askandanswer

I think that we all belong to God and He can do with us as He will. Sometimes He acts directly, sometimes He acts through others. 

I think that we all belong to God and He can do with us as He will. Sometimes He acts directly, sometimes He acts through others. 

It seems that there may be some participating in this discussion who are of the belief that its ok for a judge to order a death, and then order an executioner to carry out that execution, but that its not ok for God to order a death and instruct one of His children to carry out that order. That's a hard position for me to understand. I agree with what Peter said in Acts 5:29 - We ought to obey God rather than men.

Gator, where is your faith? . God released all of these prophets and missionaries from prison except Abinada 
Mosiah 17:5  And it came to pass that the king caused that his guards should surround Abinadi and take him; and they bound him and cast him into prison.
Genesis 39:20  And Joseph's master took him, and put him into the prison, a place where the king's prisoners were bound: and he was there in the prison.
Jeremiah 37:21  Then Zedekiah the king commanded that they should commit Jeremiah into the court of the prison, and that they should give him daily a piece of bread out of the bakers' street, until all the bread in the city were spent.  Thus Jeremiah remained in the court of the prison
Alma 21:13  Nevertheless, Aaron and a certain number of his brethren were taken and cast into prison, and the remainder of them fled out of the land of Middoni unto the regions round about.
3rd Nephi 28:19  And they were cast into prison by them who did not belong to the church.  And the prisons could not hold them, for they were rent in twain.
4th Nephi 1:30  Therefore they did exercise power and authority over the disciples of Jesus who did tarry with them, and they did cast them into prison; but by the power of the word of God, which was in them, the prisons were rent in twain, and they went forth doing mighty miracles among them.
Alma 14:17  And it came to pass that Alma and Amulek answered him nothing; and he smote them again, and delivered them to the officers to be cast into prison.
28 And Alma and Amulek came forth out of the prison, and they were not hurt; for the Lord had granted unto them power, according to their faith which was in Christ.  And they straightway came forth out of the prison; and they were loosed from their bands; and the prison had fallen to the earth, and every soul within the walls thereof, save it were Alma and Amulek, was slain; and they straightway came forth into the city.

There seems to be an underlying belief in this thread that death is a bad thing. As I mentioned earlier, I'm not sure if that's how God views it. In some ways, death is like birth - both are nothing more than a transfer from one form of life to another. Why should we think it wrong or bad if God chooses to involve Himself in that process? True, when a person dies, there may be grief and mourning by those who are left behind, but for the person who dies, he is simply leaving his family and friends who are still alive and going to be reunited with those who have already died. I think it might be helpful to adjust our perspective and to look beyond our usual temporal, earth bound view. 

You just haven't seen it performed correctly.  
 

Oh the ammunition you just gave me...

Having said that, I should also say that I admire and respect the care and diligence, the time and work, and the mental effort you are putting into this. I hope that your study of the gospel will be one of those occasions where the more you put into something, the more you get out of it. I'm very confident that if pursued to the end, the outcome will enormously exceed your inputs. 

You're going to get what you need most through prayer and the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, rather than study, although study helps a lot. I can't help wondering if you haven't already received what you need through prayer and the Holy Ghost, but just haven't quite acted on it yet or responded to it in the preferred manner? 

Gator, where is your faith? . God released all of these prophets and missionaries from prison except Abinada 
Mosiah 17:5  And it came to pass that the king caused that his guards should surround Abinadi and take him; and they bound him and cast him into prison.
Genesis 39:20  And Joseph's master took him, and put him into the prison, a place where the king's prisoners were bound: and he was there in the prison.
Jeremiah 37:21  Then Zedekiah the king commanded that they should commit Jeremiah into the court of the prison, and that they should give him daily a piece of bread out of the bakers' street, until all the bread in the city were spent.  Thus Jeremiah remained in the court of the prison
Alma 21:13  Nevertheless, Aaron and a certain number of his brethren were taken and cast into prison, and the remainder of them fled out of the land of Middoni unto the regions round about.
3rd Nephi 28:19  And they were cast into prison by them who did not belong to the church.  And the prisons could not hold them, for they were rent in twain.
4th Nephi 1:30  Therefore they did exercise power and authority over the disciples of Jesus who did tarry with them, and they did cast them into prison; but by the power of the word of God, which was in them, the prisons were rent in twain, and they went forth doing mighty miracles among them.
Alma 14:17  And it came to pass that Alma and Amulek answered him nothing; and he smote them again, and delivered them to the officers to be cast into prison.
28 And Alma and Amulek came forth out of the prison, and they were not hurt; for the Lord had granted unto them power, according to their faith which was in Christ.  And they straightway came forth out of the prison; and they were loosed from their bands; and the prison had fallen to the earth, and every soul within the walls thereof, save it were Alma and Amulek, was slain; and they straightway came forth into the city.

