Crash

Here's my once-in-a-long-time-since-posting response to this entire thread: 1. Homosexuality is a sin (are we all agreed upon that?) 2. The church does NOT need more sinners! The church needs more people who want to live sin-free lives. President Nelson made a great remark in GC last month, basically saying that the desire to change and live a sin-free life does not mean that we can live sinful lives because we desire to live differently. Yes, I understand that everyone sins, just in case you think I'm saying that you have to be perfect if you go to church. I'm saying that the statement that we need more sinners is another way of accepting those sins, so the person feels more comfortable and church attendance goes up. Ridiculous. 3. The doctrines of the church are not based upon popularism. 4. Every sin is bad, period. Stop saying that some are more acceptable than others (you know who you are)! 5. The Lord says, "Love thy neighbor" not "Join in thy neighbor's sin, so you can be more accepting." For crying out loud! See my #1 response. Nothing I do will ever celebrate this sin. We are to avoid the very appearance of sin, so stop saying that I have to go to my friend's, son's, daughter's, cousin's, whatever, gay wedding so appear to be more accepting and loving. No, Jesus would not do it either. If I recall, he got quite upset at the money-changers in the temple. 6. In America, we have the right to speak freely, so stop citing stupid facts about what is acceptable or not acceptable to say in other countries. 7. If you disagree with anything I wrote, I'll call you a bully. 8. I could go on but I have better things to do than to argue about being more accepting. And for the record, if anyone says that I'm not being accepting, you have absolutely no knowledge of how well I get along with others. It doesn't mean that I have to accept their stupid choices. 9. Bye.

Kids love to build forts. Get some blankets, boxes, pillows, whatever, and build a fort. It can last for hours! My son likes to read but he LOVES to draw, so I just let him go at it with my printer paper. We've got drawings all over the house and he's started decorating my room with them, too. We also play hide and seek, tag, and acting out Plants vs. Zombies instead of playing the video game.

I made the BIG mistake of not getting to know my wife well enough before we got married. I began noticing things almost right away and she really started treating me horribly and controlling me. She required that I give up friendships to really good people as well as not visiting or having contact with family members (most of us are returned missionaries and married in the temple). One of the things I noticed was that her ex-husband and ex-boyfriend continued to contact her and she never asked them to stop. Both wanted to get back together with her and were merely waiting until she and I divorced, and they expressed as much. Still, she did not stop the communication with them until I asked her to stop it. It took her a couple of weeks but she did. After we separated she started seeing her ex-boyfriend again. A couple of months before our son was born she told me that she needed to go to the doctor to check for an STD. She told me that she lived with one guy for about a year before he told her that he had one, and only when she was going to the doctor did she tell me that she probably had it, too. She later accused me of being the one with the STD. Well, let's just say that that was not possible, if you get my meaning, and she had been with over 100 people (people as in men and women) in her life. Again, something she kept from me. Skip ahead, I divorced her.

A real life frog huntin', duck huntin', fish catchin', campin', use a barrel drum as a smoker redneck! I'd rather live on a farm than in the city. What exactly are you saying?

I start where I always start a book, at the beginning.

Anatess, my opinion of you just jumped tenfold! Antoniette, although I am a man I can totally relate to you. I have never been the type of person to go out and meet a lot of people, though I do meet new people because of my work. I am very much a home-building type of person, like you. I got married when I was 36 but it didn't last long. However, we did have a son and nothing is more important to me than being a father and raising him. I have sacrificed a lot in order to be a stay-at-home dad every other week (I share custody of him). I rarely think about going out because my focus is on my family. It would be great to have a woman like what Anatess wrote about but I wouldn't necessarily be considered the type of man many women in the U.S. are looking for. I have baggage, and many women in the U.S. want a man all to themselves. I guess it might also have something to do with the fact that I have a long beard, too. Anyway, be proactive. Perhaps you could try to meet a member of the church online? I know that cultures are different in other countries, and it sounds like men in Spain are different from men in other places. I'd almost argue that women rule the household in the U.S. At the end of the day, marriage should be a partnership. That's how I look at it.

