jayanna

That was unnecessary...and he was speaking in the figurative....intellect should not resort to such tactics as the ones you are utilizing here. Cynicism does not make you intelligent, it only makes you cynical.

Have patience, Gwendolyn, we will have much understanding over time. Is there a particular principle that was bieng taught? Perhaps focusing on the principle rather than the specific scripture will help. I love your humble nature, and your desire to learn. That is a most important thing to have, and important way to be as we will enter into God's kingdom teachable as little children are.

This is exactly what I was taught too, and the Mission Pres. confirmed that it was correct for them to have told me so. By partaking of the sacrament when you don't know about it really does not defile you. It is good to be given instruction concerning the sacrament. You should know the purpose of it when you are ready to understand it. It is when you ignore sacred covenants that you have made and partake anyway that you are defiling yourself. I think the best guide for it is to follow your conscience.

Ironically, in 3 Nephi, the Savior teaches the people the sacrament, and they partake of it (paticularly the disciples), and then they (including the disciples) get baptized later...and after that they have the sacrament again...in the next chapter I believe. Pretty sure the Savior didn't screw it up. Read in 3 Nephi Chapters 18, 19, 20 3 Nephi But we are straying from the OP Martian, if your bishopric is anything like mine :) they are watching as each person takes the sacrament. I asked my hubby once what he was looking so hard at during sacrament? He was so serious and watchful, what was he watching...he said he and the other two were watching to see that everyone who should have it, gets a chance to take it, and to see who is not taking it too see if they are doing okay. All things have two or three witnesses, including the ordinance of the sacrament. This did not occur to me until recently, but he is witnessing at that time. While being worthy to administer the sacrament, the men passing it are not judges in Israel and should not decide who is worthy or not, or who should be 'warned' of or not. Notice that while a baptism is performed, the one performing it is not the one who decides the worthiness of the one partaking, nor are they their own witnesses. It is the same for the sacrament. Rest assured that the Bishop knows more than you might think.

It's so funny that you wrote that, my hubby and both daughters are studying cell division right now. One in jr. high, one in HS, one in college, all at the same time. What are the chances? We are coming up with ideas to build a model cell for my youngest daughter's science class.

I love the drilux, though your climate might be a bit more damp than here. I have very very hot summers, almost the entire summer last year was over 100 deg. Also remember on the Drilux not to use fabric softener. The softener gums up the tiny holes that make it breathe right. I tend to go a size smaller on garments, and a size bigger on clothes to go over them. I'm so excited for you!

MormonMama, what just helped me, just now is watching some faith-inspiring videos, I'll try to link one here...Finding Incredible: What Cancer?and Trials?Can Teach Us - Church News and Events videos help me some, and reading the Ensign... also serving, visit a nursing home, soup kitchen, helping the missionaries, visit teaching, preparing to teach a primary class this Sunday, something like that

Thanks, everyone. I am a little worried about keeping in touch. Our current ward boundaries include about 4 counties (about 60mi x 40mi) so we don't really see a lot of members during the week. We get together for meetings, and some come to activities but it is hard for a lot of members...older ones can't drive so well at night and younger ones just can't afford the extra gas, what with diaper budgets and all Regardless, I am really looking forward to the future growth in our area!

Well, as some that have known me on here for a while may know, my ward is getting a new building. It is a much much bigger building. There is talk of the ward splitting sometime in the not so distant future. What does this mean exactly? Do you never see people again? How are the members split? Can you attend either meetings? What about seminary etc.? WE only have about half a dozen attending seminary as it is.

