CV75

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  1. Like
    CV75 got a reaction from Just_A_Guy in Depending on Non-LDS Sources for Gospel Doctrine   
    The first lesson in CFM this year was about taking responsibility for your own learning (including framing good questions). These questions should be asked in Sunday School. They are in my class. When there are no pat answers within the 50 minutes, some class member(s) might be inclined to follow up. I've had some good conversations with classmates as a result. I find the different academic/scholarly commentaries to be helpful for translation and context, but only Church resources have the correct doctrine. We all have the gift of the Holy Ghost and can decide on how to handle non-Church sources. Another perspective, even doctrinally speaking arising from translation and context, can lead to good questions and inspired answers that only support the Restored Gospel.
  2. Thanks
    CV75 got a reaction from scottyg in Depending on Non-LDS Sources for Gospel Doctrine   
    The first lesson in CFM this year was about taking responsibility for your own learning (including framing good questions). These questions should be asked in Sunday School. They are in my class. When there are no pat answers within the 50 minutes, some class member(s) might be inclined to follow up. I've had some good conversations with classmates as a result. I find the different academic/scholarly commentaries to be helpful for translation and context, but only Church resources have the correct doctrine. We all have the gift of the Holy Ghost and can decide on how to handle non-Church sources. Another perspective, even doctrinally speaking arising from translation and context, can lead to good questions and inspired answers that only support the Restored Gospel.
  3. Like
    CV75 got a reaction from RAB in The Shortening before the Baking   
    "Chapter 8: Matthew 24–25; Joseph Smith—Matthew (churchofjesuschrist.org):
    "Joseph Smith—Matthew 1:22; Matthew 24:24. “If Possible, They Shall Deceive the Very Elect”
    "Joseph Smith—Matthew 1:21–22 signals the transition from events associated with the destruction of Jerusalem to signs that will precede the Second Coming and the preparation the Saints must make to remain faithful during the last days. Many of the Savior’s warnings on the Mount of Olives were given to help the elect avoid being deceived during this time.
    "The phrase “if possible” suggests that if the elect are going to avoid being deceived, they must keep their covenants and hearken to the word of the Lord..."
    This particular verse concerns the abomination of desolation concerning the destruction of Jerusalem (See JS-Matthew 1:18). But also, the "desolation of abomination" is a more general principle in two ways: 1) the destruction of the wicked to prepare the world for the second coming (D&C 84:117) and 2) their final judgement (D&C 88:85). This can be accomplished through their voluntary repentance, or by their dispatch (D&C 43:25).
    To address you specific questions:
    The threat that practically dooms the elect if allowed to persist is our own human nature -- only the intervention of God can save us.
    These days are to be shortened by the Lord's intervention, since even the elect cannot stop it themselves. This is His plan.
    This is not a departure from the intended course of events, but an intervention against the natural course of events without the Lord. Jesus is the Elect (Isaiah 42:1; or the Chosen One) and it is for His, the elect's -- singular -- and those who are His (the elect's -- plural) sake that He intervenes. The elect is/are found on both side of the veil.
     
     
     
     
  4. Thanks
    CV75 got a reaction from Traveler in Helping others with doubts   
    Thank you for your remarks!
  5. Love
    CV75 got a reaction from Just_A_Guy in Helping others with doubts   
    Regarding others' spiritual experiences, I think we can only do our best and trust that God continues to reach out to them just as He has to us, whatever conclusions and applications they have drawn that differ from ours. God does not leave anyone exclusively to their own devices after one single spiritual experience.
    The spiritual witness that something is true isn't the same as the spiritual experience of who and what we are becoming. This is why regular/routine self -examination is so vital (as when we partake of the sacrament). Are we blessed, and a blessing to others? What kinds of people oppose us?
  6. Like
    CV75 got a reaction from laronius in Helping others with doubts   
    I think that what I posted is also President Nelson's counsel. This can be useful in discerning what constitutes "good information", how to handle and interpret it, and seek, obtain and keep personal revelation. "Come Follow Me" for example schools us in this approach.
    Typically, it is not the bad information per se, but an undisciplined reaction to it that throws people off. For example, do you want to believe that Joseph Smith lied to Emma, or do you want to believe that thirty-somethings can have complicated pressures and relationships we are not privy to, and that the historical record is not complete enough to prove malfeasance? People have to know their limitations, that they are no more equipped to evaluate private histories than Joseph was in handling new doctrines.
  7. Like
    CV75 reacted to The Folk Prophet in Helping others with doubts   
    It can...but it's not key. And, frankly, it runs the risk of the whole meat before milk thing. The milk is testimony. Explanations are useless without that testimony.
    At the risk of sounding patronizing, I have to refer to the process whereby we have been taught to know of the truth of the gospel. Read the Book of Mormon, ponder it, and get on one's knees, seeking the truth from God with humility and faith. None of the other stuff, ultimately, really matters. I mean it can help for certain people in certain situations. But it will never actually be key to knowing God. There is only one key to knowing God. That is the witness of the Holy Spirit. That is the means we are to find and know God and His truth on this earth. Therefore, the best we can do is what guides others to follow that path. 
