NeedleinA

Cougar in war paint!  Poor little gator.

Awesome Sauce AI!!!
If you haven't already done so, it is A-OKAY to let your Bishop know that you want one and are patiently waiting! His mouth might hang open for a little while as he is amazed at you willingness to serve...but it go for it! Also glad to hear the hubby is still smiling!

Awesome Sauce AI!!!
If you haven't already done so, it is A-OKAY to let your Bishop know that you want one and are patiently waiting! His mouth might hang open for a little while as he is amazed at you willingness to serve...but it go for it! Also glad to hear the hubby is still smiling!

Hi everyone,
 
Just wanted to let you all know that I'm still here, still attending, waiting for a calling (but I'm praying for one, I would quite like one) and I'm going to the temple to do baptisms soon and do my Visiting Teaching.  My hubby likes the people at Church and we socialise with them lots, my kids love going to Church and listening to a three year old thank Heavenly Father before bed for ice cream will melt your heart.  I haven't been on here as I was neglecting my family abit so I try not to go on the Internet so much, the Gospel isn't just about knowing stuff I have plenty of time. These last three months have been very interesting, but Im also very happy with my decision 

I read the forums of other religions because I enjoy reading about people's faith, no matter what religion they are. 
Particular to Mormonism I like to keep up with what is going on because all of my family are LDS. I read at this forum, once a week or so, usually peruse the topic titles in general, current events and Christian beliefs.  I rarely post mainly because I am not LDS and don't have an opinion on LDS topics...and people here are generally untrusting of former Mormons. I'm not interested in stirring things up or freaking people out, so I lurk 99.9 percent of the time I spend here, reading.
There are LDS members actively posting on Catholic forums. Which is good, I think.
 
 

....The real question is not so much why do Mormons leave the Church, but why after leaving, they can't leave it alone.
 
There are a lot of antis and ex Mormons out there that continue to post on LDS fora.
Why?
I have no desire to post on the fora of other religions.

Fun little fact, Utes are better than Cougars. 

IIRC the Nauvoo University got so far as to name a chancellor and a board of regents; though I don't remember whether they ever initiated classes.  

4. Fun little fact: The Nauvoo charter included details on founding a university there.

Especially in their own eyes.
 
The Traveler

Hi @Coll79,
Welcome to lds.net. We are glad you found us, and are willing to ask actual LDS members about LDS beliefs/ideas.
Some observations, in no particular order:
1. Yes, I agree, that both wronged each other, "we both agreed we did each other wrong". If you are in a 2.5 year relationship and you were 100% blindsided about him not only learning about a religion, but only told after the fact that he joined one... pretty big step in his life to have kept you in the dark about. Sounds like you both have moved passed that, but it also sounds like you both don't talk/communicate that often or that in-depth to have something like that become known only after the fact. I can understand your frustration.
2. Agreed. You "are very scared". It seems like a lot of the reactions you are having are natural. I commend you on trying to gather actual "facts" so that you are making educated and wise choices moving forward. 
3. Your boyfriend sounds very naive and new in his understandings of the LDS church. I would suggest that in his LDS infancy, he is not a solid source of doctrinal understanding "yet". This is new to you both. A calm head will prevail in this situation. Again, learn "facts" and then you can make the educated choices. 
4. If your boyfriend does really follow the teaching of the LDS church...he is going to change. He will become different. He will not be the person you met 2.5 years ago. While he will change, those changes will ultimately be for the better. He should become more spiritual, more loving, more forgiving, more empathetic, more understanding, more caring, etc. You will see changes, but they should only be changes for the better. 
5. "I don't understand why I feel this way." Change can be scary, period. You appear to be afraid of losing him, so you are scared of "loss", a loss of someone you love, it is a natural reaction. You need to figure out if it is a "justified" reaction now.
6. If you want to understand things better about the LDS church, ask real LDS people like you have done. Ask us! Ask the missionaries in your area. Want to better understand what it is that your boyfriend is doing, learn yourself. It doesn't mean you need to act on it, but take some baby steps. Learning leads to Understanding. Understanding leads to Educated Choices. Educated Choices leads to peace of mind for the choices that you did make rather than allowing fear/anxiety to control your path. 
Hang in there... baby steps...ask away, we are happy to help!