Having said that, I should also say that I admire and respect the care and diligence, the time and work, and the mental effort you are putting into this. I hope that your study of the gospel will be one of those occasions where the more you put into something, the more you get out of it. I'm very confident that if pursued to the end, the outcome will enormously exceed your inputs. 

You're going to get what you need most through prayer and the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, rather than study, although study helps a lot. I can't help wondering if you haven't already received what you need through prayer and the Holy Ghost, but just haven't quite acted on it yet or responded to it in the preferred manner? 

exhausted, exhaling, excellent, then exceedingly excellent, then exhumed (resurrected - See Matt:27:52)  then exalted? 

And they also wear Prada

Maybe.  Maybe I'm duller than others.  I agree that the inspiration comes from the Holy Ghost, but my PERSONAL experience has been the Spirit speaks to me while I'm studying, or more often, talking to the missionaries.  Maybe that's why I stalk them so often and in so many different places.  I need to have a basis for my discussion and prayer, hence the study first.  Then I talk through the roadblocks with someone until I receive inspiration or (more often) just come to accept.  I frustrated the Sisters last night so we tabled our discussion.  They said maybe this is something I need to stick a pin in for later, but I can't do that at this time.  

Gooday @Grunt I've only read bits and pieces of this thread so somebody might have already said this. This https://www.lds.org/ensign/1971/04/the-king-follett-sermon?lang=eng is a link to the King Follett discourse, which is widely regarded as the first public statement by Joseph Smith about the idea that a man can become a god. This discourse is the foundation on which the man to god doctrine is built. Its pretty much the walls and ceilings as well. There's scriptural support for the idea as indicated in @zil's post above, but at this time of night the only one that readily comes to mind for me is 
 (Doctrine and Covenants | Section 84:38)
38  And he that receiveth my Father receiveth my Father's kingdom; therefore all that my Father hath shall be given unto him.
And of course there is always the question of what father (Father) wouldn't want his (His) children to grow up and become like him (Him). 

Gator, where is your faith? . God released all of these prophets and missionaries from prison except Abinada 
Mosiah 17:5  And it came to pass that the king caused that his guards should surround Abinadi and take him; and they bound him and cast him into prison.
Genesis 39:20  And Joseph's master took him, and put him into the prison, a place where the king's prisoners were bound: and he was there in the prison.
Jeremiah 37:21  Then Zedekiah the king commanded that they should commit Jeremiah into the court of the prison, and that they should give him daily a piece of bread out of the bakers' street, until all the bread in the city were spent.  Thus Jeremiah remained in the court of the prison
Alma 21:13  Nevertheless, Aaron and a certain number of his brethren were taken and cast into prison, and the remainder of them fled out of the land of Middoni unto the regions round about.
3rd Nephi 28:19  And they were cast into prison by them who did not belong to the church.  And the prisons could not hold them, for they were rent in twain.
4th Nephi 1:30  Therefore they did exercise power and authority over the disciples of Jesus who did tarry with them, and they did cast them into prison; but by the power of the word of God, which was in them, the prisons were rent in twain, and they went forth doing mighty miracles among them.
Alma 14:17  And it came to pass that Alma and Amulek answered him nothing; and he smote them again, and delivered them to the officers to be cast into prison.
28 And Alma and Amulek came forth out of the prison, and they were not hurt; for the Lord had granted unto them power, according to their faith which was in Christ.  And they straightway came forth out of the prison; and they were loosed from their bands; and the prison had fallen to the earth, and every soul within the walls thereof, save it were Alma and Amulek, was slain; and they straightway came forth into the city.

