classylady

And, a good many people do worry about this. There are a lot of divorced members who have been previously sealed to their first spouse. Then the woman remarries civilly. She and her second husband have a child. Later when the couple decide to go to the temple to be sealed, it can be quite a shock to them to find out their child is already BIC if they don't understand this principle.

Oh my. I didn't catch the whole pun at first. Waist!!! lol

I will be there with my husband.

On my mission in Germany, whenever a missionary was transferred, they traveled alone on the train.

Children that are BIC or sealed to their parents have the promise of Eternal parentage.

We are all born with the Light of Christ. And, when we sin, we are going against that Light. We will all be held accountable for going against the Light. What is so difficult about being a member of the church? I don't know of any society or church, for that matter, that condones lying, stealing, dishonoring parents, adultery, bad behavior, drunkenness, bearing false witness, etc. None of those behaviors brings happiness. And, bringing a child into the world outside of marriage does not give that child the best future. Does our church have "extra" commandments? There is the Word of Wisdom. But, I don't see that as an additional burden. If I have never tried alcohol or recreational drugs because of the Word of Wisdom, I will never have to worry about becoming an alcoholic or an addict. I don't have to worry about being pulled over for driving under the influence. To me, that is a blessing not a burden. And, then there's tithing. Are we the only church that tithes? No. And some churches may not actually tithe, but they still expect donations or they pass-around-the-plate. Plus, I do not want to forego the blessings of keeping those commandments. We are promised blessings by obeying the Word of Wisdom and paying our tithing! I want those blessings. And for me, the greatest blessing of belonging to this church is the comfort of knowing the Plan of Salvation. I know where I have come from, I know why I am here, and I know where I am going after death. For those who have lost a loved one to death, that is perhaps the greatest comfort of all. I know I will see my deceased loved ones again. And, I know that we won't just be some sort of nebulous being sitting on a cloud playing a harp after death. I know that husband and wife can be eternal. This brings me such comfort and joy. I would not trade that knowledge for anything!!!

Thanks, Vort and MOE. I was thinking about this some more, and I believe you're right. Pale, as long as the mother has been at one time sealed, and then has not been excommunicated, had her name removed from the church, or had her sealing cancelled, all her children are considered BIC. She could even have a child out-of-wedlock, or even in this scenario where the second husband is a nonmember, her children are still considered BIC. Edit: And for a little more clarification: If a man that has been sealed to his first wife, and then divorces or is widowed, and then he marries civilly (not sealed) to a second wife, (and the second wife has never been sealed to a previous husband), any of his children with the second wife will not be BIC.

Of course I'm not a man or husband but, IMO, I think that bringing it to his attention was probably the right thing to do. He is now aware of it, while as before, he may not have even really been truly conscious about what he was doing. Now, he can work on improving himself.

Here's the scenario: John and Mary are sealed in the temple. They get divorced. Mary then marries Sam, who is not a member of the church. She and Sam have a child together, and the child is considered Born in the Covenant (BIC) because the sealing between Mary and John has not been cancelled. Now, a couple of years later, Mary's ex husband John is excommunicated. Mary and her current husband Sam still have not been sealed together, but they have another child. Is this second child that is born after John's excommunication considered BIC, or because of John's excommunication, is the child born out of the covenant? Now, furthering the scenario: John is rebaptized and has his temple blessings restored. Mary and Sam have a third child after John's temple blessings have been restored. This third child--BIC? What my understanding is: Child number one is BIC. Child number two, I'm not sure, but I don't think BIC. I could be wrong. Child number three is BIC. What's your understanding?