Hi Jayfaye-
I think I will post my personal experience, and then include an additional post with some church guidance on the subject.  I am a man, so I'm on the opposite side of the coin. I don't know you or your husband, so my experience is personal and may have zero similarities to your situation. First, let me say that I'm sorry that you and your husband are experiencing a "difference" of opinion. For the moment it may feel like he sees black and you see white. That is not to say that at some future point you "both" can't see grey together. Is it him that needs to change or is it you? In reality it most likely is "both" of you that need to change some version of your views. Let me explain. 
I have felt this way before: "He doesn't feel capable of having more .... He cringes at the thought of more babies."
I grew up in a family of 6 children. I spent my life playing/doing stereotypical guy things: GIJoe, guns, snakes, forts, climbing trees, skateboards, etc. My 3 sisters in contrast spent a lot of time: playing house, Cabbage Patch kids, babysitting, playing dress up, Barbie, etc. I hate to admit it but I wasn't really groomed for my own kids in the future. My sisters on the other hand had "I have always, always wanted more than two." In contrast my sisters were groomed  more towards having children. 
Fast forward to me being married. Sure my wife and I in our young naive years talked in passing about "how many children do you want?". We both said around 5-6. What did we know, we never raised kids before? It was an easy answer at the time. 
After our 2nd child, I felt much like your husband, but the question is "why" did I feel like your husband. Do you know why your husband feels "incapable"? Do you know why he "cringes"? Do you know why he "does not enjoy small children"? Since I can't speak for your husband, let me share with you "why" I felt these ways:
1. TIRED: I was tired. I was tired all the time. Tired, tired and more tired again. I worked full time and "felt" like I came home only to relieve my tired wife so she could rest, but I never felt like I was getting rest. We don't do our best work as humans when we are tired. We can be quick to anger, quick to judge and often times become hostile towards whatever it is that is making us tired... in this case it was "small children". 
2. SELFISH: It "seemed" to me that I had lost my free time. All efforts were diverted to raising the kids: diapers, bath time, feeding, Dr. appt, missed classes at church, etc. Where was some time for "me"? I felt like I had lost it and again looked to blame the source of my perceived problem.
3. JEALOUS: I was no longer the attention of my wife. My wife's attention "felt" like it had all shifted to the babies, BUT what about me?? Our discussions were always about the "kids", but what about "us" and our marriage? Our date nights evaporated. Our sex life seemed spotty at best, we were both tired and she didn't feel sexy and not in the mood. My eternal companion felt like she had abandoned ship and went off with the kids. I felt only like a "bread winner" and not much more. She was off at play groups (support groups) for other young mothers... who did I have? Again, who was to blame for my marriage feeling distant?  Of course it was those small kids again, so I "thought".
4. DEPRESSION: being tired, selfish and jealous can only go on for so long before some version of "life kind of sucks" creeps in. 
So...
Did I want more kids? Um...Nope. My naive notion of 5-6 kids evaporated quickly. I wanted sleep, free time and my wife back more THAN I wanted yet another kid. The thought of more babies only = more tired, less free time, and less of a wife. 
Because you and your husband see black and white on this, you may need to step in and figure out the art of compromise. He wants 2, you want 4... perhaps you end up with 3 instead. My wife and I have 4 children, not 5-6, AND that is fine. Perhaps we might adopt in the future, but for now 4 is where we are at. I wish I could report that my wife and I really, truly discussed this in-depth during the time of 4 babies, but we didn't. It was only after the fact did we really come to terms on how to communicate clearly and identify root causes. You are in a unique position that you are seeking help "now". I would suggest speaking with your husband and getting to the very-very bottom of why he has made the choice that has. Don't settle for a surface answer, but dig until you clearly understand why. You may not like what he has to share, but at least you will really understand. In addition, once others have posted...invite your husband to read this thread with you. We are a neutral third party, and as such this thread my act as the catalyst to spark a more in-depth, less confrontation discussion. 
Next post will contain a more spiritual response vs. my imperfect human example. 

One of the things I learned early as a parent when people offered advice, was to ignore the advice I didn't agree with and listen to the advice that made sense to me.
M.

