CV75

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  1. Like
    CV75 got a reaction from mordorbund in Questions re the atonement from Alma 39   
    Yes, there was a debt.
    Until Christ rose from the dead, no one else did. Until He ascended to the Father, no one else was exalted. The post-mortal spirts bore that weight (D&C 45:17), and pre-mortal spirits bore it with them if Moses 7:28 is any indication.
    However, those who understood Alma 13 and those who understood the meaning of the Law of Moses knew that the Lord’s atonement would be as effective as though it had been performed in the flesh (Jacob 4:4, Mosiah 4).
  2. Like
    CV75 got a reaction from romans8 in The Great and Abominable Church   
    It seems to me that verses 4-9 are a characterization or description, indicating that it was set up, at least in “in spirit,” from the very beginning of Adam’s civilization, and has fought against God and His people (the saints) ever since. Verse 10 picks up an actual “historical” timeline and goes back and forth in history through the rest of the chapter (“And the time cometh that he shall manifest himself unto all nations…).
     
    Verse 26, as part of the historical timeline, shows that this church of the devil intensified its activity against the Church of the Lamb sometime after the twelve disciples carried out the great commission. Verse 28 indicates the church of the devil had some control over the books (which I take to be literal books as well as figurative in terms of proper record or witness, which is the role of the apostles). This could only have been accomplished by force per the description in verses 4-9, by destroying the saints.
  3. Like
    CV75 got a reaction from Backroads in Mind/spirit interaction   
    I think that as long as spirit and element are connected, the spirit affects the element that houses it and the element affects the spirit that chose to connect with it. Given that we (our spirits, "For man is spirit"), chose to come into this second estate and become souls, the spirit will also quicken and glorify of the element that houses it in the resurrection. Spirit is matter, but is more fine and pure than the element that houses it. I count brains and neurochemicals as element.
  4. Like
    CV75 got a reaction from askandanswer in Mind/spirit interaction   
    I think that as long as spirit and element are connected, the spirit affects the element that houses it and the element affects the spirit that chose to connect with it. Given that we (our spirits, "For man is spirit"), chose to come into this second estate and become souls, the spirit will also quicken and glorify of the element that houses it in the resurrection. Spirit is matter, but is more fine and pure than the element that houses it. I count brains and neurochemicals as element.
  5. Like
    CV75 got a reaction from Just_A_Guy in 2 Nephi 2:15-16 - opposition   
    I suspect it was more a chemical (bio-, neuro- or other) change at that point than a structural change, and it affected in both their bodies. But where the message is primarily spiritual, being parents would entail great effort (multiplied "sorrow") and descendants (multiplied "conception" as children become parents generation after generation). The "husband" of course was given the priesthood sealing keys to ensures this happen in the Lord's way.
  6. Like
    CV75 got a reaction from romans8 in 2 Nephi 2:15-16 - opposition   
    Adam and Eve experienced a good deal of physical and mental change and development by the time they said those things in Moses 5: 10 -11, they had become far more advanced than in the days leading up to the Fall. I believe Adam and Eve’s experience in physical bodies began with very basic sensations, perceptions and understanding and grew from there, and continued after they fell.
    Subjectively speaking, sweetness and bitterness can be equally enticing, especially when we are exposed to one in excess (I’m thinking of the principle used in culinary pairings), and together they interact at the right time, place and other conditions to create a full experience. Perfumes are another example – they often contain small, imperceptible amounts of foul-smelling ingredients to enhance the overall result). So, one fruit being sweet and the other being bitter allows both fruits to be subjectively enticing.
    God commanded them to eat all but one fruit, and the serpent invited them to eat that one fruit (ignoring the others), but the actual enticement came from the interplay between the couple, these other persons and their environment. God told them they would die (whatever that might mean to beings who knew nothing but immortality), which is more of a dissuasion than an enticement, and the serpent told them they would not die but have knowledge (whatever that could mean to submissive, childlike beings), and subtly prompted their need for independence, but these came from the persons, not the fruit itself. Fruit is an object and does not act, so the enticement is in the eye of the subjective beholders who act for themselves.
  7. Like
    CV75 got a reaction from Backroads in Giving our burdens to the Lord... doing so in practice   
    I would say that faith in Christ initiates the spirit of discipleship, and following His discipline is the practice of taking His yoke upon us. He carries our burdens with His yoke, which represents our covenant relationship with Him. When we face specific trials or burdens, we act as disciples every way we can, and comfort comes one way or time or another.
