Edspringer

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  1. Like
    Edspringer got a reaction from Anddenex in Celestial kingdom x Spirit Realm   
    Great observations. Thank you
    Well, I`ve been thinking about children not living with their parents, especially when they are growing. If things of this Earth are in the likeness of the things which are heavenly, as Paul said, then we must concluded that we, indeed, lived in the home of our Heavenly Fathter and Mother. But in John 14:2 we read that in the house of our Father there are many mansions, so it sounds plausible to consider the pre-mortal realm of spirits as a different place, where our Father and Mother, who own everything in the universe, would come and visit us. What do you think of that?
  2. Like
    Edspringer reacted to Anddenex in Celestial kingdom x Spirit Realm   
    We dwelt where the Father dwelt, we are his children his offspring. What children do you know of that dwell any other place besides where their mother and father dwell? We know this earth becomes the Celestial Kingdom.
    If you are referring to the pre-mortal life as where those dwell who have become like the Father, received all he has, then "No" the pre-mortal realm was not the Celestial Kingdom we would dwell upon.
    Where the Father dwells, if that is called "a" Celestial Kingdom then indeed that is where we are from and that is what is considered as our pre-mortal life.
  3. Like
    Edspringer reacted to JohnsonJones in Celestial kingdom x Spirit Realm   
    4)  We would have left the Pre-existence because we had reached the limit of our existence.  We could stay there as we were for the rest of eternity, always as children but never growing to our maturity, or we could strive to be like our Father.  As such, we would need to gain bodies and be tested to see whether we could/wanted to obtain the same glory as we saw with our eternal parent(s).  It is the natural way for children to grow and be like their parents.  This is why we left the Pre-existence, to grow up and become more like our Father and mature into our own right and degree of glory.
    5) Why  not?  If the ideas about exaltation are correct and we are to have an eternal posterity...it would make sense that it would follow in the same pattern that was established for us.
    Where will these baby spirit children live, and where will they grow until they too are ready to obtain physical bodies?
  4. Like
    Edspringer reacted to mikbone in Celestial kingdom x Spirit Realm   
    In my opinion, the Premortal World (PW) is not the Celestial Kingdom (CK).  I can't find concrete evidence either way.  But there are many drawings like the above.  And in most of those illustrations, the PW does not look like the CK (although the 3rd one does for contrast)...  I really like the first one with The Presence of God Venn diagram.  
    Anyway, things that make me think that it is not the Celestial Kingdom.
    1) We had no body in the PW thus we had limited interactions with Heavenly Father.  I'm sure that the CK has objects of matter that we can interact with.  
    2) There was an ugly war in our PW.  I don't see that happening in the CK.  (Kinda like, I was allowed to rough house outside in the yard.  But Mom would not let us hang out in the master bedroom and goof off)
    3) In the PW we noticed that there was one like unto God.  (Abraham 3: 24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;)  If we had been in the CK there would have been many like unto God.  
    4) Why would we have left the PW if it was already the CK.  Heck I would have preferred to just stay there and learn by osmosis.  And enjoy all the benefits of Heaven.  
    5) When we enter into the Celestial Kingdom I don't imagine hanging out with other people's spirit children.  
  5. Like
    Edspringer reacted to Jersey Boy in Celestial kingdom x Spirit Realm   
    Pre-Existence, in Spiritual Form, of Man, the Lower Animals and the Earth—The Temporal Probationary State—The Millennium—The Final Change
    Discourse by Elder Orson Pratt, delivered at Mount Pleasant, November 12th, 1879. Reported by Geo. F. Gibbs.
  6. Like
    Edspringer got a reaction from mikbone in Flesh & Bone <—> Flesh & Blood?   
    Exactely. God said that when Adam and Eve partook of the fruit, they became like themselves, knowing good from evil. 
  7. Like
    Edspringer reacted to CV75 in Flesh & Bone <—> Flesh & Blood?   
    I was understanding you to say that transgression is a change, i.e. an immortal converting to a mortal state and back again, and that when God does it, it is not in the sense of sinning.