Prior to 1974 BYU-Hawaii was called, Church College of Hawaii.
1. Fun little fact: From the Church's Newsroom, it says: "Per capita the most internationally diverse campus in the nation, with more than 74 countries represented."
I was just at BYU-H about a month ago. Definitely a hugely diverse campus. BYU-H colors are "Red", not Blue. They are the "Seasiders", not the Cougars.
2. Fun little fact: Church runs over a dozen middle & high schools in the Pacific Islands, most with Island, BOM or Church reference names....none with Joseph Smith.
3. Fun little fact: Despite any love/hate relationship between the University of Utah and BYU... UofU was established by Brigham Young.

Prior to 1974 BYU-Hawaii was called, Church College of Hawaii.
1. Fun little fact: From the Church's Newsroom, it says: "Per capita the most internationally diverse campus in the nation, with more than 74 countries represented."
I was just at BYU-H about a month ago. Definitely a hugely diverse campus. BYU-H colors are "Red", not Blue. They are the "Seasiders", not the Cougars.
2. Fun little fact: Church runs over a dozen middle & high schools in the Pacific Islands, most with Island, BOM or Church reference names....none with Joseph Smith.
3. Fun little fact: Despite any love/hate relationship between the University of Utah and BYU... UofU was established by Brigham Young.

Ahh... I kept reading and reading - waiting for this question and answer.  Makes ALL the difference. Take a step back. Breathe and let him breathe.
Stop talking about it for now and let a little more time pass.  Even if it's just 6 months. 
The difference between 2 and 3 is pretty big. In another 6 months it's possible your husband will feel less pressure, start to enjoy the kids a little more (MANY guys do not really bond and enjoy the kids until they are 3 or so - it's not uncommon!) and it also gives him time to work through some exhaustion and depression which also go hand in hand a lot of times. 
My husband also adds; for some reason the thought of a 3rd child scared him.  Not only was he exhausted, but he said for some reason he felt more financially scared supporting a 3rd child; although there was no reason for the fear. Why would a family of 5 be much different than a family of 4?  It shouldn't really; We already had a girl and a boy. We had baby furniture, bedding, car seats, etc. and clothing for both sexes so really, the 3rd child wasn't going to be the financial investment the first 2 were.  But he was scared of the financials.  In the end we did nothing for a few months... just 'wait and see' and then we started to 'not not try' and when it happened it was great. We knew it was time.
 

