Gabelma

I am surprised this has engendered such a discussion tbh - if it is something the First Presidency have decided we need is it really something worth disagreeing with. Could just assume the Lord has a reason forit being in place. -Charley

its so popular in the UK not sure it would be noticed. I thought about using it as a nn for Melody so my daughter would have the choice, but when she arrived she was Elana Charley

Chapel, very small overflow/cultural hall, line of classrooms and offices. Kind of looks like a 'T', with the chapel at the top... Stage two made it look like an 'I', with more classrooms at the bottom. I'm not sure about current day layouts. That is from the old, old days. I grew up in a building that was 'stage 1', we raised the budget for 'stage 2' (I think in those days it was 30% of the cost), and also finished it to save cost. 'Stage 3' usually got the bldg to the typical layout, with large cultural hall w/stage, more classrooms, kitchen, expanded chapel, etc. Again, we had to raise the money and do a lot of work to save on costs. our stage1 ain't that big lol - we don't have a cultural hall we havea multi purpose room that is chapel, cultural hall and can be 3 classrooms, its linear with a classroom that doubles as family history centre, both branch presidents office and kitchen double as classrooms - we have also just had a porta cabin added to give 2 newclassrooms. Charley

For me personally its the moment to remember the atonement and concerntrate on my covenants. Charley

have you room to put his mattress next to your bed? - with me Mum used to leave me with toys and sandwiches and a light i could turn on. At 31 I still don't sleep through the night. If it helps Jesus wouldhave slept with his parents until he was 3or4 -Charley

In the UK LDS buildings are very conspicous in the US they are kind of run of the mill I guess at least in the Western States I have visited. Ours is an old stage 1 building but has lovely grounds some very old trees . These are the cathedrals in the city I grew up in them - I like them better than the really old ones they dont have that oppresive feeling that tells you bad things happened there http://www.liverpoolmetrocathedral.org.uk/tour/tour.html http://www.liverpoolcathedral.org.uk/conte...GreatSpace.aspx The Wigwam style one is my favourite Charley

Is it affecting your faith? How old are you? Have you prayed about it? I really think your relative should talk to the Bishop as it is affecting her recommend. Yes it may be a pain in the neck for him todeal with but better to deal with it now than go inactive over it - I know my Father in Law, and previous Bishops would have at least counselled you to leave it with them and move on. Maybe ask him for a blessing todeal with it. My experience watching what happened in my branch is its best to take the gossip to the Bishop and noone else. Situations like this can kill a unit if allowed to continue, ourswent from a thriving ward to a tiny trouble strewn branch overa period of 20 years - it all started with rumour of affairs in the Bishophric (they were true) all it took was a Stake President who didn't necessarily listen but took note of the spirit in our branch and waswilling to counsel everyone, you know what its now the best unit in the church our primary has gone from one child to around 15 on a good day in under a year. Well over a hundred people have gone inactive as a result of this, itsamazing howmany are now coming back or preparing todo so now. -Charley

Personally I would go and talk to your Bishop or Stake President, tell them the situation, then you can move on and forgive and forget. They are there to counsel you in this situation even without evidence but Iwould approach them with you are looking for advice rather than you are accusing someone. Lay out exactly what you do know. Charley

I went to my buddy's temple marriage, and the ring ceremony right after at a local church building. I personally think it's stupid to have a ring ceremony. Everyone knew they were already married. It was kinda' sad, actually, like they had to act in a play to make people happy. What a joke. Maybe I'll change my tune if I end up marrying a non-member. by that theory my temple sealing would have been an act or pay - my husband an I were already married when we were sealed. A Ring Exchanging is the chance to declare your loveto your friends. I loved both my civil and temple ceremony andboth had their place. Charley

This was our discussion inRS on Sunday and it was beautiful and the spirit was strong. Was wondering what does the word holiness mean to you and how do we practise it?