    I see Adam and Eve's transgression as a change from a terretsrial state to a telestial state, and not in the sense of sinning as we do in the telestial state. I also see their choice as a change involving the eternal progression of the children of God, and not as reflective of a temporary regression of God. The allegory, the literal fruit, etc. involves the former, not the latter.
    This is why it doesn't matter in my mind whether the story of Adam and Eve is allegorically, literal, or both. My comments are not an expression of lack of appreciation of your idea that God moves back and forth between states, just pointing out that this particular story doesn't support your conclusions. I wasn't trying to express whether I appreciate them or not, as that is irrelevant to the discussion. I would rather focus on the actual support presented for your conclusions, for which I presume you are seeking feedback.
  8. Like
    Edspringer reacted to mikbone in Flesh & Bone <—> Flesh & Blood?   
  9. Haha
    Edspringer reacted to askandanswer in Flesh & Bone <—> Flesh & Blood?   
    I keep on wondering what would have happened if Adam and Eve had made fruit salad instead of opting for one fruit at a time.
  10. Like
    Edspringer reacted to Midwest LDS in Flesh & Bone <—> Flesh & Blood?   
    I suspect we won't agree on this matter, but you bring up some points I haven't considered before. I appreciate the thought experiment.
  11. Like
    Edspringer reacted to CV75 in Flesh & Bone <—> Flesh & Blood?   
    But your point is that it exactly was a change. But it is a change involving eternal progression not temporary regression, and a change involving the children of God, not God. Allegorically and literally.
  12. Like
    Edspringer reacted to Midwest LDS in Flesh & Bone <—> Flesh & Blood?   
    Two problems wo1th this theory. First, God already knows good from evil so the tree would not affect him. Second, it seems to me that it was the transgression of Adam and Eve in partaking the fruit, not some sort of magic or supernatural power of the fruit themselves, that caused the change. 
  13. Like
    Edspringer reacted to Just_A_Guy in Flesh & Bone <—> Flesh & Blood?   
    He (or an antecedent) had already partaken of such a fruit and transcended its effects.  
  14. Like
    Edspringer reacted to JohnsonJones in Flesh & Bone <—> Flesh & Blood?   
    Has he ordered himself not to partake of it?
    Who says he doesn't eat it already?
  15. Like
    Edspringer reacted to Fether in My Thoughts on Organizing Intelligences   
    A great theory!!!
    for a fiction book
    D+C 88:25 “the earth abideth the law of a celestial kingdom, for it filleth the measure of its creation, and transgresseth not the law--“
    In place of the phrase “the earth” you can put anything else. As long as a creature full fills its measure, it will be found in the celestial kingdom. The highest degree of the celestial kingdom is held only for those that are children of God and sealed for eternity. So that is the plan. Animals/plants/insects/etc will all be found in the celestial kingdom, but will not be “exalted”
    Why is this so?
    I don’t think this is “unfair” or any of us being here was just a “luck of the draw”. Ever known someone that attends church but refuses callings because they don’t want the responsibility? I imagine it was the same way in the creation. Some spirits don’t want the responsibility of exaltation and decided before mortality that they would rather not have to deal with the stress of agency.
    Similarly, those that will be exalted are those that magnify their callings, follow the counsel of the prophets strictly, and participate in all the ordinances of the gospel. Those who do not will not be exalted.
  16. Like
    Edspringer got a reaction from LePeel in Touch me not   
    This makes sense, especially if we take a look  at what Elder James E Talmage wrote on his book "Jesus the Christ" on the matter. 
  17. Like
    Edspringer reacted to CV75 in My Theory on Who Is the Holy Ghost   
    Spirits can be gods, just not in the same fuller way an exalted being is. "Godhead" means "divine nature," and I know we tend to emphasize the "council" aspect of that, probably related to our appreciation of restored authority and the idea of a "quorum of three presidents" in ancient times (D&C 107:29). But the Holy Ghost can certainly carry out His work just as Jesus did His in pre-mortality.
  18. Like
    Edspringer reacted to Vort in My Theory on Who Is the Holy Ghost   
    Please, stop this thread right now. Seriously. Please just stop. This is not the type of thing that ought to be speculated on. Please just let it die. Anything you write will just embarrass you, anyone who reads it, and Latter-day Saints in general.