  8. Like
    CV75 got a reaction from romans8 in The Great and Abominable Church   
    See Posted July 17 and Quahal.
    2 Nephi 28:3 ("not unto the Lord") seems to refer to contending denominations within Christendom; :12 seems to refer to secular and materialistic philosophies; and :18 to the church of the devil. Mosiah 25 refers to congregations or assemblies of believers under the same covenant Mosiah established under his priest-king authority.
  9. Like
    CV75 got a reaction from Just_A_Guy in The Great and Abominable Church   
    See Posted July 17 and Quahal.
    2 Nephi 28:3 ("not unto the Lord") seems to refer to contending denominations within Christendom; :12 seems to refer to secular and materialistic philosophies; and :18 to the church of the devil. Mosiah 25 refers to congregations or assemblies of believers under the same covenant Mosiah established under his priest-king authority.
  10. Like
    CV75 got a reaction from Just_A_Guy in When the spirit enters the body   
    Perhaps the voice was pre-recorded, perhaps someone else delivered the message by delegation (including by divine investiture of authority), as angels often do.
  11. Like
    CV75 reacted to Carborendum in When the spirit enters the body   
    I've heard the description cited above by Laronius and Person0.
    I'd like to add the following.
    1. John the baptist leapt in the womb when he had several months remaining before his birth.
    2. We tend to have this belief that the veil is a very thin wall that completely obscures one side from the other.  I believe it is more like a fog that gradually obscures the vision the further we go.  And it only becomes complete some short time after birth.  It may be longer than we might think.
    3. The Brother of Jared had faith so strong that he could not be kept from seeing within the veil.
    Based on #2 & 3 above, what can be said of the Savior?
  12. Like
    CV75 reacted to Fether in When the spirit enters the body   
    This is also something I noticed. I imagine the exact time a spirit enters the body may be different and there isn’t any real metric we can look to to really know. Additionally, Christ may have had a little more freedom with this whole process.
    I understand this may not be where you are going with this, but it is worth pointing out. When the spirit enters the body should have little sway on our opinion of abortion.
  13. Like
    CV75 reacted to person0 in When the spirit enters the body   
    I have considered this passage as well.  What would we gain from knowing the answer?
    Also, the Voice of the Lord could be the Holy Spirit speaking by divine investiture of authority (similar to the angel in the Book of Revelation), and could have received instructions in advance.
    I don't have a for sure opinion either way other than that I think the knowledge, while interesting, would probably not be very useful.
  14. Like
    CV75 reacted to laronius in When the spirit enters the body   
    My opinion is that mentioned by @person0that what he heard was the Holy Ghost in his role as messenger, kind of a "thus saith the Lord" kind of pronouncement that prophets make as an agent of the Lord.
    Though we do know people have near-death experiences where it appears that their spirits temporarily leave their body. So I guess it's possible Jesus was able to do the same here. 
  15. Haha
    CV75 got a reaction from Anddenex in The Great and Abominable Church   
    Thank you for clarifying that this is not the next Disney Princess!
  16. Haha
    CV75 got a reaction from NeuroTypical in The Great and Abominable Church   
    Thank you for clarifying that this is not the next Disney Princess!
  17. Like
    CV75 got a reaction from askandanswer in Question re mercy   
    While the final judgement not a performance/rewards program, it is the conclusion of a testing program (Abraham 3: 25 -26). From D&C 88,
    36 All kingdoms have a law given;
    37 And there are many akingdoms; for there is no bspace in the which there is no ckingdom; and there is no kingdom in which there is no space, either a greater or a lesser kingdom.
    38 And unto every kingdom is given a alaw; and unto every law there are certain bounds also and conditions.
    39 All beings who abide not in those aconditions are not bjustified.
    40 For aintelligence cleaveth unto intelligence; bwisdom receiveth wisdom; ctruth embraceth truth; dvirtue loveth virtue; elight cleaveth unto light; fmercy hath gcompassion on mercy and claimeth her own; hjustice continueth its course and claimeth its own; judgment goeth before the face of him who sitteth upon the throne and governeth and executeth all things.
    I think that God's grace enables the willing to qualify for eventually attaining a fulness of intelligence, wisdom, truth, virtue, light, mercy, justice so that we too can govern and execute all things. 
  18. Like
    CV75 got a reaction from Vort in Question re mercy   
    According to Alma 42, mercy is conditional:
    13 Therefore, according to justice, the aplan of bredemption could not be brought about, only on conditions of repentance of men in this probationary state, yea, this preparatory state; for except it were for these conditions, mercy could not take effect except it should destroy the work of justice. Now the work of justice could not be destroyed; if so, God would ccease to be God.