Only thing is I would point to the parable of the talents. The man with 2 and the man with 5 dd not start or end equal but they did the best with what they were given. We are not all blessed with the same talents and strengths or the same weaknesses Charley

This thinking is seductive, but ultimately unsustainable, imho. God is God. He is good and just. Come the day of Judgement, there will be no objection, second-guessing, or any hint that God has not exercised a perfect mix of justice and mercy. If God's Son says, "You get to my Father and his kingdom through me," then that is how it is. I am certain there will be some obnoxious, allegedly born-again Christians who will be told that their faith was dead, and that Jesus never knew them. Likewise, there will surely be some surprise entries into the Kingdom. Nevertheless, there will be no doubts. Ultimately have read a lot and prayed deeply, spoken to people of many faiths its whatI believe to be true. What I think we do agree on it is not for either of us to second guess the Lord and decide where anyone is going including ourselves - its His decision to make - Charley

Charley,That is one of the kindest, and most profound, posts on this thread. Without going into any detail, I've tried to allude to the fact that I have done everything in my power to know him, but it has not worked. Rather than accept that, people on this board have preached at me, and claimed my disbelief is because of my pride and arrogance, when in fact my heart was broken into a million pieces. Again, my disbelief was not a choice. It was a journey, and ultimately is something I cannot choose to change. It just is. And if, in the end, it turns out there is a Mormon god, I cannot imagine he would punish me for it. Elphaba I believe you - I know when my illness is at its height I don't feel God the same, it is a huge battle to stay connected. You have had many more trials with the Gospel than I have had, personally I find it amazing that you are not a screaming anti Mormon (hate the term but not sure what else to use), many in your position allow hatred to eat them up. I know through blessings when other church members would judge me to be heading straight to outer darkness The Lord has said he is proud of me, and that I am doing the best can with what he has given me, even when I am not Temple Worthy I am not the Lord or even your Bishop - I can't determine your worthiness I certainly cannot determine how well you are doing with what the Lord has given you. That is between the Lord and You. Personally I believe whatever you call HIM the same God answers every prayer and guides every one that lets him. Even someone that doesn't beleive in him has instincts and can be guided I have a confession though the Celestial Kingdom is not my goal - my goal is to be right with My God, and to reach my potential. I do not know yet what my potential is - the Lord does so I need to let him guide me. Beyond that I don't want to be in the Celestial Kingdom if it is above my abilities - however I am in a catch 22 as I know my husband has such a strong amazing spirit (as long as he isn't in Nicompoop mode) - and I know if he doesn't make he will regret it. -Charley I didn't say everyone, Yed.Elphie You are right, you didn't...just wanted that clarified...I have no intention of judging ANYBODY...as we have discussed in the past...I am in no place to throw any stones...in ANY direction!!! Well...have you ever read The Screwtape Letters? I HIGHLY recommend them!!! They are very funny - my favourite though is Pilgrims Regress it describes CS Lewis' own battles he spent his life searching. I also love The Mars Trilogy - Perelandra the middle book is brilliant from an LDS point ofview as it describes a world where a fall didn't happen. I cannot believe that CS Lewis will not be in the Celestial Kingdom. -Charley

It's Charley's husband writing this, yall can call me Gabelpa. I had a question for Sola'lor, as a bit of a Star Wars fan. Have you done any work with Eric Schroeder? He did a lot of research and guessed/improvised the Mandalorian alphabet you use in the Mando'a Language Dictionary. His work on the Mandalorian alphabet. I'm sure George Lucas has his own alphabet master guide and languages. After all KOTOR does have snippets of spoken Mando'a.