Okay, that one hit a little too close to home for me. What happened at the Mountain Meadows Massacre was not okay, and is not okay when compared to war. I had family members in that group, they were from Arkansas. While I do not blame the church as a whole, I do consider those who were involved in it to be criminals. I do not console myself or my family members with "well it wasn't as bad as some others" It was very very bad. It was planned and plotted murder involving families, parents shot and killed in front of their children. Men, women, and yes, children were killed. Please let us not try to excuse this. The Following can be found in the Ensign article : The Mountain Meadows Massacre - Ensign Sept. 2007 - ensign On Friday, September 11, Lee entered the emigrant wagon fort under a white flag and somehow convinced the besieged emigrants to accept desperate terms. He said the militia would safely escort them past the Indians and back to Cedar City, but they must leave their possessions behind and give up their weapons, signaling their peaceful intentions to the Indians. The suspicious emigrants debated what to do but in the end accepted the terms, seeing no better alternative. They had been pinned down for days with little water, the wounded in their midst were dying, and they did not have enough ammunition to fend off even one more attack. (Please see the article for explanation of earlier attacks) As directed, the youngest children and wounded left the wagon corral first, driven in two wagons, followed by women and children on foot. The men and older boys filed out last, each escorted by an armed militiaman. The procession marched for a mile or so until, at a prearranged signal, each militiaman turned and shot the emigrant next to him, while Indians rushed from their hiding place to attack the terrified women and children. Militiamen with the two front-running wagons murdered the wounded. Despite plans to pin the massacre on the Paiutes—and persistent subsequent efforts to do so—Nephi Johnson later maintained that his fellow militiamen did most of the killing. Actions taken on that day made it very hard to be accepted in my family after joining the church. Yes there is a memorial there, dedicated by Pres. Hinkley, and a lot of family can point out that the graves of 29 men, women and children were dug up by the construction of the memorial and had to be reburried. "The day before the dedication, descendants of the wagon train pioneers held a two-hour memorial service and reinterred the remains of 29 men, women, and children that had been accidentally uncovered during construction of the new monument." found News of the Church - Ensign Nov. 1999 - ensign I would not call it a 'dim spot'...or a 'small thing' and yes it is something to be ashamed of. No I don't think they were being human, I don't think they were being human at all. I know that you and I can appreciate all of the good things the church has done...but many that I am related to, and have to answer to, do not believe in the Book of Mormon, so don't think the missionaries, temples, and Joseph Smith are good things. Nonmembers have done amazing things too, what about the very website you are on right now, and your computer, and the roads, planes, and cars those missionaries use every day? And it does not excuse the rude behavior of some of them to you, does it? If their great things do not excuse their rude comments, then how can all of the good things (that you and I think are good, but not them) excuse murdering innocent women and children? I think you may have a beam in your eye. Let's not gloss it over and cover it up with good deeds. Instead, let's own it and learn from it, and never get that attitude again.

LOL come to my library, we don't have late fees! Best library ever

Some people in my ward wear crosses, though not often. I don't think there would be anything said to someone wearing one. We really prefer our lives and actions to be the symbol of our religion to those observing us, rather than using outward symbos as identifiers of ingroups. IF there is an actual rule about it, I have never heard one and to be honest, I really doubt there is one. I wanted to add, I think you should wear your medals if you want to. You might meet some members that know what it is and strike up a conversation. I hope you enjoy the meetings, and yes you are more than welcome to attend all 3. When in doubt, the Elders (look for the name tags) will tell you where your next meeting is. The sacrament is passed around and you can simply pass it to the next person without taking any, no problem.

I agree, I just cannot see how a bishop could do it all without switching yokes with the Lord. In the case of the sister I taught she did not have any children at home so shrug, I stayed zipped anyway. It is not my stewardship to try to use authority to correct her, just give her what assistance I can and let those in authority handle it from there. sustaining the bishop sometimes means keeping out of the way.

A friend of mine posted on facebk that the only thing she calls a superbowl is a toilet that can clean itself :)

Well, I work at a library. I have a lot of patrons that call and are having problems downloading ebooks to their kindles. They bring their kindle to the library for help, they email, and they usually call later. They prefer our app to their kindle app for one thing, and they have trouble with a lot of the features on the kindle. Rarely a day goes by without someone having kindle issues. I have never had one problem with a patron using an ipad/ipod. We got a tablet for my hubby to use at church and it is awesome, it's a dell 7" tablet. It was cheaper than the fire, and has all the android apps, he has his church calendar, scriptures, handbooks, etc. on it. It does ebooks obviously, and youtube videos, etc. He can check his email and everything.

I would not say a thing, not one thing, not to her and not to anyone else. Actually, that has happened to me while I was VT. My lips are sealed as to who and when. The RS Pres. and Bishop are aware, that is all who need to know. If it is not a true revelation, then she is really only hurting herself more. I would really really pray for the poor bishop that has to deal with it. If there are children in the home it is really hard to tell someone 'no' to assistance, ya know?

Happy Birthday!!!

Wahooo!!! That is wonderful!!! Know that you are loved and wanted!!!! What a wonderful, wonderful day. A great beginning!