Let us be clear, since Traveler wants to mix and match - spiritual death is a bad thing.  Temporal death, not necessarily.

There seems to be an underlying belief in this thread that death is a bad thing. As I mentioned earlier, I'm not sure if that's how God views it. In some ways, death is like birth - both are nothing more than a transfer from one form of life to another. Why should we think it wrong or bad if God chooses to involve Himself in that process? True, when a person dies, there may be grief and mourning by those who are left behind, but for the person who dies, he is simply leaving his family and friends who are still alive and going to be reunited with those who have already died. I think it might be helpful to adjust our perspective and to look beyond our usual temporal, earth bound view. 

There seems to be an underlying belief in this thread that death is a bad thing. As I mentioned earlier, I'm not sure if that's how God views it. In some ways, death is like birth - both are nothing more than a transfer from one form of life to another. Why should we think it wrong or bad if God chooses to involve Himself in that process? True, when a person dies, there may be grief and mourning by those who are left behind, but for the person who dies, he is simply leaving his family and friends who are still alive and going to be reunited with those who have already died. I think it might be helpful to adjust our perspective and to look beyond our usual temporal, earth bound view. 

Another way of looking at it is that God perhaps facilitates the transfer of a soul from mortality to immortality. Death is the usual way by which this is done. It may be presumptive to think that the death of an individual is the desired outcome when it might really only be the transfer of that soul to the spirit world that God is really trying to achieve. Having a more eternal perspective than we do, I don't think that God views death in the same way that we do. He did, after all, design and implement a plan, the whole success of which depended upon the death of His Son. 

Another way of looking at it is that God perhaps facilitates the transfer of a soul from mortality to immortality. Death is the usual way by which this is done. It may be presumptive to think that the death of an individual is the desired outcome when it might really only be the transfer of that soul to the spirit world that God is really trying to achieve. Having a more eternal perspective than we do, I don't think that God views death in the same way that we do. He did, after all, design and implement a plan, the whole success of which depended upon the death of His Son. 

8  Yea, if my days could have been in those days, then would my soul have had joy in the righteousness of my brethren.
 
To me, Nephi’s great love for his brethren is illustrated by the sorrow and agony he feels at their wickedness, (vs 6) and the joy he imagines he would feel if he were living among righteous brethren. This shows a true compassion and concern for their eternal well-being. He is not thinking at all about his own condition in these verses. This is the hallmark of a true shepherd, steward and servant, caring more for the safety and wellbeing of their flock rather than themselves.
 
Its possible, but only speculative, that if this Nephi had lived in the times of 1st Nephi, that his effectiveness as an instrument in God’s hands might not have been as great. I’m guessing that much of Nephi’s personal growth and spiritual development came about as a result of the difficulties in which he found himself, specifically the wickedness and hard-heartedness of the people amongst whom he was living and that in the absence of such difficulties, he would not have grown as much as he did. Would he have worked as hard to preach the gospel if he was living amongst people who already had and were living the gospel? Would he have tried as hard to save souls if he was living amongst a people who already had a lot of hard-working effective soul savers? If he was not doing these things, (because they were already being done well by others) would he have reached as much of his potential as he did? We tend to try less in easier times because the need to try harder does not seem to be as great. We grow when we are stretched, and we are more likely to be stretched by hard times than good times.
 Nephi’s yearning expressed here to be in a situation other than the one he is in reminds me of when his great-grandfather expressed a similar yearning, as recorded in Alma 29:1 (Book of Mormon | Alma 29:1 - 3)
1  O THAT I were an angel, and could have the wish of mine heart, that I might go forth and speak with the trump of God, with a voice to shake the earth, and cry repentance unto every people!
Alma responds to his own wish by saying, in verse 3, something which might be equally applicable to Nephi:
(Book of Mormon | Alma 29:3)
3  But behold, I am a man, and do sin in my wish; for I ought to be content with the things which the Lord hath allotted unto me.

No, I don't think you can. That privilege has been permanently claimed by @my two cents One cent, sure, go ahead, three cents is even better, but not two cents.

No, I don't think you can. That privilege has been permanently claimed by @my two cents One cent, sure, go ahead, three cents is even better, but not two cents.