  19. Like
    Edspringer reacted to Clarity_over_agreement in Touch me not   
    So at BYU there was a lecture series on the savior during an exhibit they had. In the lecture series one of the scholars of scripture said that the original hebrew used a word similar to touch but that in actuality the true hebrew word really meant "to cling unto" or "to hold steadfastly". The scholar then says that it might be suggested that Jesus was telling marry to let go of him rather then to not touch him at all.
  20. Like
    Edspringer reacted to richlittell in Touch me not   
    Good discussions, but I think it rather simple.
    Though there may be more to it, I don't think we need to look beyond the symbolic. Christ needed to approach Heavenly Father unblemished, even if only in symbolism (I don't think Mary's touch would have polluted him). But more than this, it surely was out of respect to the Father whose right it was to touch or hold Christ first above all others, no mortal excepted.
  21. Like
    Edspringer reacted to blusun7 in Touch me not   
    Doctrine and Covenants section 9
    1 THERE are two kinds of beings in heaven, namely: Angels, who are resurrected personages, having bodies of flesh and bones—
    2 For instance, Jesus said: Handle me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
    3 Secondly: the spirits of just men made perfect, they who are not resurrected, but inherit the same glory.
    4 When a messenger comes saying he has a message from God, offer him your hand and request him to shake hands with you.
    5 If he be an angel he will do so, and you will feel his hand.
    6 If he be the spirit of a just man made perfect he will come in his glory; for that is the only way he can appear—
    7 Ask him to shake hands with you, but he will not move, because it is contrary to the order of heaven for a just man to deceive; but he will still deliver his message.
    8 If it be the devil as an angel of light, when you ask him to shake hands he will offer you his hand, and you will not feel anything; you may therefore detect him.
    9 These are three grand keys whereby you may know whether any administration is from God.
    Verse 7 mentions an order...
    Either Jesus had to fullfill the order as you have said milkbone or he didnt want her to think she was just being illusional or she could say she had a dream of jesus.
  22. Like
    Edspringer reacted to Rob Osborn in Received Up Into the Cloud, The Church of the Firstborn   
    D&C section 19 refers to the son's of perdition. They are the only ones in the end who do not repent and thus must suffer as the Savior did. Look at the timing-
    3 Retaining all power, even to the destroying of Satan and his works at the end of the world, and the last great day of judgment, which I shall pass upon the inhabitants thereof, judging every man according to his works and the deeds which he hath done.
                4 And surely every man must repent or suffer, for I, God, am endless.
                5 Wherefore, I revoke not the judgments which I shall pass, but woes shall go forth, weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth, yea, to those who are found on my left hand.
    The destroying of Satan and his works at the end of the world at the great last day of judgment is at the end of the millennium. Those who did not repent by this day are the ones found on the left hand. And who are they? The devil and his angels (son's of perdition)
  23. Like
    Edspringer reacted to Colirio in Received Up Into the Cloud, The Church of the Firstborn   
    @Edspringer, to save you a lot of frustration later, I will save you some time now. 
     
    Rob Osborn believes the modern apostles and prophets are mistaken in their interpretations of scripture. He believes that the Telestial and Terrestrial Kingdoms are not final kingdoms of glory and that they only pertain to now and millennium time periods respectively. 
  24. Like
    Edspringer reacted to Rob Osborn in Received Up Into the Cloud, The Church of the Firstborn   
    Mosiah states that there are two outcomes- born again sons and daughters of God  on the right hand and those on the left hand. The left hand is reserved only for tge devil and his angels to be cast out-
    26 But, behold, verily I say unto you, before the earth shall pass away, Michael, mine archangel, shall sound his trump, and then shall all the dead awake, for their graves shall be opened, and they shall come forth—yea, even all.
    27 And the righteous shall be gathered on my right hand unto eternal life; and the wicked on my left hand will I be ashamed to own before the Father;
    28 Wherefore I will say unto them—Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. (D&C 29:26-28)
  25. Like
    Edspringer reacted to Rob Osborn in Received Up Into the Cloud, The Church of the Firstborn   
    So, is it fair to say that all who get saved from outer darkness will be members of the church of the Firstborn?