  8. Like
    CV75 got a reaction from JohnsonJones in Helping others with doubts   
    Regarding others' spiritual experiences, I think we can only do our best and trust that God continues to reach out to them just as He has to us, whatever conclusions and applications they have drawn that differ from ours. God does not leave anyone exclusively to their own devices after one single spiritual experience.
    The spiritual witness that something is true isn't the same as the spiritual experience of who and what we are becoming. This is why regular/routine self -examination is so vital (as when we partake of the sacrament). Are we blessed, and a blessing to others? What kinds of people oppose us?
  9. Like
    CV75 got a reaction from JohnsonJones in Helping others with doubts   
    I see you reacted to my post, and so I will go out on a limb here and hopefully offer something useful!
    I see the “rock of revelation” as internal and personal, and the “foundation of apostles and prophets” as external and organizational. Fallibility is a given for each except from the One giving both the personal and organizational revelation. The idea is that God’s work, individually and collectively, progresses from the worst and lowest beginning(s) imaginable to the highest fulfillment. I see it being accomplished as follows:
    2 Nephi 9 discusses the atonement of God, mercy (love) and justice (law) at great length. Mercy comes first, in that God’s fondest desire is that we become like Him, and so His atonement was established first, before the foundation of the world. Within that overarching structure, He places progressive laws which we choose to obey or not.
    This allows Him to be patient with our fallibility while things get better over time and justifies His expectation that we adhere to the two great commandments as He does. I think this helps keep our fallible moral, ethical and semantic expectations and priorities in perspective, secondary to the still, small voice and His patience with our attending to it in keeping the two simple commandments as He does.
  10. Like
    CV75 got a reaction from MrShorty in Helping others with doubts   
    Yes, if that is the nature of their tension as they perceive and feel it. I think tension is a built-in necessity for a probationary state, and is inherent with all forms of opposition, both adversarial and complementary. Sometimes the tension is between logic and spiritual feelings, maturity and inexperience, bias and openess, etc.
  11. Like
    CV75 got a reaction from MrShorty in Helping others with doubts   
    I see you reacted to my post, and so I will go out on a limb here and hopefully offer something useful!
    I see the “rock of revelation” as internal and personal, and the “foundation of apostles and prophets” as external and organizational. Fallibility is a given for each except from the One giving both the personal and organizational revelation. The idea is that God’s work, individually and collectively, progresses from the worst and lowest beginning(s) imaginable to the highest fulfillment. I see it being accomplished as follows:
    2 Nephi 9 discusses the atonement of God, mercy (love) and justice (law) at great length. Mercy comes first, in that God’s fondest desire is that we become like Him, and so His atonement was established first, before the foundation of the world. Within that overarching structure, He places progressive laws which we choose to obey or not.
    This allows Him to be patient with our fallibility while things get better over time and justifies His expectation that we adhere to the two great commandments as He does. I think this helps keep our fallible moral, ethical and semantic expectations and priorities in perspective, secondary to the still, small voice and His patience with our attending to it in keeping the two simple commandments as He does.
  12. Like
    CV75 got a reaction from MrShorty in Helping others with doubts   
    We can stay close to the Spirit so that we know what to say to the honest seeker of truth who has some doubts, and when and how to say it.
  13. Thanks
    CV75 got a reaction from romans8 in The broken and scattered branches   
    Both. The geographical location of each individual person's inheritance will be based on what they will be asked to do during the Millennium. So, for example, there will be some from the tribe of Judah with inheritances in Israel, and some living elsewhere. Eventually the entire earth will come together into one land mass again, and all the covenant people will be resurrected members of the Church of the Firstborn -- kind of a post-inheritance inheritance.
  14. Haha
    CV75 reacted to askandanswer in Cursing and colouring   
    I know exactly what it is - it's the second book in the New Testament. 
  15. Thanks
    CV75 got a reaction from askandanswer in Cursing and colouring   
    For the sake of discussion, “mark” can be used as a synonym for “curse.” This is especially so for ancient religions where marks were used to cast as well as signify spells, hexes and curses. The same for blessings; for example: “Behold, I have graven [marked] thee upon the palms of my hands…” Likewise, “according” does not mean “caused by” or “the same”, but rather “corresponding.” So, we have: “And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, [corresponding, answering] to the [curse] which was set upon their fathers…” This allows the event of coloring the skin to follow, or answer, the event of the mark or the curse God pronounces, which follows rebellion, as occurred in Alma 3:18: “Now the Amlicites knew not that they were fulfilling the words of God when they began to mark themselves in their foreheads [third event]; nevertheless they had come out in open rebellion against God [first event]; therefore it was expedient that the curse should fall upon them [second event].