Hi Dorian. I think that much of what is being discussed goes back to my earlier post about it coming down to the Catholic church or the LDS church. Assume that there was indeed an apostasy, a falling away from truth, and that the Priesthood authority to act in the name of God was taken from the earth after the killing of the 12 apostles and remained that way for a period of time. During this apostasy mankind assumed to know about the nature of God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit despite having no communication with or authority to know such things. Therefore, man's knowledge of truth was lost, altered, and skewed, just as a language is altered or lost if there is a person who no longer speaks it or has contact with others who do. Then God appears to someone on earth, communicates with him, teaches him, and restores His Priesthood authority on earth, giving back to mankind the authority to teach and act in His name. If there was no apostasy, no falling away, then there would be no need for a restoration of the gospel, truth, and authority. If there was an apostasy and a loss of authority then there would absolutely be a need for a restoration. The truth and character of God is not subject to what mainstream Christianity believes versus what Mormons believe. The truth and character of God is what it is. Either you are right and we are wrong or we are right and you are wrong. What Joseph Smith taught, he did so from first-hand experience in seeing God the Father, and his son Jesus Christ as two separate beings. He communicated with them and that would make him much more of an authority on the nature of God, and the origins of His existence than anyone else in at least the last 200 years. He was not old but was just 14 years old and simply wanted to know which church to join, so he prayed, having the promise of being given an answer as written in the Book of James. The beginning of the LDS church originated with that moment of prayer. It simply comes down to whether or not God the Father and His son Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph Smith on that day. If they did not, then we are wrong and your beliefs in God and the Trinity are true. If they did appear to him, then we are right and our beliefs about the Godhead, the nature and origin of God are true. Jesus Christ was not a perfect being before he was born, died, and was resurrected with his body. He was perfect in his authority as the god of the Old Testament, and in his duty to do all that the Father asked. He created the heavens and the earth and He was God but it was not until He was resurrected that he fulfilled all righteousness and the commandments of His Father. But just as He told Peter, no man can know of these things except the Spirit of God confirms that they are so. Hopefully some of that sheds light or helps you understand. :)

Dorian, no offense taken. I will admit getting frustrated when someone says that we believe in a different Jesus Christ or God but I did not get offended by anything you said. It is a good discussion. You are not wrong. As man is, God once was, and as God is, man may become. This doctrine has more meaning behind it, though. I would not lump mainstream Christianity into believing exactly one thing but I would agree that many do believe that. The concept of time is an earthly concept only. For example, the earth took millions of years to form, and the Bible does not say it took 6 days. The KJV, which is the version used by the LDS church, says that God called it the first day, second day, etc. It does not say that it was 24 hours by our accounting. With that in mind, when I said that God was without beginning of days or end of years, only humanity gauges its time, so that statement is true. Furthermore, to all of humankind He is God. He created us and is our father, and He will always be worshipped by us as God forever. On the principle of resurrection, the LDS church teaches that in order to be perfect God the Father does have a spirit in conjunction with a body of flesh and bone. The church teaches that in order for us to reach perfection ourselves, as commanded by Jesus Christ (Be ye therefore perfect even as my Father in heaven is perfect), it is not just about following His commandments but also having a physical body with which we will be resurrected with after the day of judgement. This is at the root of His plan of salvation, and as a side note why the church is vehemently against abortion because it denies the spirit children of our Heavenly Father the right to live on earth as physical beings. We believe that the God of the Old Testament, Jehovah, is Jesus Christ, the literal son of God the Father. The Spirit of God is a term the church uses to reference the Holy Ghost, who does not have a body of flesh and bone, otherwise he would not be able to dwell within us. The Godhead is one in that all three have the exact same goal, mission, desire, etc. If a group of people unite as one that does not mean they all move into one physical body. It means their purpose is the same. It's the same concept with the Godhead. Jesus Christ taught that we are to pray to the Father in His name. He is equal to the Father in that the Father glorifies Jesus above all others, save Himself only, and Jesus is the Lord of this earth. If the Trinity principle is true then you cannot say that He is co-equal to the Father, in which case you argue that they are not the same being but are separate. I'm using the term 'you' in general terms. The church teaches that they are separate, yes. This is one of the fundamental differences between the LDS church and many other Christians, as you pointed out. This founding principle is accounted in the First Vision of Joseph Smith where he saw two personages. One of them addressed Joseph Smith and said, pointing to the other, "This is my beloved Son. Hear Him." When it comes down to it, there are only two Christian religions who can claim that they are directed by God Himself, the Catholic church or the LDS church. If the lineage of Peter continued with the Priesthood of God, as Catholics believe, then there would be no need for a Joseph Smith to restore the Gospel. If priesthood authority was broken, as the LDS church believes, then there would be a need for its restoration on the earth. This is not my statement. It was spoken by a Catholic Bishop at a world religions conference in Salt Lake City in the 1980's. All other Christian churches are broken off of these two churches. So, being LDS, I believe in what our church teaches, that through the restoration of the Gospel we have learned that the nature of God the Father is that He is a perfect and resurrected being, that He has a literal son, Jesus Christ, who is also a perfect resurrected being, and that the Holy Ghost is a spirit, and that all three form the Godhead, each working together to fulfill the Father's plan of salvation for His children. :)

