pkstpaul

The one thing we, as a church, do not want to do is to alienate her from her family. We firmly believe in the 10 commandments- including honor thy father and mother.  We do want to make sure she is growing.

I’m trying to appreciate the spirit which motivated the original post – a desire to seek advice on a potentially tricky issue that if mishandled, could lead to pain and anguish for several people. That is certainly a commendable motivation. However, I also feel a little uncomfortable with being asked to provide input on an issue which could be used to facilitate the departure of one person away from what I know to be the one and only true church of Christ on this earth. If the desire is to see her grow in her faith in Christ then it’s probably best to leave her where she is. I sincerely believe that membership and active participation in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, and living in conformity with its’ teachings is the best way to grow faith in Christ. Ideally, in Sunday School and Young Women’s she will regularly encounter experiences designed to help her grow her faith, designed and delivered by men and women called of God.

The fact you are posing the question and torturing youself over the incident says you haven't forgiven yourself. Personnally, opening up to your bishop or wife will only exacerbate the issue. Some things (forgiven sins) you should let go, and if you can't let them go, take them to your grave.  Now, if you were to do it again...differnet story. As your wife, I'd castrate you. :)

I'm a germaphobe so I'm super sceptical about public refreshments and potlucks but it does seem a bit silly to me that a drink or cookie would take away a positive feeling or experience. Of course this is all a matter of opinion, it seems, I don't think there's a wrong or right answer necessarily. I always thought get-togethers post funeral services were a bit odd, in that people sat around and ate - visited - laughed even, right after burying someone in the ground. I dunno, it's a preference thing for sure depending on situation.

Just wanted to update: I have done some scripture reading every day this week and went to church yesterday and I feel so much better, overall. I am making an effort to remind myself that by having a strong faith I am not losing ME I am developing better aspects of myself.
So overall I am feeling better and I do appreciate all the input.

The scripture you mentioned was Matthew 10:37. Just because a bride and groom loves their parents doesn't mean they love God less. Can you show me a scripture where God commands that temple sealings are commanded and any less is a sin against God? That type of a scripture would make Matthew 10:37 fit your argument.
 
Also, if a couple chooses to have a civil wedding and then have their sealing a year later; does not the sealing make everything right with God?
 
My whole argument is that if a temple sealing is the ultimate goal, what does it matter when it happens, it should only matter that it does happen.
 
M.

Talking church stuff and mentioning church stuff isn't exactly the same thing. I'd never not mention stuff, like I was afraid. Ask me what I did last Saturday and the answer will be that I went to the temple, no matter who you are. That's different than discussing religion though. I'm disinclined to discuss religion with people who are bitter and angry about it, and if they're disinclined to be preached to, then what good can come of it? If kids are around all it does is allow them to hear the bitter, angry things being said. I wear my religion on my sleeve. That's different than shoving it in people's faces though.

As hard as it might be for you to understand Leah, the LDS church is pro-marriage between a man and a woman. Not just pro-sealing, pro-marriage. So even though you might think just being married and not sealed is a bad thing, the LDS church does not.
 
Here's a link you can check out to find out LDS member's views of temple weddings without family.
 
http://familyfirstweddings.com/
 
M. 

The year wait does not make any sense, in Mexico they require a civil marriage, and do not recognize the sealing in the temple as legally binding.
 
So people get married civilly on Friday and sealed on Saturday.
 
Someone smarter than me should explain this whole wait for a year thing to me policy.......

My first thought was "no, not so soon!", but I relaxed. Planning is planing, not doing.
 
Here I go with a comment that will surely draw ire amongst those with whom I now fight with in other threads. I hope to justify the comment enough to soothe the argument.
 
You don't need to get "married" in the temple. In fact, in many countries, it is not allowed. You must be married in a civil ceremony before you can go to the temple. This is "fact". Being "married in the temple" is a cultural thing, not legal.
 
I didn't go so far as to say "wait a year after marriage" to get sealed, but I am hearing it from others and frankly am not opposed, because of the number of divorces and annulments I witness.
 
Now, bring on the "do what is right and perfect" comments from the others.

No need to call ahead. Just show up. Prepare a slip of paper with some background on yourself, including callings held. You'll want to provide them your birthdates for them to use when pulling your records. Give it to any member of the bishopric.
 
Good luck. They'll be lucky to have you.

My first thought was "no, not so soon!", but I relaxed. Planning is planing, not doing.
 
Here I go with a comment that will surely draw ire amongst those with whom I now fight with in other threads. I hope to justify the comment enough to soothe the argument.
 
You don't need to get "married" in the temple. In fact, in many countries, it is not allowed. You must be married in a civil ceremony before you can go to the temple. This is "fact". Being "married in the temple" is a cultural thing, not legal.
 
