omegaseamaster75
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Posts posted by omegaseamaster75
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This is always a hard topic to discuss because of the variety of responses that you will get. First I would like to add to what other have said. Don't beat yourself up over this. I do not want to minimize your guilt or feeling of having sinned but in the wide spectrum of sins at this point in your life this is pretty minor.
https://www.lds.org/youth/for-the-strength-of-youth/sexual-purity?lang=eng
The link is for the strength of youth manual, of note is that masturbation is not mentioned in it. You can read between the lines if you want and I am sure some on this forum will, but the topic of "self abuse" is no longer included in current curriculum.
All this said if you feel bad about it see your Bishop. If he has issues keeping his mouth shut see the Stake President, look up his executive secretary and make an appointment. Ultimately you need to get yourself in a frame of mind were you are not beating yourself up over this.
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I'm sure I'll get a lot of different opinions on this, which is great, I'd love to hear them. Long story short. I'll be meeting The Walking Dead's, Norman Reedus, and I'm wanting to pose a staged kiss for my photo-op. My friends like the idea but there's been an opinion that it's super inappropriate. Really? I can totally separate reality from "not real", and this, isn't real. It's all done in fun, nothing more. I see little difference from a married actor kissing his on-stage or on-screen costar. None of it's real :) What's your opinion?
If your husband is ok with it I don't really see a problem.
It's not real life.
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I agree fundamentally, who knows when he would have died. The practice of polygamy was very trying for many members of the church inclusive of its leaders, and William Law was not the first to think the JS had lost his way.
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TFP, if your local or stake leaders believe that your asking these questions lead members to question their faith, or worse leave, they will invite you to come in and give an accounting of yourself. Just because it is true doesn't mean it is useful. Shake some members testimonies and the leaders will pretty quickly act to protect the good name of the church.
These will be yes and no questions, I will document the response and decline to engage in further conversation about the subject.
I will point them to the church website references if they want to.
I have my suspicions about how this will go. I think that most members have their head in the sand about the specifics of church history.
I am curious to see if my theory is correct
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Good point.
omegaseamaster75, I propose we change question 1 to:
1. Did you know that JS was sealed women who were already married?
will do
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And do these:
"did you know that JS was in Carthage jail on charges that he ordered the destruction of a printing press?"
"did you know he had the press destroyed because it printed that he practiced polygamy?"
I hear people say that he was martyred for the BoM or some other reason. He was martyred for polygamy.
Over simplification, he was martyred because he was the leader of the mormon church by people who hated him and his religion. JS destruction of the printing press gave them the pretext to kill him. The "mob" had plenty of other opportunities to kill him prior to this but his life had been spared up to that point.
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Well, that convinces me then.
I am curious. How about we run a test over the next couple of weeks just for fun. Choose 100 random people in your ward and ask them point blank if they were aware of Joseph Smith's wives prior to the church essays. (The recent release of the church essays is a great way to bring it up). I'll do the same. Record their yes or no responses. I'll do the same. Then we'll compare notes.
I think everyone is aware of his prior wives on some level or other. What is missing is the prolific number of women he married, the number of women married to other men, his hiding of marriages from his wife Emma.
Individually these statements sound scandalous on the surface and I suspect many members would/will be shocked
I will ask 100 members of my ward these questions and record their answers
1. Did you know that JS married women who were already married?
2. Did you know he hid some of his marriages from his wife Emma?
I am sure I could develop more questions, but these 2 will do.
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Hierarchy of priorities....were should sex fall? say between 1 and 5
It is in the top 5 right?
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Our levels of proof will be thorough our own experiences. I know that if I go into relief society and ask the group who was Eliza R Snows first husband I would be shocked if 2 people knew (the RS pres knows because I told her) and she was surprised.
Before the Essays how many in your ward knew how prolific JS plural marriages were? sure the info is out there but it is not common knowledge. Or why are we not taught how JS really "translated" the Book of Mormon.
Survey some members in your ward and be prepared to be shocked by the lack of knowledge of church history and the formation of our religion.
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Like I said we seem to be misunderstanding each other consistently, which means we're not communicating, which means we're going in circles, which leads me to not really want to continue.
omegaseamaster75 contends I'm dealing in absolutes. Yet to me, there is a clear and distinctive difference that takes wisdom and understanding to see the line where the actions of a spouse are truly dangerous and when the actions of a spouse are the typical weaknesses of mortality that require patience, long-suffering, and endurance. And it is not absolute at all. To put feeling abused because of a spouse's weak libido into the same class as a spouse punching you in the face is creating absolutes. They are different. Every circumstance is different. Every motivation is different. Every marriage is different. That is the core of my contention, which you and others seem to either not understand or are ignoring in favor of debate. All abuse is not equal. Some should be responded to with long-suffering, some should be responded to with flight, and some should be responded to with the sword.
When you take my ideas and caricaturize them into absolutes, and then accuse me of dealing in absolutes and faulty logic, then how can I respond in any other than by walking away?
By very definition, yes it does.
The question is simply, when is a selfish act acceptable?
would you classify lack of performance of marital duties as a form of abuse? I say yes. It implies a lack of caring for the other spouses feelings and needs. Yes needs. Everyone has needs spiritual and physical. Some would argue that abuse suffered that is not "physical" in nature is just as bad as getting slapped around by your spouse.
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I think what I see in the thread is that someone will make a statement, and it is turned around on them. As being selfish, or all about me, or implying that there maybe underlying reasons for lack of fulfillment of marital duties.