Hi Jayfaye-
I think I will post my personal experience, and then include an additional post with some church guidance on the subject.  I am a man, so I'm on the opposite side of the coin. I don't know you or your husband, so my experience is personal and may have zero similarities to your situation. First, let me say that I'm sorry that you and your husband are experiencing a "difference" of opinion. For the moment it may feel like he sees black and you see white. That is not to say that at some future point you "both" can't see grey together. Is it him that needs to change or is it you? In reality it most likely is "both" of you that need to change some version of your views. Let me explain. 
I have felt this way before: "He doesn't feel capable of having more .... He cringes at the thought of more babies."
I grew up in a family of 6 children. I spent my life playing/doing stereotypical guy things: GIJoe, guns, snakes, forts, climbing trees, skateboards, etc. My 3 sisters in contrast spent a lot of time: playing house, Cabbage Patch kids, babysitting, playing dress up, Barbie, etc. I hate to admit it but I wasn't really groomed for my own kids in the future. My sisters on the other hand had "I have always, always wanted more than two." In contrast my sisters were groomed  more towards having children. 
Fast forward to me being married. Sure my wife and I in our young naive years talked in passing about "how many children do you want?". We both said around 5-6. What did we know, we never raised kids before? It was an easy answer at the time. 
After our 2nd child, I felt much like your husband, but the question is "why" did I feel like your husband. Do you know why your husband feels "incapable"? Do you know why he "cringes"? Do you know why he "does not enjoy small children"? Since I can't speak for your husband, let me share with you "why" I felt these ways:
1. TIRED: I was tired. I was tired all the time. Tired, tired and more tired again. I worked full time and "felt" like I came home only to relieve my tired wife so she could rest, but I never felt like I was getting rest. We don't do our best work as humans when we are tired. We can be quick to anger, quick to judge and often times become hostile towards whatever it is that is making us tired... in this case it was "small children". 
2. SELFISH: It "seemed" to me that I had lost my free time. All efforts were diverted to raising the kids: diapers, bath time, feeding, Dr. appt, missed classes at church, etc. Where was some time for "me"? I felt like I had lost it and again looked to blame the source of my perceived problem.
3. JEALOUS: I was no longer the attention of my wife. My wife's attention "felt" like it had all shifted to the babies, BUT what about me?? Our discussions were always about the "kids", but what about "us" and our marriage? Our date nights evaporated. Our sex life seemed spotty at best, we were both tired and she didn't feel sexy and not in the mood. My eternal companion felt like she had abandoned ship and went off with the kids. I felt only like a "bread winner" and not much more. She was off at play groups (support groups) for other young mothers... who did I have? Again, who was to blame for my marriage feeling distant?  Of course it was those small kids again, so I "thought".
4. DEPRESSION: being tired, selfish and jealous can only go on for so long before some version of "life kind of sucks" creeps in. 
So...
Did I want more kids? Um...Nope. My naive notion of 5-6 kids evaporated quickly. I wanted sleep, free time and my wife back more THAN I wanted yet another kid. The thought of more babies only = more tired, less free time, and less of a wife. 
Because you and your husband see black and white on this, you may need to step in and figure out the art of compromise. He wants 2, you want 4... perhaps you end up with 3 instead. My wife and I have 4 children, not 5-6, AND that is fine. Perhaps we might adopt in the future, but for now 4 is where we are at. I wish I could report that my wife and I really, truly discussed this in-depth during the time of 4 babies, but we didn't. It was only after the fact did we really come to terms on how to communicate clearly and identify root causes. You are in a unique position that you are seeking help "now". I would suggest speaking with your husband and getting to the very-very bottom of why he has made the choice that has. Don't settle for a surface answer, but dig until you clearly understand why. You may not like what he has to share, but at least you will really understand. In addition, once others have posted...invite your husband to read this thread with you. We are a neutral third party, and as such this thread my act as the catalyst to spark a more in-depth, less confrontation discussion. 
Next post will contain a more spiritual response vs. my imperfect human example. 