I knew it sounded familiar lol I was just coming on to comment because after asking my husband he knew:) IMO the name and the website are very off putting. Charley

Yeah...I gotta admit...I'm kind of a hybrid Mormon, myself!!! I still have some of that indoctrination in me yet....I struggle with confused images of Hell and eternity, But I turned to LDS because I would like to believe in a G-d who forgives until 70x7...and gives ALL people a chance to repent, regardless of whether they did so in life or not... I personally think everyone who has Christ in their heart will recognise him when they see him - there is the lady in the New Testament who was a pagan, had presumably had no teaching in her life of who Christ was but recognised him when she saw him. She was happy to have the crumbs of faith, humble and just trusted in him. Many of Israel who had been taught about the Messiah, did not know him. I personally do not believe that many Latter Day Saints will make it to the Celestial Kingdom, but suspect for us anything that isn't that will be 'hell' I personally think hell is not reaching your potential. CS Lewis wrote a couple of fantastic pieces about hell - The Great Divorce was one (bus journey through the levels of hell), and there was the scene at the end of the Last Battle (Narnia book) where the Dwarves still think they are in the stable in the dark eating turnips, when actually they are in heaven surrounded by a great feast that Aslan has provided. Nobody can convince them otherwise, the Dwarves were for the Dwarves and noone else. Yet the Callorman who had served Tash (Satan) faithfully all his life and had done good, immeidatly recognised Aslan, those that had pretented to serve Aslan but done ill were carried off by Tash. I have always had a strong feeling that that scene was inspired by God, The phrase no Good can be done in Tash's name and no Ill can be done in Aslan's name sticks in my head. Can't help but think we will be surprised who the Lord places were - I just trust I will go where he wants me and learn to love where I am. A classic example would be CS Lewis - when you read his works you know he knows God intimately, yet I believe he dismissed us as Latter Day Saints because we were teetotallers and had a restrictive lifestyle. Of course when he see's Christ he will recognise him. I have a Hindu and an Atheist friend I know know Christ very well, you can see He knows them and I have a strong feeling He will claim them as His own and they will know Him. The Celestial Kingdom would be a very poor place without people like that - its like I say to born again Christians often if my Father in Law is in hell I would rather party with him there than spend eternity with such a callous God who disgards decent human beings in favour of those obnoxious people that think its their place to be my judge and put me in hell. I don't know the idea that God flings people on the scrapheap when they have done everything in their power to know him doesn't sit well with the God I know and communicate with on a daily basis. Charley

Yes I sadly came across it because I did get married in the Temple (with because I am in the UK a civil ceremony first), my Mother 5 years on still does not acknowledge my husband. I paid for my own wedding which is nice as I got to call the shots and had a wonderful day which was exactly what my husband and I wanted I know one of the Prophets is believed to have said he would rather his daughter marry a good man than a bad Mormon and that is the way I feel about it. I want my daughter and sons wedding day to be one where they knw without a doubt Mummy and Daddy love them, they will always be welcome, with their spouse and family. If something goes wrong and its beyond repair they can come home. Parents who push their children away at this point open the door for abuse etc My dream for my son and daughter is that they marry someone who will be good to them, and that they can be with at least until their dying day, that their life on Earth may be as full as it can be. I don't know what their future holds and at their marriage its time to put them in Heavenly Fathers hands - my intention is for them to each have a fund that I turn over to them at 16 or 18 whenever they leave home, its their choice what they use it for. That way if my son wants to marry another man he can do so, as the choice becomes his. By the time they get to 16 and can get married, I think its a bit late to worry about trying to change their actions, its time to offer advice when needed and hope with fingers crossed you have instilled the teachings. CS Lewis said we love our children to the point at which they no longer need us. that for me will be a terrible but exciting day. -Charley

I think sometimes its easier to say we just don't know - neither history or archaeology are exact sciences, the US has been way behind the UK with the use of imaging equipement. The US has been heavily populated in areas since the beginning of modern archaeology with Thomas Jefferson's work on the mound people. Its highly possible the Nephites took animals with them. There are so many if buts and maybes I understand that so far no steel has been found however I don't see why the Nephites couldn't have had steel there is Iron Ore in the Americas, and the technology has been around since 1400BC in East Africa - highly possible the Nephites came across the technology whilst wandering in the wilderness. The capability to make steel has been around since the bronze age. Concerning animals and grains were are assuming there was no trade - yet cocaine has been found in Egyptian Mummies indicating trade did exist But ultimately does it matter? If God has witnessed to you that the Book of Mormon is true it may just all be fables either way it contains information that he wants us to know, to use and grow from. Charley

