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There is no such thing as an unbiased history - you always study it assuming it is I could imagine my husbands family shooting back lol they come from similar situation to Joseph Smith, like my Father in Law say my Mother in Law was born 200 years ago in terms of her life as a child - and yes I could imagine the Queen (as in head of Church of England) returning fire she is a blooming good

I agree with it, he did say almost everyone, as parents we are not perfect but our task is tremendous. The phrase give me a boy until he is 7 and I will give you the man. I know how each little thing I do affects my children. My Tao of Motherhood by Vimala McClure has two poems I am going to share. Awareness: Everything arises from Consciousness and returns The Universe is the play of the rising and returning of millions of beings, all becoming One. You and your child are both on this path too. It is impossible to keep this awareness of your destiny aakened all the time. But daily meditation can bring awareness to your thoughts and actions Awareness brings constancy to your relationships. Constancy allows your child to release fear and follow his destiny. Meditate on the Oneness. Release the small self to the infinite and the Infinite will take care of Itself EDUCATION The real education teaches us to be whole human beings Be concerned with this that you your marriage, your home teach health and balance and truth Any further education merely augments this course -Charley

How long is your talk? I think a bit of your conversion story would be great. If I was doing it would probably start with the scripture, include something personal and a quote from a General authority and always remember you don't often here LDS people complain when sacrament ends early:) Charley

This is just personal based on blessings I have had for my illness, but it is linked to Faith lifting your burderns. When you are ill for a long time there is often a lot of mental problems as well, and a life to put back together. With Faith that becomes very easy Charley

I think once we've achieved superiority over the terrorists, then we can start laughing at them. We achieve that superiority over terriorism by not being frightened of it best way to reduce fear is to laugh - throughout wars etc a special brand of humour has always come about. As soon as we start sacrficing freedoms the other side has won comprehensively. Charley

Charley! That was a hoot! I loved it! I didn't know who did "Barbie Girl," and now I do. You know how the girl had pink hair? That's how I picture you. hehehehe Elphie LOL no mine is streaked with ginger and plum:) its not bubblegum pink

Dennis Miller has a great joke where he says: "Besides, Bush never promised we'd find nuclear weapons in Iraq. He said nucular." Elphie LOL have to say its sad but think Bush may become the most quoted President in US history - heck our satirists don't even need to rewrite his lines. Have you ever come across the show Dead Ringers? Actually I do have a serious question we know Iraq did have biological weapons there is no evidence they have been decomissioned so where are they? At least when they were in Iraq we knew who was pointing them. Charley

here you go another tune to go round your head lol http://youtube.com/watch?v=buXJlBd3Mf8

I can't really deal with the first part of your post - I opted after starting to read anti mormon stuff not too - it is all history and tbh proving a lot of it either way can be difficult, in amongst the real story you get impressions, forgeries, some rather interesting 19th century penny novels (they are fun to read lol), propaganda etc. I remember when I was at college I remember an interesting debate on when did Lord Hastings die - now when he died would make a huge difference to how several key figures in history are seen - now his death is well documented, we know when it occured but there is this one annoying document that could potentially change the way 4 key historical figures in Britain are perceived, the goodies and baddies change places. However at present we are sticking with the standard date of death for Lord Hastings because the majority of influential historians say it is so not because it is right but because most people think it is right. Studying history is always tricky I know if my journal would be read in 100 years I don't think people would perceive me the way I want to be or the way I am. Plus for me anyway even if Joseph Smith did everything he was supposed to have done he would have a hard time living up to other men that God had used as prophets in the past - thinking of Abraham who abandoned a wife and child, Noah who got drunk and wandered round his tent naked, Jacob who went out of his way to create jelousy in his children, Isaac didn't know his children well enough to know the difference between Isaac in a skin and Esau, Jonah who was just plain barking, Elias who killed children, Peter denied Christ 3 times, the arguments between what appears to be the bigoted Peter and better Paul, but then when he was Saul he assisted in the stoning of Christians and knowing his personality persecuted them with zeal, and this is just the stuff the we have been told about, imagine how we would feel about ancient prophets if we knew everything about their everyday life? Do I believe Joseph Smith was a good man on balance think for his Era he did OK - do I think he was perfect No - do I think he did some awful stuff - probably - do I believe he is a prophet of God - Yes, why because when I pray God says so. This is why it is much easier to believe in prophets of the past Anyway to your archaeology question which is more my speciality I would also really love for someone to explain why the Book of Mormon talks about wheat, barley, oats, millet, rice, cattle, pigs, chickens, horses, donkeys, and camels. The American Indians had none of this until 1492. Also, iron, steel and glass were not used before 1492. There are several explanations - however there were horses on the American Continent, there have been horses found in Peru. However again like with history archaeology can be very subjective - I worked on an excavation where we spent 5 years looking for an Anglo Saxon village it was finally found just 4 inches to the left of the very first trench we ever sunk. The American Continent is huge and has massive cities there is no way we can know exactly - I have my own personal theory about steel in the BOM it is highly possible that the Nephites did know how to make steel - there was a tribe in Africa that made steel from about the time they would have been travelling to the promise land its not inconcievable they would have had contact. But it may just be steel was the word Joseph Smith used to translate whatever was there. I mean if the history of the day is to be believed in 1492 there were headless men with big breasts walking round the American continent. -Charley ==

