sister_in_faith

I'm not sure how the rest of the report card is going to turn out, but I KNOW I'm getting an A for effort! :)

Does anyone know WHY they decided to institute this law? Was there a big problem with this? You Utahins... <shaking my head> you are all crazy.

lol, I guess I'm not alone! And I've learned I'm not a sinner, I'm a fool... thanks a lot windseeker! Heee hee hee

I was on costco the other day, and they had one of those tables out where they were giving out samples. This particular one was for fruit juice. I took one of the little cups and downed the contents like a shot. I was making small talk with the sample lady when she mentioned that the juice contained tea. I would have had to go throw up to get it out of my stomach. I decided to just let it go, but I literally felt sick afterwards... what would you guys do in that situation? Another time, while out to dinner with friends we ordered a chocolate sunday at Applebees. It came out and everyone started enjoying it, but I realized after a couple of bites that they had put mocha coffee flavored topping on it. I thought about asking to send it back, but didn't want to make a big deal out of it. I just stopped eating it. how would you guys handle that? thanks for your thoughts!

I'm a huge fan!!! I loved mattimeo. That was my favorite.

This may be a bit extereme, but would you be interested in having him come live with you, so that you have some authority to demand that he get treatment, go to church etc? That seems the only way that you could actually have control over it???

I can't imgaine that there will be very much of an enforcement effort, if any.

The mother died in 1992 or 1993 I think. I don't know if that matters to your point funky or not? And why wouldn't we want to demonize her if it's true? The same as any other person who tortures and tries to kill another human being. She SHOULD have been charged and taken to jail. Just a thought.

If it's not baroque, don't fix it! :)

Bravo anne!

I wasn't gonna say anything, but so do I... don't tell anyone! shhhhhhhh!

I thought I made clear I wasn't for doing radical things like supporting green peace?

Vort, I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree...

Aw shucks! I PROMISE you that the bf thing is legit... I've even had a recommend interview since we all that that discussion, and I talked to the bishop and the SP about what people on this forum thought about my situation. I even asked if I was 'tarnishing' the church by being a member in my situation. Ugh. Anyway, skip to the end of the story and I have a shiny new temple recommend in my purse! It's alllllll good. :)

"Traditional Zulu Women Attire - The women dress depends on whether they are single, engaged or married. Unmarried Woman who are avaiable are proud of displaying their figure/body. They wear a short skirt made of grass or beaded cotton strings and puts on a lot of creative beads. Clothing for Zulu girls is mainly made of beadwork and is usually revealing." This description was accompanied by a picture, (which I won't post, or provide a link to for obvious reasons, but I'm sure you could find it on your own) of four women with their breasts fully exposed, wearing only small coverings for the pubic area, and large necklaces. Would sister vort wear only a small covering for her private area, and no top with her breasts exposed, if she were unmarried and visiting a traditional village in Africa just to 'fit in'? Would Joseph Smith want her to? IF Joseph Smith wants ME to wear a burqa, then I'm in the wrong church. If I thought that this practice was something expected from me, I would quit the church, and do everything I could to bring as many sisters as I could with me. If the KKK held a rally in my neighborhood and asked me to wear one of those stupid looking white pointy hats to be 'respectful' of their beliefs, I would refuse, because I have a moral issue with their beliefs and I don't support them. I believe that there are many instances where we have a MORAL OBLIGATION to stand up for what we believe in. This could include refusing to participate in practices like wearing a burqa. Vort I have my own moral compass. I would not champion the cause of stripping naked in front of children. That is dumb.

Anne, have I mentioned that I think you're pretty smart?

Remember that Heavenly Father knows your heart better than you do. You can't fool him! I think you know that there would be consequences for deliberately not doing as Heavenly Father wants, with the intention of 'repenting' later. I don't know what they would be, but I don't intend to find out. Ask the spirit if whatever you want to do is the right thing or not. I bet that any guilt you may or may not feel is his way of telling you to be careful.