I agree, that you agree in principle in justifiable divorce. It seems to ME and I may be very wrong please correct me if I am, but you are viewing other statements through your prism of what is and is not acceptable and responding as such.
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Although this is a completely accurate statement, it strikes me that most people's views of Joseph Smith's flaws are probably inaccurate. We really don't have any idea what Joseph's flaws were and were not. I mean, I have my ideas. You have yours. Etc. But as likely as not, we're both wrong.
Probably we will disagree on what his flaws were/are.
One thing we can agree on is that he did have them. I think a large portion of the membership lives in a bubble that is very easy to prick and pop.
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Really what? I asked a question. A yes/no question nonetheless.
So...your answer is "yes".
Okay.
Still, I have to go back to the selfish thing. If she isn't making reasonable compromises to fulfill me, to enrich me, to make me happy, me, me, me, then I'm outta here!
It is difficult to have a conversation with someone who deals in absolutes.
There are very, very few absolutes in this life.
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I'm not sure I follow. Are you suggesting that Brigham wasn't living up to his marital duties?
Really? he had 55 wives, children with 16 of them and was the leader of the church and territory of Utah....Physical time constraints dictate that he could not possibly have lived up to his marital duties. However that is not relevant to the current conversation.
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Right. But here's a question for you and others who see it this way (and I don't necessarily disagree)...
What about injury, disease, libido problems, etc.? Do they justify leaving because of the resulting lack of sex? And if not, how do we determine the root cause of the sexless situation? How do we know that the spouse who is not engaging isn't dealing with some sort of issue beyond their own choices? How do we know there isn't a chemical imbalance, a physical impairment, a mental or emotional disability, etc.?
Obviously the items you have outlined do not create a valid reason for divorce. Physical/mental impairments aside what viable excuse could there be?
If we go back to the OP, and I give everything we are told a 50% discount because we are only hearing one side of the story. IF and that's a big IF we assume that the OP is innocent and the spouse does not want to and has no desire to fulfill marital obligations (assuming no medical or psychological reasons) then I say the OP has a case.
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That doesn't mean anything though. You'd have to show that Brigham Young chose to divorce those 10 times. His wives leaving him doesn't mean he supported divorce. We all know that Brigham and the church through it's history have allowed divorce. That's significantly different than supporting it.
His wives may have chosen to leave him, how is that different from choosing to leave your spouse for failure to fulfill marital duties? -
This is interesting. I wonder if he was consciously and purposefully alluding to sex when he said "marriage responsibilities".
We cannot know, I think however the way it was worded one "might" interpret it that way. I view sexual relations as a marriage responsibility.
- jerome1232 and auzziegirl
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For the record Brigham Young was divorced more than ten times.
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Some quotes from Dallin H Oaks:
There are many good Church members who have been divorced. I speak first to them. We know that many of you are innocent victims—members whose former spouses persistently betrayed sacred covenants or abandoned or refused to perform marriage responsibilities for an extended period. Members who have experienced such abuse have firsthand knowledge of circumstances worse than divorce.When a marriage is dead and beyond hope of resuscitation, it is needful to have a means to end it.Latter-day Saint spouses should do all within their power to preserve their marriages.The meat and potatoes of the talk is that we should not get divorced.I have never contemplated divorce, however it is not off the plate. If my wife were to commit one of the three A's I would be gone. -
As of now, there are 3 people/families in our ward, all born and raised in the Church, who has left the church claiming "they didn't know about JS history of polygamy" and that they felt they were "consciously deceived by the church" because they weren't taught this history from the pulpit...
One was an RM and was the Ward Mission Leader and his wife the YW Pres. The other is in the EQ Presidency and his wife in the Primary Presidency. The other is the wife of a member of the bishopric.
I still cannot grasp the idea that somebody born in the Church doesn't know anything about JS polygamy... I mean, it's only in D&C... wouldn't you be curious as to who these women are that he married?
I would be interested to know if this is a result of the essays. If it is to me it sounds like a cop out. They were never committed and this provided the excuse needed.
The other side of the coin is that as a life long member we are not taught about the life of JS. From his birth to his death we are only taught the "good" things about the man. From his youth to the translation of the book of Mormon which is not taught correctly, to the real reason behind his incarceration in Carthage and his death. The information is not hidden but you need to look for it and verify your sources.
When I look at JS I look at the person as a whole, JS was a man of many flaws as we all are. Even with all of his mortal flaws he was still able to accomplish great things.
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If I wear a white shirt every Sunday am I more valiant than say if I wear a pink shirt?
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Clearly the rule have softened up a little bit, I personally wouldn't sweat it if it was me, I'd let the Lord sort it out.
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He asked for a citation of the statistic that 1 in 3 women were victims of sexual abuse. Nothing more, he went on to say If one's spouse has that in her (or his) past, it can easily make even the thought a marital relations a nightmare, and some serious therapy is needed.
- auzziegirl and jerome1232
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Strong enough to go to church alone?
in Marriage and Relationship Advice
Posted
I don't want to be the negative Nancy on this one but this is why as an LDS you should not marry non members as a general rule. I am sure that you husband is a great guy and I truly hope that he can convert and become a great addition to our church. The odds of this however are very slim. Most lifetime or long time members lose perspective of how difficult it is to be LDS, Especially a LDS male.
In response to your question you should go and make every effort to be a good example and active member.