Just wanted to say congratulations funny I was thinking about your chickens last night lol Charley

Its all a sign that you have been a great Mother and got it right - think its CS Lewis that said we raise our children so that we know longer need us, if they want us its a bonus. Looks like she still loves you and will want to be part of your life for ever but right now maybe is trying to get over the fact she doesn't need you the same. Charley

.I'm not going to get started on what we did to Pakistan, our actions insured we had another dictator in place in the middle east, whatever corruption it has endured until very recently Pakistan was a democracy of sorts, when they acquired the nuclear weapons.. If there is a coup that might be restored - what right do we have to insist another country removes their nuclear weaponry, heck they had to be called WMD because Bush couldn't say Nuclear I think that is a thought provoking, well thought out letter (and before I get called a wishy washy liberal again - I am not my politics are some place between anarchism and socialism with a little right wing conservatism occasionally - my views are very rarely liberal) need to find my plug will be back hopefully -Charley

I can see everybody's concerned about my righteous indignation! Frank, you know that thing that looks like what a beauty pageant contestant wears? It drapes down the front and back, only its full of bullets? I want that thing. Oh, and the bandanna please. Elphaba You know I have slightly different take on this - personally I wouldn't wear it but maybe things like this should be made fun of would love to see it worn by a drag act or something. A few years ago we had a comedian from Ireland who had a show now I wasn't huge fan of his but he had a couple of girls on his show with camo bikini's and black paramilitary (IRA, UVF etc) style balaclava's, his father had been killed by a paramilitary organisation so no one could say he didn't understand the pain caused. I think what he did was brave courageous and brilliant we should start laughing at terrorism etc making it look as ridiculous as it really is Charley

that was great I have been thinking all night about this post lolDear Elphie What a lovely post, some of my closest friends have been made online intially over the years and I think you and Susie are strong beautiful women who are battling through a lot, you are both very inspirational - I do understand what you mean if my best friend hadn't been so dedicated I wouldn't have had any left by now he spent nearly a year just shoving things through the letter box, even on cold wet nights when he had to walk over a mile to do it - then there was my husband who sacrificed a lot for me by spending hours, and hours online when I was at my lowest ebb. They are two of the most amazing men, think its why the overweight post brought out the monster in me lol - both those men are beautiful despite their extra bulk. Just because society wants cookie cutter doesn't make society right Mark Twain said something along the lines of if you find yourself on the side of the majority its time to stop and think. I found this poem that made me think of the way you and Susie have influenced me over the past few weeks.: Our Foremothers by Vimala McClure (Taken from The Tao of Motherhood) The ancient teachers demonstrated their realization of the Way. These ancient teachers were often women. They were mothers and, sisters, aunts and grandmothers. They meditated. Through their relationships, they they taught the art of being Because they meditatated, their depth made them seem inscrutable and their wisdom profound. The truth is, they simply knew how to be human. They observed behavious and acted with precision and care, never acting recklessly. They behaved with dignity and grace and won respect of others without trying. They respected others and treated children like human beings. They were strong yet yielding, like ice ready to melt. They were simple, like the uncarved block of wood. They were receptive like a Valley between high mountains They were full of life involved in their families, yet they were able to be still and become as deep and clear as pure water These ancient grandmothers did not need to go away into the caves or forests to become enlightened They were enlightenment itself Thank you the way you two ladies have been with me has given me strength - a few years ago I allowed a lady to bully me and lost myself and my way, and very nearly my faith. You have both allowed me to feel strong and intelligent again. Its amazing how the Lord knows how to send the right kind of healing our way - funny Ihad a blessing that promised me I would gain new friendships when I least expected it. -Charley

particularly profound to me as it looks like my daughter's lazy eye will lose its sight, andI had a history lecturer with a club foot who also hikes and skisCharley

Annabelli, I have to admit, I have absolutely no idea what you are saying! are you saying you library discriminates against people because they are overweight? have tosay my bestfriend is an overweight librarian - he has no allergies and is by far the hardest worker on the staff, he works so muchovertime, and does work he isn't paid for - if you missed out on employing people like him tyour lirary would be a very poor place -Charley

I love this quote it gave me a lot of understanding in my own life, in my patriachal blessing it says I havethe gift to be heald but I have been sick for a longtime, and wasn't getting better. However I now understand Iwas given the strength to bearit and that illness can be a great teacher etc Charley