Yo-Yo Ma

Matthew 24: 24. "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." In our modern culture with access to the internet, blogs, news articles, websites, youtube, etc. we have access to listen to and read many teachings of false prophets, false teachers, false christs, and so forth. How are we to know what is false and what is true? For some of the material we see and read may be scripture mingled with false teachings. What if you read or hear something that twists church history or the early prophets and it gets you questioning? It's my belief that the foundation of our testimony must be based on Jesus Christ. It cannot be based on our parent's testimonies, our missionary that converted us, our spouse, or on any specific teaching. For example, what if your testimony of the gospel is based on the temple. At some point in the future perhaps some of the wording is taken out or changed. Would that shake your faith? How about if your testimony is based on Joseph Smith, and you are unfamiliar with church history? Then, you read the articles posted by the Church about Joseph and some of the methods he used to translate the Book of Mormon. Will your faith be shaken? Or perhaps you love the current prophet. What if you find out he has alzheimers? Will you still believe? What if you perceive your bishop as being dishonest or unkind? Will that make you question the truthfulness of the gospel? Again, our testimony must be based and have its foundation on Jesus Christ. If you know that Christ is the head of the church, then your testimony won't be shaken. If the Spirit witnessed to you of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon, which is a second testament of Jesus Christ, then you will know that Joseph Smith was called of God to restore the Gospel here upon the earth. If the Spirit has witnessed to you that after Joseph Smith's death, that the mantle of the prophet was placed on Brigham Young, and each succeeding President of the Church, you will know that this is Christ's church. You must have that Spiritual witness. And then have faith that the Lord will not allow His Prophets to lead the church astray. I have received that witness, and I am so grateful because I am not swayed whenever I hear false teachings. And, I am deeply saddened when a loved one falls away, and I am reminded that the very elect will be deceived. Matthew 24: 40-42. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. How can we work towards being the one that is caught up and not burned? That is what I strive for. And another scripture comes to mind. I love 1 Corinthians 13: "1. Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing…. 13. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity." And now to tie everything together about doctrine vs. our covenants, according to classylady: IMO, we can understand all the mysteries, have all the knowledge of the doctrine, we can make all the covenants necessary to obtain salvation, but if we do not have charity, it profiteth us nothing. We may give our all to the poor and needy, but have not charity, it profiteth us nothing, and how can Zion be established? We might listen to blogs and read material that we think is bringing us closer to God, and think we know the will of the Father and understand His mysteries, but if we don't listen to the Spirit, we can be deceived. And, then it profiteth us nothing. We may think we have a testimony, but then the rains come, and then our house that is built upon the sand, and not upon the rock--our Savior, will wash away, and it profiteth us nothing. I think I better learn what charity is and become that type of person. And, hopefully, I will be caught up and not burned.

Vort, I don't completely know the answer to your question. But, I do know that there is a degree of difference between excommunication and a sealing cancellation. With excommunication, the sealing is revoked. Maybe another term could be "inert", but that word doesn't quite explain it either. If the excommunicated person repents, is rebaptized, then the temple blessings can be restored through the ordinance of restoration of blessings. There is no need to have the sealing redone. And, the spouse of an excommunicated person does not lose their sealing blessings. With a cancellation of sealing, both parties lose the blessings of that sealing. Let's say, for example, a couple divorces. They have the sealing cancelled. After a number of years pass, they are both single again through divorce, and they decide to remarry. If they choose to be sealed, they would have to go to the temple again and have a new temple sealing. There is no restoration of blessings in that case.

Also, something to think about: Being born in the covenant depends on the mother being sealed to a husband. If the child is born after the sealing of mother and father, it is born in the covenant. If that child is born of that mother in another later marriage, it is born in the covenant as long as the mother has not been excommunicated or requested her name to be removed from church records or had her sealing cancelled. Even, if she is not sealed to her second husband, that child would be born in the covenant. If the mother is excommunicated or has her name removed or had her sealing cancelled, any children born after that time are not born in the covenant. The same does not hold true for a man. For example, if after being sealed, then a divorce or death occurs, and the man remarries, but is not sealed to his second wife, any subsequent children would not be born in the covenant if the second wife had never been sealed before. Now, if she was still sealed to a previous husband, then the child would be born in the covenant.

I love visiting the Seattle area. It is beautiful! I love the trees. Living here in Utah, the desert, it's always a treat to visit an area that is so green. I'm looking forward to going out to visit the grandkids in April. They live in the Maple Valley, Covington, Black Diamond area, though, their house is actually located in Kent. While I'm there I usually make it to Federal Way and Des Moines to visit other family and acquaintances.

lol Yes, I guess so. I was thinking more along the lines, she did not write several paragraphs of her side of the story. She just penned "no issues" on the information letter that the Bishop had sent her, and mailed that copy back.

Talking about Toiletten reminded me that when I bring someone to Germany with me, who has never been there before, I need to explain to them that the public facilities are not always free. They need a few coins to get in. It's always a surprise to them. I know that not all facilities require payment, but many of them do. So be prepared!

Last year, during one of our fifth Sunday combined meetings, the bishop had several knowledgeable people in the ward answer questions that some people struggled with. They were given the question prior to the lesson, and then they researched it and answered it. I can't remember all the questions. But, I do remember one was on Joseph Smith and how he translated the Book of Mormon with specific reference to the hat, etc. Another question was on Joseph Smith's polygamy. I think one question was about the Book of Abraham. It was informative, and done in a manner that was conducive to the Spirit. This was done before the Church published the articles. I think our Bishop is very pro-active in this area, and I appreciate it.

With my husband, everything the Bishop needed was on line. But, it still took time.

