Average Joe

To me using the Big Bang in a statement about science is like historians saying Columbus discovered America - forget the Phoenicians, Romans, Irish, Vikings. Jews, Chinese, etc..it just compounds a perception that's in error. Ask the average guy on the streets how did the universe form and you'll probably hear, "The Big Bang." not because the person knows its right or wrong but because it was drummed into their heads in school. If you want to pass the tests you put down "The Big Bang" and "Columbus discovered America" because that's what the text books say is right. In that sense the flat earth society is alive and well, and being spoon fed to the masses. And that irks me. Do I have an answer? No. The Big Bang (errors and all) was the evolutionists' godsend (pun intended) since it drove a stake into Hoyle and co. "Steady State" universal model (errors and all) and Hoyle had no problems with making himself a pain to believers in evolution. Stephen Hawking once stated, "In order to understand the Origin of the universe, we need to combine the General Theory of Relativity with quantum theory. The best way of doing so seems to be to use Feynman's idea of a sum over histories." and continued later, "Despite having had some great successes, not everything is solved. We do not yet have a good theoretical understanding of the observations that the expansion of the universe is accelerating again, after a long period of slowing down. Without such an understanding, we cannot be sure of the future of the universe. Will it continue to expand forever? Is inflation a law of Nature? Or will the universe eventually collapse again?" (see source here). As you said, "what we need is a replacement - and no one seems to have one (including myself)." To which I reply, perhaps we won't know God's methodology in creation of the universe until after the second coming. As revealed in the Doctrine and Covenants (D&C 101:32–34): The Lord said He will “reveal all things—things which have passed, and hidden things which no man knew, things of the earth, by which it was made, and the purpose and the end thereof—things most precious, things that are above, and things that are beneath, things that are in the earth, and upon the earth, and in heaven.”

I like the painting but I hadn't seen it before either. Thanks for the share. :)

Y'all be thankin' yor lucky stars fer rednecks now!

Which is why I had previously posted in this thread "The Contributor, “A Dream,” Volume 15, No. 10, August 1894, Pgs. 638-641 was the official church publication of the time so in that way it carries a little more weight than perhaps personal journal visions would have." Its the same as if it had been published in The Ensign. That said, folks had best get their personal spiritual antennas fine tuned while they can, 2001 & 2008 weren't aberrations.

well, given that there is no space in which there is not a kingdom whether sub-atomic or galactic and all are upheld by the light of Christ gives one pause to wonder. First I should state that I have issues with the "big bang" theory. Second, the electric or plasma universe (as far as I understand-which may not be saying much) seems to hold promise (to me) as in the comparison pictures of the universe and nerve tissue...especially if one allows their mind to ponder all the implications of Paul's (who had been caught up into the 3rd heaven) teachings about "the body of Christ". Perhaps that was what Moses was shown that prompted him to declare man is nothing. The old "core accretion model" of the development of the solar system falls apart when used on different solar systems. Chaos Theory answers many problem "core accretion" couldn't. I just like that we're living on a so called "rogue planet" Then again there are lots of folks busily working on the conjecture that the universe is a hologram...but I digress.

Not every bodies interests are the same but Joseph Smith did say: . “God hath not revealed anything to Joseph, but what He will make known unto the Twelve, and even the least Saint may know all things as fast as he is able to bear them.” Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 149.

"I'm rather a failure" is a wide open statement. A failure at what? School? Work? Finding love? Finding friends? To which I would respond, nobody is a nobody to the Lord. He died for you and your faults as well as me and mine. You have talents, polish them. You have faults? So do we all. Lose yourself in service to others, seeking nothing in return and you will will discover friends among the friendless, friends among the helpless, and at times, friends among the hopeless. The mirror is an enemy, its how your seen reflected in the eyes of others where truth is. Consider the following verses: Matt. 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. Luke 14:12-14 “Then said he also to him that bade him, When thou makest a dinner or a supper, call not thy friends, nor thy brethren, neither thy kinsmen, nor thy rich neighbours; lest they also bid thee again, and a recompence be made thee.But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind: And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.” Mosiah 4:16 “And also, ye yourselves will succor those that stand in need of your succor; ye will administer of your substance unto him that standeth in need; and ye will not suffer that the beggar putteth up his petition to you in vain, and turn him out to perish.” How can one be a failure when they are helping others...often we have a misplaced view of what true success and failure is. Take care, John

Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth? - Isaiah 40:21 Consider 2nd Chronicles 18:18-21 Again he [the prophet Micaiah] said [to to the kings Jehoshaphat and Ahaz], Therefore hear the word of the Lord; I saw the Lord sitting upon his throne, and all the host of heaven standing on his right hand and on his left [righteous and wicked spirits in the pre-existence]. And the Lord said, Who shall entice Ahab king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one spake saying after this manner, and another saying after that manner. Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the Lord, and said, I will entice him. And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the Lord said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so. Notice the 3rd spirit mentioned is evil = 1/3 of host of heaven were evil. So not only did the righteous make covenants in pre-mortality concerning the second estate, so did the wicked spirits. As you said, “many things in this life were a determination of the exercise of our agency in the pre-existence and are not the same level of choice many think we have during this mortal probation.” God is omniscient And yet, Jesus would say to the Jews in the meridian of time: “Therefore, pray ye the Lord that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day...” Joseph Smith Matthew 1:17 Would he tell them to pray if it was useless? Yet what is going on in mortality? Consider Abraham 3:22-28. Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones; And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born. And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell; And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them; And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever. And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first. And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and, at that day, many followed after him. So we have 1/3 of the host of heaven that didn't keep their first estate but covenanted to perform certain temptations on mortals. We have the noble and great ones who were “chosen” in God before they were born, who would be rulers (spiritually) and give guidance and support to those mortals to be tested. Now this third group who would be “proven” have a promise: There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. – 1 Cor. 10:13 Now if this group has no hope of making the choices which bring celestial life then agency has no meaning.