Hi Jayfaye-
I think I will post my personal experience, and then include an additional post with some church guidance on the subject.  I am a man, so I'm on the opposite side of the coin. I don't know you or your husband, so my experience is personal and may have zero similarities to your situation. First, let me say that I'm sorry that you and your husband are experiencing a "difference" of opinion. For the moment it may feel like he sees black and you see white. That is not to say that at some future point you "both" can't see grey together. Is it him that needs to change or is it you? In reality it most likely is "both" of you that need to change some version of your views. Let me explain. 
I have felt this way before: "He doesn't feel capable of having more .... He cringes at the thought of more babies."
I grew up in a family of 6 children. I spent my life playing/doing stereotypical guy things: GIJoe, guns, snakes, forts, climbing trees, skateboards, etc. My 3 sisters in contrast spent a lot of time: playing house, Cabbage Patch kids, babysitting, playing dress up, Barbie, etc. I hate to admit it but I wasn't really groomed for my own kids in the future. My sisters on the other hand had "I have always, always wanted more than two." In contrast my sisters were groomed  more towards having children. 
Fast forward to me being married. Sure my wife and I in our young naive years talked in passing about "how many children do you want?". We both said around 5-6. What did we know, we never raised kids before? It was an easy answer at the time. 
After our 2nd child, I felt much like your husband, but the question is "why" did I feel like your husband. Do you know why your husband feels "incapable"? Do you know why he "cringes"? Do you know why he "does not enjoy small children"? Since I can't speak for your husband, let me share with you "why" I felt these ways:
1. TIRED: I was tired. I was tired all the time. Tired, tired and more tired again. I worked full time and "felt" like I came home only to relieve my tired wife so she could rest, but I never felt like I was getting rest. We don't do our best work as humans when we are tired. We can be quick to anger, quick to judge and often times become hostile towards whatever it is that is making us tired... in this case it was "small children". 
2. SELFISH: It "seemed" to me that I had lost my free time. All efforts were diverted to raising the kids: diapers, bath time, feeding, Dr. appt, missed classes at church, etc. Where was some time for "me"? I felt like I had lost it and again looked to blame the source of my perceived problem.
3. JEALOUS: I was no longer the attention of my wife. My wife's attention "felt" like it had all shifted to the babies, BUT what about me?? Our discussions were always about the "kids", but what about "us" and our marriage? Our date nights evaporated. Our sex life seemed spotty at best, we were both tired and she didn't feel sexy and not in the mood. My eternal companion felt like she had abandoned ship and went off with the kids. I felt only like a "bread winner" and not much more. She was off at play groups (support groups) for other young mothers... who did I have? Again, who was to blame for my marriage feeling distant?  Of course it was those small kids again, so I "thought".
4. DEPRESSION: being tired, selfish and jealous can only go on for so long before some version of "life kind of sucks" creeps in. 
So...
Did I want more kids? Um...Nope. My naive notion of 5-6 kids evaporated quickly. I wanted sleep, free time and my wife back more THAN I wanted yet another kid. The thought of more babies only = more tired, less free time, and less of a wife. 
Because you and your husband see black and white on this, you may need to step in and figure out the art of compromise. He wants 2, you want 4... perhaps you end up with 3 instead. My wife and I have 4 children, not 5-6, AND that is fine. Perhaps we might adopt in the future, but for now 4 is where we are at. I wish I could report that my wife and I really, truly discussed this in-depth during the time of 4 babies, but we didn't. It was only after the fact did we really come to terms on how to communicate clearly and identify root causes. You are in a unique position that you are seeking help "now". I would suggest speaking with your husband and getting to the very-very bottom of why he has made the choice that has. Don't settle for a surface answer, but dig until you clearly understand why. You may not like what he has to share, but at least you will really understand. In addition, once others have posted...invite your husband to read this thread with you. We are a neutral third party, and as such this thread my act as the catalyst to spark a more in-depth, less confrontation discussion. 
Next post will contain a more spiritual response vs. my imperfect human example. 

Even if you don't have another child ever again... "you have 2 children you adore". Count the blessings you "have" and don't let yourself focus so sharply right now on what you think you don't "also" have. My brother and sister-in-law have zero children and several miscarriages to show for their years of marriage. Probably would do back flips for years if they could have but just one child. 

Even if you don't have another child ever again... "you have 2 children you adore". Count the blessings you "have" and don't let yourself focus so sharply right now on what you think you don't "also" have. My brother and sister-in-law have zero children and several miscarriages to show for their years of marriage. Probably would do back flips for years if they could have but just one child. 

The pattern I see is I guess the bizarro world.  The bizarro world grows and develops and encompasses all things.
Right becomes wrong, and wrong becomes right until everything is turned around, backward. 
And ultimately, Satan reigns.
dc

2 Timothy 4:3
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
 
Prophetic!

Hi @Coll79,
Welcome to lds.net. We are glad you found us, and are willing to ask actual LDS members about LDS beliefs/ideas.
Some observations, in no particular order:
1. Yes, I agree, that both wronged each other, "we both agreed we did each other wrong". If you are in a 2.5 year relationship and you were 100% blindsided about him not only learning about a religion, but only told after the fact that he joined one... pretty big step in his life to have kept you in the dark about. Sounds like you both have moved passed that, but it also sounds like you both don't talk/communicate that often or that in-depth to have something like that become known only after the fact. I can understand your frustration.
2. Agreed. You "are very scared". It seems like a lot of the reactions you are having are natural. I commend you on trying to gather actual "facts" so that you are making educated and wise choices moving forward. 
3. Your boyfriend sounds very naive and new in his understandings of the LDS church. I would suggest that in his LDS infancy, he is not a solid source of doctrinal understanding "yet". This is new to you both. A calm head will prevail in this situation. Again, learn "facts" and then you can make the educated choices. 
4. If your boyfriend does really follow the teaching of the LDS church...he is going to change. He will become different. He will not be the person you met 2.5 years ago. While he will change, those changes will ultimately be for the better. He should become more spiritual, more loving, more forgiving, more empathetic, more understanding, more caring, etc. You will see changes, but they should only be changes for the better. 
5. "I don't understand why I feel this way." Change can be scary, period. You appear to be afraid of losing him, so you are scared of "loss", a loss of someone you love, it is a natural reaction. You need to figure out if it is a "justified" reaction now.
6. If you want to understand things better about the LDS church, ask real LDS people like you have done. Ask us! Ask the missionaries in your area. Want to better understand what it is that your boyfriend is doing, learn yourself. It doesn't mean you need to act on it, but take some baby steps. Learning leads to Understanding. Understanding leads to Educated Choices. Educated Choices leads to peace of mind for the choices that you did make rather than allowing fear/anxiety to control your path. 
Hang in there... baby steps...ask away, we are happy to help!