I didn't go so far as to say "wait a year after marriage" to get sealed, but I am hearing it from others and frankly am not opposed, because of the number of divorces and annulments I witness.
 
Now, bring on the "do what is right and perfect" comments from the others.

My first thought was "no, not so soon!", but I relaxed. Planning is planing, not doing.
 
Here I go with a comment that will surely draw ire amongst those with whom I now fight with in other threads. I hope to justify the comment enough to soothe the argument.
 
You don't need to get "married" in the temple. In fact, in many countries, it is not allowed. You must be married in a civil ceremony before you can go to the temple. This is "fact". Being "married in the temple" is a cultural thing, not legal.
 
I didn't go so far as to say "wait a year after marriage" to get sealed, but I am hearing it from others and frankly am not opposed, because of the number of divorces and annulments I witness.
 
Now, bring on the "do what is right and perfect" comments from the others.

Um, yes. That sounds a lot like me. I have had several ideas or questions over the past few weeks that I have considered posting here. I got very close to actually posting three of them, but I copied+pasted what I had written into a document on my desktop instead. One of those questions I actually sent in an email to my grandfather, since I really do need a response to that one. It will take longer to hear back from him than it would if I had just posted about the subject here.. but frankly it was and is just too intimidating to open myself up that much with some of the visitors to this forum. I am not nearly as well-versed in the scriptures or the teachings of former Prophets as I ought to be, but I don't care to have that drawn out as a fault, or have my earnest questions stomped on by those who are on a higher spiritual/intellectual plane than myself.
 
I do not mean that I am not actually wanting to hear those quotes and scriptures - on the contrary they are exactly what I am hoping to receive - the part that concerns me is the tone in which they are delivered. Sometimes it can be very pleasant and informative. But other times you just feel trampled on by a herd of larger and more robust creatures who, when they notice your squashed and worn state, tell you to buck up and adjust your attitude. My grandfather will answer my question at his own slow-typist pace, but I know he will do so with as much wisdom and knowledge AND as much gentleness and patience as the Savior might Himself. 

I almost did a 'like' on one of you comments the other day.  Then I thought...'why start now'.
 
You are a highly intellegent person. You have a great insight into the gospel and the Church. You have a fantatic talent in recalling scripture and history. As I have said in the past, I don't disagree with you on your doctrinal view. I appreciate that you such a strong member of the Church. If I were a leader, I would probably call someone like you as a counselor just to balance me out.
 
I have a complete dislike for the attitude in which you choose to teach us. If I knew you, I'd give Mrs. TFP a metal.

It isn't the points of the arugument that are bullying. It is the unrelentless talking down to people to frustrate them to the point of abondoning the argument. I almost never even read the comments of a half dozen posters to this forum. TFP opened himself up because he 'sought' some understanding as to why we are not united. I am obliging with my 'opinion'. 
 
You, Traveler, are one of the top offenders, so I don't expect you to understand.
 
It is interesting to compare this forum to others. There is far more activity on other forums. There are hundreds of posts per day and thousands of responses. This forum can go a day or two without a new topic posted. I curious as to why. There is a lot of heated discussion on the other forums but perhaps for some reason people don't feel villified there. Just an observation.

It isn't that we don't know or believe the doctrine. The disagreements in the forum are more about to what level of exactness are we expected to carry them out (i.e. perfection). You, and a obvious handful of others, bully people on points where you expect perfection in an answer. You accept nothing but complete surrender that we are all failures because we are not perfect. If only we were more obedient, if only we were more in line.  As I stated earlier, you leave no room for the human experience - the fact that we were born into imperfection and will all likely die in imperfection.
 
I know I worded this harshly; especially to use the word 'bully'. And I know the respose is "show me where I...", but I don't live on this forum, nor do I wish to live for this forum, so no, I will not go searching your history to prove the point. I think others (those of us shouted down) will understand what I am saying.

I almost did a 'like' on one of you comments the other day.  Then I thought...'why start now'.
 
You are a highly intellegent person. You have a great insight into the gospel and the Church. You have a fantatic talent in recalling scripture and history. As I have said in the past, I don't disagree with you on your doctrinal view. I appreciate that you such a strong member of the Church. If I were a leader, I would probably call someone like you as a counselor just to balance me out.
 
I have a complete dislike for the attitude in which you choose to teach us. If I knew you, I'd give Mrs. TFP a metal.

I'm fairly negative toward evangelicals because of the intolerance exhibited by some in deciding who is "Christian".
Mormons obviously don't qualify, being a cult and all. But surprisingly, Catholics don't make the cut either.