This is the only thing I can find that claims to outline 'contradictions' in the book... but to me, things like editing don't count as a contradition... This is a book review, the link is below. "Alarm bells started to ring when I began to read this book, knowing in advance that what the story covers is disturbing and details the life between the ages of 4 and 12 of Dave Pelzer. I had vague ideas about the outline of the story and a little knowledge of what to expect, although the alarm bells for me began right at the beginning of the book when he acknowledges that the book is heavily edited by Marsha Donohoe, an editor by profession, in an attempt to make the story seem as if it were told by a child. Surely a story of what purports to be "one of the most disturbing child abuse cases in the history of California" should have stood its' ground without this treatment, and I suspected that rather than wanting to make the book more appealing, what the editor was in fact trying to achieve and succeeded in was selling a shocking story big time. Somehow a story of this magnitude doesn't have the same impact when written by an unknown adult. The book was first published in the UK by Orion Media in the year 2000, and has subsequently been published in 33 different languages. The book has made money. It's a best seller, although the alarm bells that started to ring when I began my journey through the book, continued to such an extent that I am drawn towards writing what I think of a bestseller nominated for a Pulitzer Prize. Writing style and character development. From the initial pages of the book, the writing style of this author or in fact the woman that was claimed to have edited it (and who incidentally was romantically involved with Dave Pelzer at the time), seemed at best amateur, although as stated, it was supposed to be written as if being the thoughts of the child. What began to worry me within the pages of the book was that whilst the story was about a middle class family in California in the 1970's, with five sons, there was little mention of Dave's father or his brothers. This struck me as bizarre since I grew up in a family of similar size, and although had issues with my mother, would still recall interactions between myself and my sisters in memories, whilst Dave did not. It was almost as if they were shadows on the wall, rather than participants in his childhood, and the picture that the author was painting was almost like an oil painting of scenery with no background. For what it's worth, the story begins on an optimistic note that actually acts as a safety barrier for the chapters that follow, knowing all the way through the book that there will be a conclusion that is at least happier than the road that takes you through this strange surreal explanation of a childhood that has gained such notoriety worldwide. The scenario set in the second chapter recalls how Dave saw his family life in the 1960's, and the happiness that filled their home. His father, Stephen, was a fire fighter on shift work, and the stability of family life something that even an abused child can look back on and remember as good times. This rings alarm bells as well, because had a child suffered the amount of abuse described in the chapters that followed, I doubt that their memory would go back as far as the ages that it is supposed to. Perhaps this description of their lives is the best that the writer could muster, and certainly, I would have difficulties myself in trying to describe my home life at the tender age of 4 or 5 with any accuracy. It doesn't ring true and seems almost like Dave is purposely remembering selectively the things that he choses to. The problem with selective memory is that it really does not make your written work believable. In the chapters that follow, the reader is expected to believe that this perfect "role model" mother turned into a monster that chose to abuse one of her sons and how the story fails to convince is in that it tells one story from one angle, forgetting all other perspectives, puts aside logical thinking and reason, and expects the reader to accept without question that what is being said is true. The torture that the child is put through in the book makes very little sense to me. Yes, of course, a mother can favour one child over the others, and this often happens, though can a mother also single out one child to abuse, and be a loving mother to her other children and to the outside world ? Personally, I have my doubts. There are many instances within the book that are shocking, so shocking that several times, I had to distance myself from the story in order to gain perspective, because what I was reading made no sense. There are contradictions galore throughout the story, such as the descriptions of his mothers' obsession to starve the child, weighed against his own description in a miserable and almost "sorry for myself" description of his lunch pail always having the same contents. So many discrepancies made me wonder about the truth that lies behind the words. Yes, the child was taken into care at the age of 12, but we are lead to believe that for the last 4 to 5 years of the lads' life with his family that he was starved, tortured in despicable ways, unfed, dressed in the same clothes over a period of 12 months at a time, and that no one noticed. The descriptions are graphically disturbing, although without the background on the canvas, or a picture of family life, friends, siblings, or even a hint at emotion towards his father, the words were hollow, and only shocked me from lack of logic and explanation. It struck me that the whole book is like a testament of guilt thrown towards a woman that for some reason failed, although everyone is to assume her guilt without any proof or hard evidence that the story is true. The book made me research, made me ask questions to fill in the gaps that were so glaringly obvious and it seems that the story was only published after the death of his mother in January 1992, by which time his father had also died. I also questioned why members of the family had never contested the contents of the book, although here found that many had dismissed it as folly and that his own Grandmother (accused of abuse of his mother and one of the weak arguments for why Dave's mother became abusive in the first place) stated that Dave's book belongs in the fiction section. It is weak throughout all of its' chapters. No teachers noticed. No neighbours complained and what really did make me angry about the writing of this book was that it insults the reader's intelligence and integrity by its' lack of substantiation. Sure, the child was abused. Of that there is no doubt, as he was taken into care at the age of 12, though if the authorities believed Dave's version of events, would they have left four other young children in the care of such an "unfit" mother ? I think not. Taken a step further, none of his brothers comment upon the contents of the book, and although there is a small chapter where quotes were made by Dave's teacher at the end of this book, the teacher stays "neutral" and says that the story is Dave's to tell, and that back in those days very little was known about the existence of child abuse. This was a retrospective comment made on an event that was scaled as enormously important, though the response given by the teacher who had been contacted by the editor of this book was scathingly careful to say the least. I would suspect that the brothers of Dave are now married and moved on, and even their names have been changed within the characterizations in the book in an attempt to protect them from scandal. I honestly feel that the publishers knew that no-one would contest the story written by Dave, and would certainly have felt easier in their sleep in the wake of a book written by Dave's brother, Richard, who seemingly jumped on the same bandwagon in an attempt to find a moments' glory in the shadow of his famous brother. His book entitled "A Brother's Journey" relates to the treatment he received at the hands of his mother, when Dave had been taken into care, and he would certainly not contest the contents of this book on the grounds that it may put his own efforts in jeopardy. All the way through this disturbing read, there are constant contradictions, and I believe "selected" memories, put together in an attempt to shock, though to what purpose ? In some respects, if Dave were as badly abused as he says he was, perhaps the book was his way of coming to terms with what had happened, though personally I doubt it. The book has made the man rich, and the two books that followed and made the trilogy of "A Boy Called It", "The Lost Boy", and "A Man Named Dave" seem too commercially contrived as a money spinner to have served any useful purpose in the way that child abuse is dealt with, and I can only believe that the bitterness and pain shown as incomplete pictures within this book, owe their incompleteness to the perceptions of a mind tortured by memories that somehow still do not make sufficient sense to complete the picture, even to him. A week after having read this book, the disturbing images that it produced in my mind are still there, but what remains within my thoughts through the writing Dave Pelzer is how cleverly people can manipulate circumstance for gain." Read more: Book reviews: A Child Called it, by David Peltzer I still think it's true... Another thing, I would not recommend that any one who hasn't read this book read it. It WILL haunt you. The imagery is VERY disturbing. I can still see visions of him suffering in the 'gas chamber'. Ugh.