Thanks will put it in my journal - I love the atonement for me it doesn't matter how or where to know Jesus loved me enough to do it is amazing and my remorse that he had to do it for me, can at times feel a little overwhelming. But for me like yourself the resurrection is the part that allows me to hope - I think that is very LDS thinking which is why we don't use a cross in our chapels - it is the symbol of his death. -Charley

You aren't serious are you PC? Because if you are then I say - That is Sick & Tacky! This may be a sidetrack, but oh how the American spirit has been scarred these last 20 years. From the blowing up of the federal building in OK, to the half dozen or so school shootings, to 9-11--we truly have lost our sense of security. Note how carefully I worded my attempt-at-humor post. First, I would NOT really give my girls purses that look like weapons. Second, they were to tell the boys that the "style" of the purse was "inspired," by dad's collection (btw, I have no guns). Of course this was a joke post--and the intent was related to my (and most any father's) desire to protect his daughters from the typical male adolescent vulture. I don't blame Iggy. His reaction is telling of just how fragile the American psyche has become. I find the difference in attitude to 9/11 compared to 7/7 here amazing the interviews just after 7/7 were more along the lines of when are they going to get things running again instead of fear - I just don't get the fear thing at all, my best friend was in London that day couple of blocks away and he just jokes about it. I thought your joke was funny PC:) Charley

That was beautiful Rosie do you mind if I print it out and keep it? I agree with everything you say that no one bit of the atonement was more important - except maybe the resurection. However I feel the atonement was all of Christs's life - includes him being without sin, the tempataion by Satan etcCharley

some of the most Christlike people I have met who move around with him in their countenance have not be Christian yet for me I can see My God in them Chaley

"The road is narrow." "The sky is blue." "The grass is green."I'm not trying to be difficult. It's just that "The road is narrow" could mean anything you want it to mean; therefore, it's essentially meaningless. What does that have to do with being evil because I can't believe in Jesus? Elphaba some reason the scripture about the pagan lady wanting the crumbs off the table always comes to mind, she knew Jesus with no teaching yet those that had been taught for years didn't - I don't think you need to believe in Jesus to recognise him. Anyway this song came to mind by George HArrison called Any Road Oh I've been traveling on a boat and a plane In a car on a bike with a bus and a train Traveling there and traveling here Everywhere in every gear But oh Lord we pay the price with a Spin of a wheel - with a roll of a dice Ah yeah you pay your fare And if you don't know where you're going Any road will take you there And I've been traveling through the dirt and the grime From the past to the future through the space and the time Traveling deep beneath the waves - in watery grottoes and mountainous caves But oh Lord we've got to fight With the thoughts in the head with the dark and the light No use to stop and stare And if you don't know where you're going Any road will take you there You may not known where you came from May not know who you are May not have even wondered how you got this far I've been traveling on a wing and a prayer By the skin of my teeth by the breath of a hair Traveling where the four winds blow With the sun on my face - in the ice and the snow But oooeeee it's a game Sometimes you're cool, sometimes you're lame Ah yeah it's somewhere And if you don't know where you're going Any road will take you there But oh Lord we pay the price With the spin of the wheel with the roll of the dice Ah yeah, you pay your fare And if you don't know where you're going Any road will take you there I keep traveling around the bend There was no beginning, there is no end It wasn't born and never dies There are no edges, there is no size Oh yeah, you just don't win It's so far out - the way out is in Bow to God and call him Sir But if you don't know where you're going Any road will take you there But if you don't know where you're going Any road will take you there

I looked it up, it's a knit cap, helmet style. As for me, I was thinking "How does one wear baklava?" Me too! I imagined honey dripping all over the body, and it wasn't a charming sight. Elphaba LOL umm do you know what an executioners hood looked like? the paramilitary balaclava looks like that. THey are lovely and warm and don't have to come in black Patrick Kielty is the comedian sorry didn't make it clear I don't know him personally just think he is amazingly brave. Charley

the Pagan faiths also believe in do no harm