What LDS teaching says that God is not eternally God? All scriptures cite that God is without beginning of days or end of years. He is eternal. No, we do not believe God created the earth out of nothing. All creation follows the same pattern. Science has revealed the events that are necessary to create stars and planets. Earth is no different. That God organized the matter and created the world through His Word is what the church teaches. We believe God, or Jesus, to be a resurrected being of flesh and bone as witnessed by his disciples after he had risen. Resurrection is the joining of the body with the spirit after death but in a perfect state never to be separated again. There is no such thing as the Mormon God. We do not worship a different Jesus Christ or a different God. Our understanding of Christ may be different but He is the same God of this earth. By Him and through Him the earth was made. He died so that we may live, conditional upon our repentance and obedience to His commandments. Christ asked Peter if he knew who He was and Peter said that He was the Christ, the son of the Living God. Christ replied that no man had taught Peter that he was the son of God except God the Father as given through the Holy Ghost. So, as has been expressed already, only God the Father, through the spirit of the Holy Ghost, can anyone come to know that Jesus is the Christ, the Savior of the world, the son of the Living God.

I can totally relate to a LOT in your situation. My ex-wife has NPD to the extreme. She also has Oppositional Defiant Disorder, which made her especially difficult to deal with during our divorce because she wouldn't listen to her attorneys until it became very clear that she was going to likely lose custody of our son. Her first attorney withdrew because he refused to deal with her. Over two years after our divorce has passed and I still deal with her being unreasonable, except now I don't put up with it. Coming from an abusive marriage to a narcissist and having gone through a divorce with a child, there are a few things you need to prepare yourself for. It sounds like you have made up your mind, so I won't bother talking about trying to save your marriage. I would do the same thing you are. I already did the same thing. 1. Be prepared for the fight of your life. Narcissism is all about elevating one's self above EVERYONE else. Once you make the move to divorce, his battle horns will sound because he will feel threatened. There are therapists who refuse to work with narcissists because they do not think anything is wrong with them. You can see this because your husband is not in counseling. He believes he doesn't need it, that YOU are the only one who needs it. My ex-wife did exactly the same thing. Nothing is ever the fault of a narcissist. 2. Be prepared to be accused of things you never did or ever even thought of doing. This is used to tear you down, make you weak, and lessen your will to fight for what is right for you. He will offer no evidence, only heresay. You are a woman and a mother, and although it is unfair, you have the bias of the Court in your favor by default. 3. Be prepared to have your children used against you. Your number one focus should be on them and not trying to hurt your husband. But don't use them against him either. 4. Be prepared for a lengthy divorce process. Hopefully you can get it over quickly but it will not likely be short. Mine took 4 1/2 years. A lady in a former ward of mine, one of the most elegant women I've ever known, had to go through an eight-year divorce from her narcissistic husband. A close friend's daughter took nearly two years to divorce her narcissistic husband. It will NOT be easy. 5. Be prepared to spend a lot of money. Do not force him to pay for the divorce. You pay your share, he pays his, period. My divorce cost almost $20K. Some are less, others are much more. Now for some words of advice: 1. DOCUMENT EVERYTHING!!! Documentation is your greatest tool. It is what gave me the upper hand in my divorce. I cannot stress enough its importance. It does not matter how petty the documentation seems at the time, document everything. If/when you separate, document when he picks up your children for his parent-time. Document when he drops them off or when you pick them up. Document to the minute. If it takes five minutes for him to answer the door, document it. If you have an argument, document it but be truthful in the documentation. Don't try to persuade anyone in your documentation. It should be an unbiased record of facts. 2. Limit your time talking on the phone or in person, especially in front of your children. They should be protected from the divorce at all costs. If any of your children can drive, have them take the others to his place and yours. Use text messaging and emails as much as possible. Why? DOCUMENTATION! If you do talk on the phone, record the conversation. If you live in a state that does not require two-party knowledge of the recording, then record every single conversation. When you talk in person or on the phone it is very easy to get entrapped into a fight. 3. Keep the divorce about your children. Do not focus on his problems or trying to get even for his hurting you. 4. Never give in to anything your are uncomfortable with. Get to know your state's legislative family laws like the back of your hand. Keep a copy of them with you wherever you go, and do not try to extend to yourself more than you, yourself, are allowed. Also, get to know as much as you can about family law in general, particularly how long things take in the courts and the processes, legal terms, etc. 5. Don't rake him over the coals financially. He will be ordered by the Court to pay alimony to you, typically for a length of time equal to your years of marriage (19 years in your case), and he will be ordered to pay child support for your children. Do not ask for more than what your state's laws dictate. Also, don't use his not paying child support or alimony as an excuse to withhold his parent-time with your children. The two are unrelated. 6. If you get into an argument in person while the divorce is going on, do NOT turn your back on him. If he harms you, it will be very bad for him. Most police officers are biased on the side of women but that does not mean it's okay to set him up. That is dishonest and wrong. Make sure you have a witness to almost everything. 7. Be patient. This is probably one of the most important words of advice for you. If your attorney does not call back right away, be patient. If it takes a day, be patient. Two days, be patient. Nobody wins in a divorce except the attorneys but most of them are way over-extended with clients. If you file a motion with the court, he is allowed a certain number of days to respond, then you are given a certain amount of time to respond to his response and petition the Court for a decision. Then the Court is given a certain amount of time to rule on the motion. The whole process for just a motion can be upwards of 60 days. You'll also be required to mediate. I could go on but I believe these are the most important things to consider in your situation. I do feel for you. I've been there and I know almost exactly what you are dealing with.