    I take the Lord's Atonement to be a charitable act, with the greatest desire to extend mercy, but this mercy can only be extended upon conditions of repentance.
  19. Like
    CV75 got a reaction from askandanswer in Question re mercy   
    I think the most merciful arrangement is reflected by 2 Nephi 25:23, "it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do." I think this phrase encompasses the principle that Christ saves us (i.e., enables us to become like Him, free of sin and death), by His Atonement on one hand, and by our doing in faith all He gave us to do on the other hand. What He gives us to do is quite a bit less than what He did, which aligns with our intelligence per Abraham 3:19, but which grows and grows unto the perfect day.
  20. Thanks
    CV75 reacted to laronius in Tree of Life   
    One of the views expressed in this article (https://rsc.byu.edu/ascending-mountain-lord/tree-knowledge-veil-sanctuary) that was apparently held by at least some early Christians was that the tree of knowledge of good and evil was actually more of a hedge that encircled the tree of life and one must pass through this hedge or "veil" before you could access the tree of life. Or in other words, as I read it, one could not partake of the fruit of the tree of life without first acquiring the knowledge of good and evil first. Now whether that is how the garden was set up I don't know but I think that principle is still true and worth keeping in mind when studying this topic.
  21. Thanks
    CV75 got a reaction from Traveler in The Millennium   
    Yes, I think the scriptures and the Spirit work together to proclaim both literal and figurative descriptions as we ponder and act.
  22. Like
    CV75 reacted to Traveler in The Millennium   
    I have thought to respond - not so much to disagree but of offer some "different" perspectives.   We think of Eden as a specific place - but perhaps we should think of it as more of a type or kind of place - more along the lines of principles and glory.  In reference to glory, Eden is also known as 'Paradise" or the paradise of G-d.  With this in mind let us look at scripture - Article of Faith #10:
     
    My impression is that this revelation directly addresses the Millennium and the state of Glory that will define earth.  I believe that the reference to a "paradisiacal glory" is a direct comparison between the Millennium and the state of glory of Eden.   There are likely to be differences but from our current mortal view of paradisiacal glory - I do not think we know enough to be critical of differences.
    But there is something else that I have pondered - perhaps your view can help me understand better.  I have pondered why we should read and study scripture?  As I have pondered I am impressed that a goal of this life is not to read and study scripture but rather we read and study scripture to better understand what our goals in this life ought to be.  For example the Pharisees and Scribes had scriptures as their primary goals but Jesus admonished them that the purpose of the scriptures was to testify of him.  And Jesus Christ was talking directly to them.  I believe that it would have been better that they pay attention to Jesus rather than be experts in scripture.  It seems to me that the purpose of scripture is not to replace Christ but to prepare us to live with Christ and to be guided by the Holy Spirit.   My parents once counseled me that there are appropriate times in life to put away my scripture and act upon that which I had learned from them.  
     
    The Traveler
  23. Like
    CV75 got a reaction from romans8 in Tree of Life   
    Adam and Eve knew and partook of the tree of life first, so knowledge of just how good it is was not attained or appreciated until they partook of the tree of knowledge.
    I was saying that the fuller knowledge of just how good the tree of life was did not not come to them until after they partook of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, even by definition according to the names of the trees.
    I think they understandably felt a measure of trepidation and guilt at first, and that this escalated to a spiritually unhealthy level of fear and shame at the behest of the serpent. I take this from Genesis 3 where Adam does not answer the question of who told him he was naked (verse 11), but given that the serpent beguiled Eve, I believe he also coached them both to hide from the Lord by telling them it was shameful to be naked (which was also a lie in contrast to Genesis 2:25).
    Eventually their fear and shame after partaking of the tree of knowledge of good and evil was replaced with the hope of the Savior and the joy of repentance through His merits.
  24. Like
    CV75 got a reaction from Vort in All the transgender hullaballoo   
    I think the point of negation is when the companionship of the Holy Ghost is muted to the point of disunity with Zion, and where the covenants of the Restoration are avoided and broken. The Family Proclamation is a great guide for every family or any denomination or faith tradition.
  25. Like
    CV75 got a reaction from Backroads in All the transgender hullaballoo   
    I think the point of negation is when the companionship of the Holy Ghost is muted to the point of disunity with Zion, and where the covenants of the Restoration are avoided and broken. The Family Proclamation is a great guide for every family or any denomination or faith tradition.