What a fantastic opportunity! I was just thinking, it might be a good idea to mention the Mormon Battalion, who went to fight for the US in the Mexican War. You could mention the relations with the Native Americans...

I think you will need to be very, very patient. Regardless of his actions, continue on your path. Let him see the joy and comfort that the gospel brings into your life. Eventually he will come upon a trial or need and he will look back at what he left behind. It is hard, I know. I am the only one of my family (outside hubby and kids) in the church. Sometimes one of our siblings looks at us and says, "What is it that you are doing differently that your family is so different?" They see our relationships with each other, and our long standing care of each other and wonder how it all happens. Your life will be a testimony. It may take a lifetime for him, but let him tread the path he chooses, and enjoy the path that you are on. Eventually, the grass will look greener to him on your side of things. What it will take for him to awaken, well, it could be anything...a girlfriend, a life-altering moment of some kind...for my hubby it was me going to the temple without him. Everyone is different.

I have tried in the past few years to go with, "it is more important to be kind than it is to be right." I have a problem with teachers instructing with false doctrine. It has happened several times, and I try and try to just sit there, but I just can't. After maybe a comment or two trying to get class back on the manual, I kinda give up. Okay so some things that got taught were not only out of some random philosphy book, but activities were planned around it, and it was being used to ostracize some members of the ward....okay...everyone knows that's wrong. I had a problem with it. Some very wrong things were said, and taught. I got a little angry about it, but stayed calm, and told the bishop how I felt after letting the people involved know, with no result but a roll of the eyes. Well, somehow, the Stake Pres. found out. He had a talk with the bishop and the book that was being used stopped being used, but everyone thought it was me that spoke with the SP. People were a little hot about it, and I got some cold shoulders, and not a little mentioning of sustaining church leaders, etc. The bishop questioned me about it, and I distinctly felt that he did not believe me. Yes, I could have been angry about the whole thing of it, 1. wrong things being taught 2. I try to be proactive and up front about it, with no result 3. I'm told I'm not sustaining church leaders 4. The SP agreed that it shouldn't be taught 5. why are they more worried about who told than they are sorry for teaching that dumb crap? 6. why treat me that way when they should be apologizing? Eventually, I did meet with the SP. He told me that there is always going to be someone to be the gum in the works...opposition in ALL things. He said that while there is something called righteous indignation, this is not the time for it. He even told me who it was that told him about the book and lessons...it was the Stake RS Pres !! And then he told me something that I need to be better about. He said that whatever gets taught wrong, no matter who is teaching it to whom, I should take notes and study it up, so when it is my turn to teach that I will know what is right and what is wrong. I can turn this situation into a learning experience, thwarting the plans of the adversary. Then he told me to let those with authority deal with false teachings, it is not my concern even if I am sitting in the class. You can tell if your loss of templer is righteous indignation by what is produced by it. Did it improve or destroy relationships with those involved, or those affected? Here is a good source, though I think you mostly have a handle on your temper, but if you apply some of the things in this article, it might help you know what to do in your work situation: Tempering Our Tempers - Liahona Feb. 2008 - liahona This article describes righteous anger and who to tell, and how to deal, mostly about parenting, but relationships anyway : Dealing with Anger and Contention - Ensign Sept. 1988 - ensign I hope things work out better for you. I, too, have been at the wrong end of some else's emotional issues at work, they tend to be ongoing, and relentless with little closure. Explain to your superiors that the fellow co-worker's insuboordinate attitude and negative remarks are causing a hostile work enviornment, and let them deal with it.

I don't know about paying back tithing, but I know six months is not an unusual amount of time to practice tithing before going to the temple. When my hubby decided it was time to get the priesthood and start working on temple worthiness, we got the timetable, six months of him paying tithing before scheduling a temple sealing. At the time he was counseled about it he had the impression that it was a standard time limit. Everyone was so thrilled that he had finally come around, but six months is six months, and he needed to show (to himself as well as the Lord) that it was not some momentary high, that it would be a lifelong habit. The fact that they had already been through the temple covenants makes me wonder if the bishop was being a little more forgiving than some would be actually. In the BOM the Lord referred to not paying tithings and offerings as robbing him...it is very serious. And they are denying themselves the opportunity to be blessed in many ways, He will open the windows of heaven to them if they obey. This is a great and merciful plan to get them back on track and back to the temple.

I don't know, you would have to ask them, anything else would just be speculation on my part. It could be a number of reasons, maybe they got an answer and didn't recognize it as an answer, heck I don't know. My job is to shine a light not point a finger.