Have a confession to make going through the temple for an endownment terrfies me physically and mentally it is everything that challenges and exhausts me in one package. For me it isn't the pinnacle of my spirtuality, and I suspect in this life it will never be, I do know other disabled members also struggle with it. I think it would be nice if people could turn round and say well actually the temple is a trial for me. I was also told not to payattention to myfirst session as it is difficult to take in things and to go back as much as possible to start off with, but I do still avoid going. Had you done a lot of baptisms? I found they gave me more of a testimony of the temple and its what helped me through. The baptisms allow to feel the spirit, without the need to concerntrate Charley

Thanks you for posting this Elphie it was beautiful piece. Charley You obviously don't understand the temple ceremony or the importance of garments. I have been to the hospital with them on, and nothing weird happened, no questions, nothing. You obviously are full of anger and feel that somehow the church has slighted you. Have you had a chance to read this month's Ensign talk by President Monson, Hidden Wedges? If you don't receive the Ensign, you can find it online at LDS.org. It is an excellent talk about how grudges canker our soul... If the situation was that bad speaking from experience they would have just cut the garments off - as I was conscious I asked them could they put them in a bag for me to dispose of them myself. Other times just worked round my garments - most healthcare professionals I have encountered have been just that professional. You work in healthcare would it really have bothered you that much to have seen more of a patients body or to work round religious garments if it was an emergency? Worse that happens is they chat about it in the staff room later lol -Charley

Elisha had 42 children killed by she-bears because they made fun of his baldness. LOL I can't really top that one except maybe Elijah's big BBQ or Jonah being completely out of his tree and wandering round with a gourd

Compared to many of the Old Testament stories the worst stories about Joseph Smith make him sound like an angel - I mean Abraham left a wife and son out in the desert to die Charley

I like the Steiner and the Montessori philosophies - and Charlotte Mason is interesting but I have just done my own thing and so far its working very well Ellie loves it - I also host a home ed local group once a month last month we did trash art did I show you the video? the kids had a great time doing it - next one will include vocals, and we got to do some work on the enviroment. Its hard for me to recommend lots of things because we have somthing called a countryside ranger that do lots of child orientated things and our libraries here are fantastic. Have you located other homeschoolers in your area? We are moving to Kansas Ihave found a couple of groups already bit nervious about the Christian element Charley

I love Boy George (still do lol) and Spandeau Ballet But I really still love the 80s novelty songs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtXhHn6Yaqc (Convoy) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FtKYOtOIkE (The Chicken Song - aSpitting Image song) (Star Trekkin)There are loads more they always make me smile Charley

This is just based on years of reading really and talking with other homeschoolers, including one wonderful LDS lady who has 10 children, her second son was on a mission here whilst I was thinking of homeschooling he was a massive answer to my prayer I was getting so much opposition to the way I raise my children to have someone raised that way arrive and be exactly what I imagined to be the result of my parenting was a boost.- I think you have had most of my recommendations:) I will say whatever anyone says to you or advice you get go with your gut. I personally wouldn't buy a whole curriculum, but make your own up, its cheaper and doesn't need to be very hardwork. We do it by picking a topic for the month - Ellie is only nearly 4 so we do things like, chickens, pigs etc, I base mine round the Draw, Write, Now Books. We go and visit things that are related, do some writing and drawing based on it, watch films and read literature. I am not actively teaching reading. Maths and Science we also fit in with chickens and pigs the science is easy we can do the anatomy of a chicken or pig, then we do a bit of chemistry and physics by making a cake (with eggs), pork meal etc We try to bake a basic bread everyday for same reason, you can exaplain how and why it rises. Which can lead onto lots of other discussions. Do really recommend Rosetta Stone Computer Program for foreign language learning - my daughter has been using one to learn Arabic lol they are a bit expensive but fantastic. Do you have a city website or tourist information place? They can tell you what is availible in your area some of it might be free and can be used for trips we try to do one educational trip a week. Also doesn't hurt to go with interests - my daughter has decided she wants to be a Dr lol which is why we started looking at animal and human innards. She now knows how her owies heal etc Best thing I think you can do is have a house with lots opportunties for learning. I personally believe that teaching a child how to learn is more important than what they learn, I am very greatful for being raised in a way that allows me to learn anything I want. As long as you can read, write and do basic arthimetic and algebra that can translate into any other learning. Charley

That describes how I feel about it PC - also for me worshipping Christ or the Holy Ghost would not be automatically wrong as the glory automatically goes to the Father anyway. I guess I see it in a very none Christian way but for me by worshipping any of the Godhead all the energy flows to the same place. Whilst my prayers are always directed to Heavenly Father sometimes I like to have a word with the Saviour or ask the Holy Ghost for help. But I do know a lot of LDS say they are closer to the Father than the Saviour whereas I tend to be the reverse. Charley