I can relate. I had never been accused of anything so much as jaywalking until I got divorced. Then I was accused of horrible things, and yet I never once retaliated. Sad that the people who once claimed to love you more than life itself will do everything in their power to destroy you in a divorce, including using your child as a weapon against you.

First, a pornography addiction is not second to murder, unless you are grouping all other types of sins as being second to murder. That spot is reserved for adultery, in the literal sense. Next, you are not the only man or woman in the church with this addiction or temptation. Third, Satan's greatest tool is not temptation but rather discouragement, to make you feel completely worthless. You need some positive influence. Get out of your basement. I went through a very rough patch in my twenties after having three serious breakups with girlfriends. I retreated into my parent's basement, too. I went inactive for several years. A few years later I began doing a lot of service. Nothing gets your mind off of your problems like helping others. I got involved with helping youth, both in the church and coaching track and field. It totally helped me get out of my rut. Find something you can do to help others, something that you enjoy. Lastly, never give up. Read Mosiah, particularly 26:30, I think, which reads, "Yea, as often as my people repent will I forgive them their trespasses against me." It's a great scripture to remember.

Hmmm, except it is part of gospel doctrine that everything, including the earth, was in an immortal state before the fall of Adam, and that all became mortal (would die) as a result. Furthermore, the earth shall become the celestial kingdom after the second coming of Christ and the millennium, meaning that it, too, will be resurrected to a perfect state. So, while everything may not have a soul it did exist in spirit form. But here's the conundrum, which I think is the foundation of this thread, how could there be dinosaur fossils and skeletons, and all other manner of creatures that are millions of years old, exist if everything was only in spirit form before the fall of Adam? This is a perplexing topic when trying to make sense of things we have pure physical evidence that they existed, yet gospel doctrine, which is truth, states that the fall of Adam made everything mortal just a few thousand years ago. The earth's formation took millions of years, but here's a theory: The creation of the earth (the organizing of physical matter by Christ) and the millions of years of evolution to an inhabitable world with ancient life for the later use of mankind, was physical, but as has been suggested lacked spirit. The earth then went through a sort of translation to a spiritual state that prepared for the creation of our first parents. While the translation of the earth put everything into a spiritual state it did not mean that everything physical beforehand would be perfected since there was no spirit in the first place, a necessary element to make something perfect. Hence, fossils and skeletal remains. Or did I just repeat what's been said and I'm pulling feathers out of my hat?

In reality the percentage of young men that marry their pre-mission girlfriends is extremely low, less than 2%. I know you don't want to hear it but that is the reality. I had a companion who had been with over 30 girls before his mission. This was over 20 years ago and the church has since tightened its restrictions on service. Satan will do everything he can to prevent you from serving, even while you are on your mission. My best friend from high school served in the same mission as I did. He was sent home early for doing what you did with your girlfriend with a stake president's daughter. He left his companion in the middle of the night to "go on a date" with her. He did this several times. She was about to enter the MTC, and once there she confessed to her MTC branch president. She was sent home and so was he. It is a very serious thing. The Lord still loves you, and he wants every worthy young man to serve. Do everything it takes to ensure that you do. Nothing, not even marriage to your sweetheart, is more important at this time in your life.

Anything with my son, movies, and fishing.

I completely agree. Remember, Gandalf and Lady Galadriel did not give into the temptation of the Ring of Power. Don't be Boromir.