I appreciate all of the input on this thread, it has really helped me to ponder what my definitions are for things. I think doctrine to me means current teachings... Scripture are recordings of the word of the Lord through prophets, and apostles. Gospel principles are basics of the gospel that are not changed (the nature of God, nature of the Holy Ghost, Baptism, etc). I think this is what those eternal truths are that are being referred to. The role of past and present prophets are in the following analogy for me. Because my hubby loves football I have been learning about it, so we can enjoy it together. I am very interested in the organization of it, as well as the preparation that goes into an upcoming game. All of the team learn plays, and what part of those plays apply to what they are supposed to do. There is a play book that they study, and a teacher who is the coach of their role (defensive coach, offensive coach, etc.). During the actual game, the plays that were taught are the only plays used. There is a quaterback, a coach, and a man high up in a box looking down called an offensive coordinator. The offensive coordinator is looking down on the field and can see things in the big picture. He can call down plays that need to be run. The quarterback generally listens to this, but sometimes he, because of the timing of what has been sent down to him, and the changes in the line he has to change what the play is going to be. If a play is decided on by the guy in the box, and then there is something suddenly indicated in the defense, the quarterback can call and audible. This is personal revelation. The play book are the gospel principles that all of the called plays are based on. Gospel principles are found throughout the scriptures. They are taught repeatedly. Some of them seem obtuse, or vague, which prompted Joseph Smith to ask about them, like and sealings, confirmations, etc. They have been around since the beginning of time, we just need a prophet to tell us what the Lord says about us applying that particular gospel principle. Time and seasons determine what plays are called, causing doctrine. The Living Prophet is the communication system between the offensive coordinator and the quaterback. What is communicated is current doctrine, meaning the play currently being worked on. This will always be based on the plays, or gospel principles, taught during the week. So yes, current prophets teach on established gospel principles already found in the scriptures. These teachings are based on communication from our defensive coordinator, Jesus Christ. He determines what we need to do right now, for example should we attempt the law of consecration right now, or plural marriage, how many temples are needed, do we need to be reminded of a particular gospel principle, and which ones???? Why do we have both written scriptures from old prophets and new words from the Lord from current prophets? All things are established by two or three witnesses. The prophets are also witnesses. We are taught gospel principles by each one. Sometimes, because of language barriers, or misunderstanding between communication styles, or loss of records, we can loose pieces of the explanation of a gospel principle from that prophet. If we read other scriptures, as well as gospel principles taught by current prophets, our understanding is enlightened. Take the recent definition of seer for example, if we stick with one scripture on the topic we get one definiton, but that is only one witness, we need 2 or 3 to establish an understanding of it. If we include records of other seers (say in the Pearl of Great Price) we see more about seers and what they do. We have done the searching part of gospel learning. Then we need to ponder, and follow up with prayer to include a personal witness of it.

Moroni's promise says to ask if it is NOT true Read these things and ask if they are NOT true. 3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how amerciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and bponder it in your chearts. 4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would aask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not btrue; and if ye shall ask with a csincere heart, with dreal intent, having efaith in Christ, he will fmanifest the gtruth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. 5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may aknow the btruth of all things. 6 And whatsoever thing is good is just and true; wherefore, nothing that is good denieth the Christ, but acknowledgeth that he is. 7 And ye may aknow that he is, by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore I would exhort you that ye deny not the power of God; for he worketh by power, baccording to the faith of the children of men, the same today and tomorrow, and forever. Moroni 10* That whole section. Asking is not enough, an answer is conditional upon you. You have to keep your part of the bargain. There are a lot of steps listed there. Some I can pick out are 1. If it is wisdom in God that you should read these things, you should read them 2. Remember how God has been merciful unto the children of men from Adam right up to your present 3. ponder it in your heart 4. Receive these things. Accept them! Make the choice to accept them. 5. Ask God, the Eternal Father in the 6. name of Jesus Christ 7. If they are not true 8. Having a sincere heart 9. With real intent 10. Having Faith in Christ 11. He will manifest it to you by the Holy Ghost, and you are still not done! 12. you will acknowledge that Christ is, don't just believe silently, acknowledge that He IS and that this work acknowledges that He is 13. Deny not the power of God, accept what happend as an answer from God There is a whole lot of humility in there....and a LOT of steps, it's easy to miss one.