Maybe that was my bad, I probably need to do some more studying on the subject. It was my opinionated view that HT is a policy or practice, but not doctrine. Important yes, but not something without which the church would cease to be true. That's kind of the ruler by which I have judged, in my own opinion, which things matter the most and which are most important to take myself or someone else to task for.
 
My husband and I have not had home teachers - have not been home-taught in 6 years. We have been married for 8 years, and have been visited once by anyone besides the Bishopric (on Shepherding Night only.) I took this up on a thread when I first joined this forum. But I have since just learned to just deal with it and also support my husband in his HT efforts no matter what else goes on. If it were a doctrinal issue however, as serious of an issue as tithing monies being misused or someone teaching from disapproved materials at church, then I wouldn't let it rest.

I needed Jane_Doe's perspective to understand your issue. Thanks for confirming that.
 
I have always seen God as part of me and not foreign or controlling. The gospel is part of me. Understanding the gospel is understanding myself. If you are concerned about participation in the Church as controlling your life, maybe my perspective will help.
 
I don't get bogged down in "church" definitions (i.e. I separate church and gospel). The church is a means of administering the gospel and therefore necessary, but I don't define myself by the church. In other words, I don't give in to all the political struggles within a ward. I don't sweat people's perception of if I am a good "Mormon". I seek to be at peace with my participation in the gospel, not church.
 
Having said that... I am a good Mormon. I do fully participate, hold a temple recommend, have a calling, and do my visiting teaching, etc. I do it because it brings me joy and like I said, the Church is where the gospel is administered and I want the Church to be successful. But, I'm not going to let what goes on in a building dictate my happiness or my relationship to Heavenly Father.

I needed Jane_Doe's perspective to understand your issue. Thanks for confirming that.
 
I have always seen God as part of me and not foreign or controlling. The gospel is part of me. Understanding the gospel is understanding myself. If you are concerned about participation in the Church as controlling your life, maybe my perspective will help.
 
I don't get bogged down in "church" definitions (i.e. I separate church and gospel). The church is a means of administering the gospel and therefore necessary, but I don't define myself by the church. In other words, I don't give in to all the political struggles within a ward. I don't sweat people's perception of if I am a good "Mormon". I seek to be at peace with my participation in the gospel, not church.
 
Having said that... I am a good Mormon. I do fully participate, hold a temple recommend, have a calling, and do my visiting teaching, etc. I do it because it brings me joy and like I said, the Church is where the gospel is administered and I want the Church to be successful. But, I'm not going to let what goes on in a building dictate my happiness or my relationship to Heavenly Father.

So glad you shared. I'm trying to convince myself that what I have felt is the same as you, but I'm uncertain. In my shoes, I would see it as fear. I learned "action cures fear", a chapter title of a favorite sales motivation book. I practice it as often as I find myself shrinking away from something I know I should do. It can be as simple as a phone call...'move out of the chair' is the first action that melts the fear of picking up the phone.
 
I think you will find that whatever wall you imagine in front of you will melt away as you move toward it. It is really your only option of reactivating yourself. Get up on Sunday morning and get dressed and move to the car and walk through the church doors. I think you will be pleasantly surprised. People are going to love you. I often suggest inviting over your Relief Society President just to get a feel for the landscape.
 
The culture you face in Florida is far different than many in the forum can imagine. I'm sure the cliques there are far tighter than most wards and people that far out in "the mission field" are often untrained/unskilled in church administration. Still, the gospel is true and people should ignore your absence and welcome you in. Just take that step.  Good luck!

I seldom find disagreement on your interpretation of doctrine. What I find offensive in many of your posts is a complete disregard for the human experience. Your often flippant responses equate to "if you were more godlike, you wouldn't have a problem". Well yes, if we were more godlike we wouldn't have a problem.
 
You seem to completely ignore that we (those of us on Earth) are in a period of growth; many different stages of growth. Some of us are never going to "get it" while during our Earthly stay.
 
I think we are at one heart and mind when the Spirit wishes it to be so. But short of a Pentecostal awakening, we're not all going to have that same level of experience at the same time, even when reading the same doctrine, or hearing the same talk, or saying the same prayer, simply because we have human filters that block or interpret the Spirit. Some of those are even physiological.
 
Your frustration with us being frustrated with you is a matter of you thinking we are lacking. Yes we are, but you could allow people to be wrong and not feel we are lacking for not having the same full understanding as you.  Who knows, maybe someday you will see things the way we do. :)

Howdy all-
Just wanted to say hello. I have been a member of the church for roughly a year and a half-in a lovely ward and generally happy. I am a married stay at home mom on a little farm with 6 kids (ages span 21-2 years).
I do have some questions regarding faith and belief in general and I feel like it would take a novel to really get all the pertinent info in there, :)
Anyway, nice to be here and hi!