; for the vast majority of us, our overall health could only improve by avoiding food for a day. I believe if the Saints, and indeed anyone else, fasted once a month, they would see real health benefits. To answer your question more directly: No, I don't believe there is any Lent-like substitute for fasting, like giving up TV or sex or phone conversations for 24 hours. The law of the fast is specific to food, I think." Which in some part implies to me, the following... Too many people think that they are too sick to fast, when they are not. There are very very few people who cannot participate, the others who say they are sick and aren't should just buck up and do it anyway regardless of the consequences, as President Woodruff described. The link you provided a document that suggested that if god asks of one to fast, that he then makes it possible, and you should just push ahead (I reserve the right to have mistated this because it's not right in front of me) But basically after reading that I made me feel like I was supposed to be ashamed of not being able to fast. And that my attitude should be dang the consequences, I'm gonna fast! The reason I requested clarification was because, in my opinion that is an offensive position to take. It hurts those of us who are disabled, and are still good members of the church. You could easily end up sending someone into an emergency kind of situation using guilt to make them fast when they shouldn't be. I agree with you that there are probably some people who don't fast and they don't do it simply because they don't want to, but they say it is for medical reasons. I agree that those people could/should be guilted into participating, but not by us! That is reserved for their bishop to decide. So if you are coming on here trying to be the participate in fast hero I think your sentiments are dangerously misplaced. And I took it as a personal afront because it was in a thread in which we were discussing my personal situation. I don't think it was a good idea to start making broad generalizations when it felt aimed at me.