For as their laws and their governments were established by the voice of the people, and they who chose evil were more numerous than they who chose good, therefore they were ripening for destruction, for the laws had become corrupted. Yea, and this was not all; they were a stiffnecked people, insomuch that they could not be governed by the law nor justice, save it were to their destruction. - Helaman 5:2-3

Service has many done many times, Everything from feeding the sick and caring for their young children, providing rides to chemo and radiation treatments for members with cancer, work on homes and yards...plus Mormon Helping Hands disaster relief. The retention rate IS disastrous...and yes, I could tell you why almost all of them left. We have not made and retained one single minority member that I'm aware of in the past several years, and that truly bothers me.

and what kind of world will today's cub scouts inherit?

uh-oh...somebody is looking to be put on a "watch list"

lol, who DIDN'T have a squirt pistol or super soaker? I just have to shake my head and wonder, "how did we survive?"

political correctness 101

and not to have water gun "fights"

On earth Jesus had to strive to remain sinless for us and himself right up through his death on the cross, for he was also working out his own salvation - else why was he tempted? Paul says he was "was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." It would be hard to be tempted in all points if marital infidelity wasn't included.

Welcome to the site I hope you enjoy yourself :)

I agree that a "happy" ward has advantages and certain things are and can be advanced to move towards that goal, fortunately we don't have a major problem with clicks or old members vs new move-ins. Thanks for the suggestion :)

That's a good suggestion...that and cleaning up the membership records...

I'll rephrase for you. Misquoting/misunderstanding scripture is as dangerous as disregarding the teachings of general authorities.

LDS Seventy Milton R. Hunter wrote The Gospel Through the Ages in 1945. The preface states, This book is designed primarily for a course of study in the Melchizedek Priesthood quorums of the Church. It is to be used by all high priests’, seventies’, and elders’ classes in their weekly meetings, beginning January 1, 1946….The volume has been written and published under the direction of the General Authorities. As an authoritative course of study published under the direction of the General Authorities of the Church it seems that there should be no disputing that what it teaches is “official” and “sanctioned” by the Church. The book says, Operating in addition to and as part of natural laws are the Gospel ordinances. They were instituted by God the Eternal Father and His Son Jesus Christ before man was placed on this earth, for the purpose of assisting in bringing the sons and daughters of God back into Their presence. Such ordinances as baptism, confirmation, temple ordinances, priesthood ordinations, marriage, and others, are all part of the Gospel plan of salvation. All of these principles and ordinances of the Gospel are eternal. They were instituted before man was placed on the earth and are applicable to all human beings that live here… Jesus Christ, the only perfect man who has lived on this earth, was perfect because He obeyed all the principles and ordinances of the Gospel in order that He “might fulfill all righteousness.” He thereby set a pattern of life for all mortals to follow. If they obey all the principles and ordinances of the Gospel, as did the Master, their growth will continue until they attain eternal life in the Kingdom of God. (pages 18-19. Emphasis mine.)

In several replies on this thread I have said it is not considered church doctrine although perhaps not in a response to you. I'm not upset with you or anyone else who has disagreed with me here on any post. However, I can honestly say it troubles me that the early general authorities are so often dismissed out of hand.

A redneck went to a fancy restaurant to see what all of the fuss was about. The waiter suggested he try escargot. When the dish was brought out the redneck said, "Why didn't you say snails to start with?" Pratt wasn't alone. Again: The marriage of the Savior was taught more often in early church history, by leaders like President Brigham Young, George Q. Cannon, President Wilford Woodruff, Orson Pratt, Jedediah M. Grant, President Joseph F. Smith, and Heber C. Kimball, to name just a few. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. :)

Perhaps as dangerous as saying multiple founding general authorities who were all aquainted with Joseph Smith (including 3 who became prophets) didn't know what they were talking about.

We can agree to disagree on this. It is not official church doctrine even though it was taught. Things like this remind me so much of a quote by Joseph Smith: “I have tried for a number of years to get the minds of the Saints prepared to receive the things of God; but we frequently see some of them, after suffering all they have for the work of God, will fly to pieces like glass as soon as anything comes that is contrary to their traditions: they cannot stand the fire at all. How many will be able to abide a celestial law, and go through and receive their exaltation, I am unable to say, as many are called, but few are chosen" (History of the Church, 6:184–85; from a discourse given by Joseph Smith on Jan. 21, 1844, in Nauvoo, Illinois; reported by Wilford Woodruff.)