  16. Like
    CV75 got a reaction from Anddenex in Cursing and colouring   
    For the sake of discussion, “mark” can be used as a synonym for “curse.” This is especially so for ancient religions where marks were used to cast as well as signify spells, hexes and curses. The same for blessings; for example: “Behold, I have graven [marked] thee upon the palms of my hands…” Likewise, “according” does not mean “caused by” or “the same”, but rather “corresponding.” So, we have: “And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, [corresponding, answering] to the [curse] which was set upon their fathers…” This allows the event of coloring the skin to follow, or answer, the event of the mark or the curse God pronounces, which follows rebellion, as occurred in Alma 3:18: “Now the Amlicites knew not that they were fulfilling the words of God when they began to mark themselves in their foreheads [third event]; nevertheless they had come out in open rebellion against God [first event]; therefore it was expedient that the curse should fall upon them [second event].
  17. Like
    CV75 got a reaction from LDSGator in Cursing and colouring   
    For the sake of discussion, “mark” can be used as a synonym for “curse.” This is especially so for ancient religions where marks were used to cast as well as signify spells, hexes and curses. The same for blessings; for example: “Behold, I have graven [marked] thee upon the palms of my hands…” Likewise, “according” does not mean “caused by” or “the same”, but rather “corresponding.” So, we have: “And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, [corresponding, answering] to the [curse] which was set upon their fathers…” This allows the event of coloring the skin to follow, or answer, the event of the mark or the curse God pronounces, which follows rebellion, as occurred in Alma 3:18: “Now the Amlicites knew not that they were fulfilling the words of God when they began to mark themselves in their foreheads [third event]; nevertheless they had come out in open rebellion against God [first event]; therefore it was expedient that the curse should fall upon them [second event].
  18. Like
    CV75 got a reaction from mordorbund in Lehi's vision of the tree   
    You have gotten a number of replies -- what remains your most important question about 1 Nephi 8, or more broadly, about Lehi's and Nephi's visions of the tree of life?
  19. Like
    CV75 got a reaction from Vort in Lehi's vision of the tree   
    You have gotten a number of replies -- what remains your most important question about 1 Nephi 8, or more broadly, about Lehi's and Nephi's visions of the tree of life?
  20. Like
    CV75 got a reaction from Backroads in Provident living vs living the law of consecration and church welfare   
    I think provident, self-reliant living, and giving to the Church and relying upon "it" (more accurately, the Lord) are aspects of abiding in the companionship of the Holy Ghost.
  21. Thanks
    CV75 got a reaction from askandanswer in Helaman 12:4   
    I find the difference is that the earth and the dust thereof are not in a carnal state (Mosiah 4: 2) and align with the Lord’s will for them. He uses the dust to create us (Mosiah 2:25-26), and then gives us our agency to do what we will while we are connected with it (D&C 93:33), though it continues to belong to Him. Hence the great sin in our misuse of the dust of the earth concerning our own bodies, those of others, our material stewardships, and all other physical matters that are found in this second estate.
  22. Like
    CV75 got a reaction from askandanswer in Helaman 12:4   
    "What is it about men and their agency that so consistently leads them to act in this manner...?" They are simply less intelligent than Christ, the only one who would not act in this manner.
    "...what are the likely benefits of that particular design feature?" We are designed to progress, from whatever level of intelligence from which we begin, through the merits of Christ. I like the phrase in verse 22, "among all these there were many of the noble and great ones" because it indicates that not all the noble and great ones had yet arrived at this level of goodness to rule but would yet arrive in due course.
  23. Like
    CV75 got a reaction from askandanswer in Where are the 12 Tribes?   
    !!! I was just reading in Amos 9:
    3 And though they ahide themselves in the top of Carmel, I will search and take them out thence; and though they be hid from my sight in the bottom of the sea, thence will I command the serpent, and he shall bite them:
     
  24. Like
    CV75 got a reaction from laronius in Creation and Knowledge   
    If “created” means “organized” and “day” refers to a period of time, there was a day in the first estate and a day in the second estate, and, to paraphrase Alma 40:8, “…all [are not created] at once, and this mattereth not; all is as one day with God, and time only is measured unto men.” So, when we are organized at any stage along the plan of salvation, and according to our personal development, we receive knowledge from God (this is progress). We may have a Veil over some of it, but we have it. One key point in which we, as the human, were given knowledge was when Adam and Eve were organized as a couple and given commandments; before that, when Adam was organized in the flesh and given commandments. Before that, they were organized as part of God's family of spirit children, and Adam had knowledge to fulfill his role in the war in heaven. All the children of God follow this pattern or organization and receiving knowledge.
  25. Like
    CV75 got a reaction from JohnsonJones in Praying to Jesus   
    I think the formal pattern of prayer that is set for the Restored Church in dispensation of the fulness of times) (which reflects the pattern set by Jesus) is understandably "crisper" than a desperate sinner or those, having the Spirit instructing them on what to say and how to say it in the physical presence of He who is already speaking and interacting with them directly.