I'm sorry Anatess. That is hard.

If you are divorced, and want a sealing cancellation, (the word Temple divorce is sometimes used in lieu of Sealing Cancellation, but the correct terminology is Sealing Cancellation), you will need to speak to your Bishop. You will need to write a letter explaining the particulars of the divorce, if there's any child support that you owe, and a few other particulars that the Bishop will let you know that needs to be specified in the letter. Then the Bishop writes a letter to the ex, asking for their explanation of the divorce, if there's any past child support that is due them, etc. Then everything is sent to the Stake President. With my husband's request for a sealing cancellation, he also had a meeting with the Stake President. Then everything was sent into the First Presidency. My husband got his reply from the First Presidency within three weeks. Everything else, took quite a lot of time, as the Bishop wasn't sure what to do. He was new.

As long as the excommunicated member remains excommunicated, the sealing is not valid. But, if the ex should be re-baptized, and later have the temple ordinances restored, the sealing ordinance would be in effect. (That does not mean you automatically would be with each other in the Celestial Kingdom). And, in order for a woman to be sealed to a different spouse, she would need the sealing cancelled, even if her ex is excommunicated. My husband recently had his sealing to his ex-wife cancelled. She was excommunicated over 35 years ago, and has never returned to the church. A letter was requested from her. She chose not to write a letter, but just wrote "no issues" on the letter she received from our Bishop, and sent that back. If there is no response, that does not stop the sealing cancellation process. It will still be processed, but without the letter.

It's been awhile since I read the New Testament, so I chose that particular book of scripture to study this year. I haven't gotten very far in it, but my testimony of Jesus Christ has been renewed and strengthened. What a powerful testament of Jesus Christ! I mention this, because I see so many people nowadays who no longer have a belief in Jesus Christ as our Savior and Redeemer. And for many people in the world, the Bible is the only book of scripture they have that testifies of Jesus Christ. I feel testimony of the church really comes down to Christ being the foundation of our testimony and church. Because Christ is my foundation, and I know it is His church, I feel my testimony is that much stronger. Is this Joseph Smith's church? Brigham Young's church? Thomas S. Monson's church? No. They are prophets of Christ's church. If I know that Christ is at the head, and after reading the Book of Mormon, and getting an answer to the divinity of that work, I also know that Joseph Smith was chosen to be the latter-day prophet who brought the restoration of Christ's church back. So, as people listen to John Dehlin and others, and are swayed away from the church, I wonder: where was their foundation? Was it in their parent's belief? Was it in the missionary who helped convert them? Was it in the Bishop or Stake President? Was it in Joseph Smith? etc. In my mind, if their foundation is in Jesus Christ, and they know that this is His church, they will not be so easily swayed. And I am saddened, because we know that some of the very elect will be deceived.

I read the original post along with some of the replies to my husband and asked his opinion. He feels that the only time a husband is allowed a double-take when noticing an attractive woman, is if his wife points out the woman to him. I agree with what Eowyn says. We may have those natural-man weaknesses, but it does not make it okay to indulge. To the OP: I married a divorced man. I had a lot of questions that I buried and did not ask for about 25 years. I knew a lot of stuff that had gone on in his prior marriage because of photos and videos I had seen because we have a transparent marriage. He had shown me every photo of his past, plus I have scanned them all for my two step-children. There were some pretty risqué images. (Those were not given to the step kids). We know each other's passwords, we read each others emails and Facebook entries. It's not because we are snooping but because we share most everything with each other. But, I had some unanswered questions that I needed to know, and I was too afraid to ask because I didn't want to rock-the-boat. It got to the point where it was more important to me to know the truth, even if it would be hurtful, rather than always wondering. I eventually had a meltdown, and finally asked my husband some really hard questions that I needed to know the answers to. Of course, my husband was thrown off-guard. And it had been so long since his divorce he simply couldn't remember everything. But, he answered everything he could. And it has helped me tremendously with my insecurities in our marriage. But, you know what? If the answers hadn't helped, but were hurtful to me, I would much rather know the truth than live in a fantasy. You know what I mean? It took me a loooong time to get up the courage to ask. And, as I said I pretty much had a breakdown before I could ask. My mental and emotional health needed some questions answered. I'm grateful I have a husband who was transparent with me and would answer my questions honestly. Not all the answers were what I wanted to hear, but it still helped so much. I feel, if you have questions, it should be okay to ask. But. then, if you're not ready to hear the answers, maybe you should wait? I would just hate to see you have the emotional breakdown I had.

PolarVortex, herbal tea is okay. It is not derived from the tea plant.