As has been pointed out, we have revelation to substantiate how long mankind has been on earth, although I was off by 1,000 years. To use the example of a temple recommend is an interesting, albeit confusing, argument to make. If dinosaurs didn't exist then all of the bones and fossils would classify the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the human race. Carbon dating has been substantiated as quite accurate, and we have scientific evidence that homosapiens were on earth as long as 400,000 years ago (Discovery of Oldest DNA Scrambles Human Origins Picture ). Now I don't know anything about these things because I am not a scientist but I am willing to bet there is a lot more about earth's history that we just don't know. I'm sure we'll find out someday.

The tradition of soda's being part of the Word of Wisdom is a Mormonism, things that are interpreted as doctrine but are not. The church's official stance is coffee, tea, alcohol, drugs, and nothing else. Harold B Lee addressed this Mormonism in a book he wrote about Mormonisms. He was fond of Coke, himself. Years ago I drank Pepsi like crazy. The caffeine gave me horrible headaches and I almost always woke up in the morning with one. I stopped drinking it and went to nothing but water, especially while training for track & field and I felt great all the time. Never had another headache. Then, a couple years ago I started drinking Pepsi again, and the headaches returned. So, a couple of months ago I stopped, and so did the headaches. Occasionally I'll have a root beer (A&W) and I will usually get a headache after drinking it. I think now that it has something to do with the sugar and not just caffeine, even though A&W has no caffeine. I get the same kind of headache after eating french toast because we put powdered sugar on them. I'd like to get a Sodastream but only to do root beer, lemonade, and lemon-lime. We don't drink much soda in my house. We've still got 3 liter bottles of different kinds we bought before Christmas that we've hardly touched.

Don't ask me where it is, and I'm too lazy to look it up, but Joseph Smith did make appearances as an angel before the coming of Christ. If I remember correctly it was to Moses.

As members of the church, and as Christians, we have the Bible's record of time, which says that mankind has been on the earth for 6000 years. That doesn't mean the earth is 6000 or 7000 years old. The earth's formation took millions of years, roughly 500 million years ago. Science may be limited to human capacity but do not discount its accuracy on certain things. The star that appeared over Bethlehem the night of Christ's birth didn't appear miraculously at the same time. It had been formed thousands or millions of years before, so that's its light would reach earth at precisely the right moment to coincide with His birth. There is irrefutable evidence that dinosaurs existed on earth, and it is likely that they served a purpose. That they are not spoken of in scripture or by church leaders makes no difference because their existence has nothing to do with our salvation. My opinion is that they were here to contribute to the creation of natural resources, but that's me. We have to realize that science does some things extremely well. If we believe that the dinosaur bones and fossils were transplanted here by some other planet, as I saw someone post, then that is pure speculation. Planets are formed by dust particles, not large chunks of matter. The law of heaven still obeys the laws of physics and the universe (ie, the star's creation before Christ's birth). In terms of salvation, dinosaurs don't matter. In terms of science and earth's history, they existed on earth. in terms of entertainment, thank goodness Steven Spielberg made Jurassic Park because it's awesome!

That is true but it's all I've got.

The Court ordered that she be taken off life-support by Monday. The hospital is seeking advice from the district attorney. From the reports I have heard, the child is deformed and has a small chance of survival. It is a slippery slope because she is pregnant. Hopefully, whatever choice is made, it is the right one.

I think this is going off topic. The question was not if we know that much about the pre-mortal existence but if the spirits in the pre-life see what's going on here on earth before coming to it.

Pointing out the sin of homosexuality is not bitter hatred and loathing. Nobody said anything about hating gay people. This thread's intended purpose was to highlight good and decent gay people. The title could have been written differently but the content of the message is that there are good people who happen to be gay. But if we say that homosexuality is a sin, that isn't bitter hatred and loathing. It simply is so, as has been written as such throughout the scriptures.

I said in another thread that I am not that spiritual, though I do have a strong testimony of the church. I do watch Game of Thrones, watched Breaking Bad, and I watch The Walking Dead. That said, I HATE the violence and gore in these shows. I've considered not watching them anymore because of it. I think the principle behind what we choose to watch is that if it doesn't invite the Spirit to be with you, it is probably not a good idea to watch it. It is about the Holy Ghost's ability to speak to and prompt church members. As an adult, I can discern between good and bad quite well but I will never allow my son to watch such things. His mother excoriated me for letting him watch Poltergeist even though he loved it and wasn't scared. Children can't discern between good and bad as well, and I have found that even though things might not affect me that much, except the gore parts (I think those are unnecessary), children will see them and be affected by them differently. That is my take on it, anyway.