EXTRA magic!!! YAY!!!

I can't think of any worse thing than this story being true, EXCEPT, this story being true and people not believing it. Recently I found on-line a posting from my sister (who I haven't spoken to in at least 15 years) about the abuse she suffered at my mother's hand. I was at my family hx center with friends, and broke down at the computer and sobbed. I printed it off, and asked my boyfriend to drive directly to the family hx center so he could read it. I took it to my counselor and had her read it. I'm still not sure why it meant so much to me, because no one has questioned if I am telling the truth about my past abuse, but seeing it in writing from my sister, echoing EXACTLY the things I had been saying for years was very liberating. If we come down to not really knowing if it's true or not, I think we owe this man the benefit of the doubt. (not that our opinion on a website REALLY matters) After adding my opinion to this thread I did a little research, and found that his grandmother and a brother are the two who are saying that his story is made up. I don't think the grandmother KNOWS for sure one way or another. I know that my mother was VERY focused on hiding her abuse, and I hid it for her. This seems to be the way it happened in the child called it too. I think it was very possibly happening right under a lot of people's noses. They SHOULD have picked up on the signs, but for whatever reason they didn't. Both the brother and the grandmother have a vested interest in this story being discredited. We need to keep in mind that another brother BACKS UP this story, and even admits participating in some of the abuse. Again, let me say, it has been years since I read the book, and I have no idea if it is true or not. These are just my opinions!

I agree with Mahone... blackbook. that's what we called it. we would keep track of when supervisors screwed up (this was at the latest 911 center I worked at, which was the definition of dys-funk-shen), so that if you ever made a mistake you could pull your litte black book out and say, oh really? We kept track of coworkers mistakes so if a coworker tried to pull something on you, you could say, oh really? But this was out of absolute necessity. Everyone did it. It was a sucky place to work. Nip it in the bud, because if you don't correct misconceptions right away, the supervisors start to take them as facts, and then if something else comes up, they already think you're the lazy one. But I'm pretty cynical when it comes to work place issues.

I respectfully disagree that we should bend to fit into other's expectations. If I was visiting a church or country where it was expected for women to wear clothing that would not allow me to wear my garments I would politely refuse, and wear something that I was comfortable with. Conversely I believe it is immoral for women to be forced to wear burqas (I'm talking about the blue coverings with mesh for the woman to see out of). I would be okay with wearing a hijab (something that covers only the hair) out of respect, but putting on a burqa I would NOT do. I would not do it even if there was a possibilty that I could be punished. I think someone needs to stand up and help those women win some freedom, and seeing a woman wear only a hijab and get away with it may help. UGH! I would have to be having a REALLY bad hair day to wear something like that...

That could be! I know the guy sitting next to conrad murray with the white hair creeps me out!

I picked this book up years ago while I was shopping in kmart. I started reading it, and literally couldn't put it down. I stood in kmart and read it cover to cover. I personally think that it came off as a true story. There were a lot of details that would have been difficult (not impossible) to make up. As a child who grew up in an abusive house, I could almost feel myself there with him. Insofar as siblings backing up his story, I would be surprised if any of them did. We have to realize that their survival depended on making mommy like them, and allowing their brother to take all the abuse helped them survive. They are going to be very damaged, and I don't think their loyalty would be to their brother. I haven't heard anything, other than here, that it may be a fraud. I tend to think it's not, but that is just how I felt reading it. The other thing is that NO one involved in this story, teachers or siblings, really have anything to gain by this story being true, but they all do if it's not. Can you imagine the shame one would feel if you had been this child's teacher and had missed all the signs and not done anthing to save him? I would not be surprised if someone tries to debunk it just so that they aren't shamed by their inaction. That all said, I have no idea if it is true or not. I could be one of the ones who just bought it hook line and sinker. If anyone has any hard evidence, I would be interested in hearing it!

I remember when I first started going to this church, one Sunday I was running late, and I hadn't pressed my skirt the night before, so I put on my pair of dress jeans (very dark blue, and long, so they were cute with heels) and wore heels and a very dressy shirt. This woman leaned over during sacrament meeting and asked me why I was mad at God? It was a little wierd, but I NEVER wore pants again. If I don't have a skirt, I just don't go to church. I think that God would prefer that we go to church in jeans if we have to, rather than not go.