Hi @Coll79,
Welcome to lds.net. We are glad you found us, and are willing to ask actual LDS members about LDS beliefs/ideas.
Some observations, in no particular order:
1. Yes, I agree, that both wronged each other, "we both agreed we did each other wrong". If you are in a 2.5 year relationship and you were 100% blindsided about him not only learning about a religion, but only told after the fact that he joined one... pretty big step in his life to have kept you in the dark about. Sounds like you both have moved passed that, but it also sounds like you both don't talk/communicate that often or that in-depth to have something like that become known only after the fact. I can understand your frustration.
2. Agreed. You "are very scared". It seems like a lot of the reactions you are having are natural. I commend you on trying to gather actual "facts" so that you are making educated and wise choices moving forward. 
3. Your boyfriend sounds very naive and new in his understandings of the LDS church. I would suggest that in his LDS infancy, he is not a solid source of doctrinal understanding "yet". This is new to you both. A calm head will prevail in this situation. Again, learn "facts" and then you can make the educated choices. 
4. If your boyfriend does really follow the teaching of the LDS church...he is going to change. He will become different. He will not be the person you met 2.5 years ago. While he will change, those changes will ultimately be for the better. He should become more spiritual, more loving, more forgiving, more empathetic, more understanding, more caring, etc. You will see changes, but they should only be changes for the better. 
5. "I don't understand why I feel this way." Change can be scary, period. You appear to be afraid of losing him, so you are scared of "loss", a loss of someone you love, it is a natural reaction. You need to figure out if it is a "justified" reaction now.
6. If you want to understand things better about the LDS church, ask real LDS people like you have done. Ask us! Ask the missionaries in your area. Want to better understand what it is that your boyfriend is doing, learn yourself. It doesn't mean you need to act on it, but take some baby steps. Learning leads to Understanding. Understanding leads to Educated Choices. Educated Choices leads to peace of mind for the choices that you did make rather than allowing fear/anxiety to control your path. 
Hang in there... baby steps...ask away, we are happy to help!

Wow. That's a lot of changes for you in a couple of weeks and such changes can be tough on anyone. I feel for you!
My first advice us to breathe. Take a nice deep breath and realize you don't have to a darn thing at this time. And you need some more time to take this in.
My thoughts and opinions, worth whatever you want:
If it makes you feel better I sat your boyfriend is rushing this just as much on you. He has every right to choose whatever faith he wants. You two sound serious, but when you're not married and states away I question just what explanations and permission he requires of you. So, sorry, you may need to just force yourself to deal with his choices.
Also recall you are under no obligation to join. Especially to get sealed and excommunicated, a very stupid idea on his part. With all due respect, I think it's a bit odd you've been happily dating for a couple of years and now with religion changes marriage is suddenly being forced up. Why now? 
I'm also a bit surprised he has already been ordained a priest.
You also say you want to cry when you hear about what he's doing at his church. May I ask what specifically is making you want to cry? 
You also worry about him becoming a different person than the man you love. This is a very legitimate and understandable fear. What are you afraid you will see in regards to changes? People change all the time because of various outside influences. Why this change and not something else? (I don't mean to sound accusing, just putting out that question for you to think about.)
Based on your one post and my limitations to know anything more than that, I venture to say you're overthinking this. It's new, joining a church is a big change, and I think you're trying to tackle the change all at once. Really no need to at this point, you have time. So, hugs to you. Take this at your pace. You can decide later what to do.